Ebook Membership - Page 2

Maggie Leung · 02-03-2011, 03:00 PM

I don't see this working either. I think the question is whether you can convince your professor. Better hope he/she doesn't ask too many questions and doesn't know anything about e-reading. If it's not too late, I would try to come up with another business idea.

ProfCrash · 02-03-2011, 03:01 PM

I would suggest that you look at Netflix as a model. People can have a certain number of books downloaded at a given time. To download a new book, they have to return an old book.

And there is no way I would pay $30 for such a service. I could buy at least three books a month for that price. Nevermind all the free books that I can already download.

queentess · 02-03-2011, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

I would suggest that you look at Netflix as a model. People can have a certain number of books downloaded at a given time. To download a new book, they have to return an old book.

And there is no way I would pay $30 for such a service. I could buy at least three books a month for that price. Nevermind all the free books that I can already download.

My public library does ebook lending in this manner, and I only pay for that with my taxes

I believe the restrictions are up to 10 books checked out, and beyond that you have to check some back in to get more. But that functionality takes DRM, and then you have to worry about the different flavors of DRM and how they work (or don't work) with devices.

The problems with my library's ebooks is there isn't a lot of selection (at least in the genres I read). But I seem to recall there are some publishers who won't even allow their books on the OverDrive service.

ProfCrash · 02-03-2011, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by queentess

My public library does ebook lending in this manner, and I only pay for that with my taxes

I believe the restrictions are up to 10 books checked out, and beyond that you have to check some back in to get more. But that functionality takes DRM, and then you have to worry about the different flavors of DRM and how they work (or don't work) with devices.

The problems with my library's ebooks is there isn't a lot of selection (at least in the genres I read). But I seem to recall there are some publishers who won't even allow their books on the OverDrive service.

True but the library service for many folks has been far from ideal. I'll let the OP do some research and figure out what the problems are and how their service might be able to address them but I do think that such a service could work.

vrodbrad · 02-03-2011, 03:21 PM

Thank you queentess, for bringing up all the great points. We are in the beginning stages of writing our business plan so we have a lot of work. My instructor is real picky on making sure that we do our research. So you are right we will probably have a hard time with it but hey we will learn stuff that we did not know before. Making a Business Plan is hard to do that I am finding out. I too don't know if it would be actually feasible or not with ebook sells expected be over a billion dollars for 2011 is what I had read a couple of weeks ago. you have a good day time for me to go to class.

Brad

queentess · 02-03-2011, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

True but the library service for many folks has been far from ideal. I'll let the OP do some research and figure out what the problems are and how their service might be able to address them but I do think that such a service could work.

Yeah, especially depending on where you live. From what I can gather, Australians would love to have an ebook lending library. I hear the hoops they jump through to get access to some ebooks, plus the pricing on pbooks... I'd never survive there

You are more optimistic than I!

kbrand · 02-04-2011, 12:33 AM

I think it is a great idea. I think a better price would be between 10-15 dollars, but both Netflix, Rhapsady and Audible have made this work and it is just as easy to pirate movies, music and Audiobooks. Maybe have a few different membership levels like 1,2,3 books a month, or unlimited. I would be in for sure. Actually I am surprised this hasn't been started yet by Overdrive.

jhempel24 · 02-04-2011, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbrand

I think it is a great idea. I think a better price would be between 10-15 dollars, but both Netflix, Rhapsady and Audible have made this work and it is just as easy to pirate movies, music and Audiobooks. Maybe have a few different membership levels like 1,2,3 books a month, or unlimited. I would be in for sure. Actually I am surprised this hasn't been started yet by Overdrive.

I agree this would be a good place to start.

Say you pay $35 a month and get say 6 books per month to download for free, basing it on an average of $8 per book, that way you end up getting more for your money in most cases....the business gives the publishers their cut, and with enough subscriptions I bet could work a deal with the publishers so that they wouldn't charge them as much.

I know I would subscribe to something like that.

Belle2Be · 02-04-2011, 01:38 AM

If you wanted to do this, you would need to set up something very similar to Netflix business model.

You'd have to have a huge publisher go in with you to start, (such as Netflix has Starz). You'd have to find your "sweet spot" for the monthly fee, which I guarantee you will not be $30. More like $10. You would need it to be more of a rental situation, rather than a buying situation, where for $10 you get 1 book, when you are done with that book you delete or send it back (virtually, of course) or something along those lines.*
You can also offer the free books (to keep) along with several of your publishers books free to keep. That's basically what the $10 is covering. You would have to limit the books at the $10, but maybe you could make it a sliding scale, 4 books for $10, 10 for $20, or 21 for $30 etc.

*You would have to engineer something stronger than DRM to keep the file from being transferred to ones hard-drive or whatever. It'll happen anyway.
Anyway, thats how *I* would do it. For a class, anyway. It would never work because you'll never be able to get publishers to agree to lose so much money. It isn't like TV, where you might see the Starz old seasons or shows on Netflix, then order Starz to see the new ones. You really don't have anything to offer the publisher for this endeavor.

dacattt · 02-04-2011, 01:47 AM

To jump in a bit late...

Even folks that are heaver readers, and 6 a month is still more than most will do, though we read in streaks and I'll down one a day. day and a half when it strikes, and then just do a couple of month... and these won't be the latest $8 books. They'll be a mix of re-reads of old paperbacks... I chew though old series. But I wait for paperback prices even on e-books, then read some public domain.

If it's read and return the same amount each month, not so likely.

On Netflix, a whole family can share one subscription, and they can watch while doing other things. Book reading is going to be more likely 1 or a couple.

A DVD is finished in aprox 2 hours. Books aren't.

vrodbrad · 02-04-2011, 07:48 AM

I am in agreement with that it needs to be done properly. The 29.99 was just a vague figure that I used so pricing would probably be lower. We don't want to a business model like netflix or one of the other ones for I don't like the idea of renting an ebook unless it is a textbook for school where the individual would not need the book anymore after their class. Below are figures We came up with using the 29.99 model with having 2500 members for the first year and adding another 2500 members the second year. These numbers are just hypothetical and I know I will get a lot of different advice, but as I said before I would rather have the advice then none at all for it will help my group to work things through.
Ebook Member ship 29.99 Per Month

First Year Second year Growth of 2500 More Members
Members Month Year Month Year
2,500.00 $74,975.00 $899,700.00 $149,950.00 $1,799,400.00

Ebook Membership 60.00 Per Quarter

First Year Second year Growth of 2500 More Members
Members QTR Year Month Year
2500 $150,000.00 $600,000.00 $25,000.00 $1,200,000.00

Ebook Membership Yearly 250.00

First Year Second year Growth of 2500 More Members
Members Month Year Month Year
2500 $52,083.33 $625,000.00 $104,166.67 $1,250,000.00

Ebook Membership Life time 350.00

First Year Second year Growth of 2500 More Members Total
Members Month Year Month Year
2500 $72,916.67 $875,000.00 $145,833.33 $1,750,000.00
Sorry about the formatting when I copied it onto here, the second year ammount is falling under the first year.

ficbot · 02-04-2011, 09:22 AM

I still think your issue is not how you price it, but rather what content you can get. I don't see publishers going in on something like this AT ALL when so many of them still won't sell the book in e-form at a full, retail price. And there are the geographical restriction issues, which is a contract thing and can't be fixed so easily...

I'm sorry, I just think this is a doomed idea, and worrying about what price you will charge for it is totally the wrong thing to focus on.

Andrew H. · 02-04-2011, 10:58 AM

Instead of Netflix, I think that the model you should look at is the audible model.
Don't offer every book; offer, say 5,000 (or 10,000; I don't know) carefully selected books that are popular and cross genres. (But make sure you have complete series).

Maybe you charge $15.95/month to be able to download two books/month, and $20.95/month for three. (This would be at a 20% and 30% discount from a nominal $10 price). People would be able to keep the books (it's much simpler that way, and I think people want to keep books). You can earn extra revenue by selling books to members (at a discount) or to non-members (for more, but really as a way to get subscribers).

The biggest problem with the business plan, of course, is that selling books has a razor thin margin, and you are competing directly against Amazon's and B&N's existing model. If you can't beat Amazon's price, selection, or convenience (and I'm not at all sure that anyone can), how will you make any money. (Note that the agency agreement prevents publishers selling through any competitor at a lower price than they sell through Amazon).

Note that pricing is the issue: it's easy to make any business plan work if you can make up the prices - i.e, it's easy to compete against Amazon on paper by coming up with a plan to sell bestsellers at $1 apiece. But of course Amazon spends huge amounts of time making sure that they price as low as possible.

I'm not sure where you are in your project, but if you have time to come up with a new business plan, I would try to make one that doesn't compete so directly with Amazon in their core market

Penforhire · 02-04-2011, 11:09 AM

I've been suggesting a subscription model since I first started e-reading. But your price is WAY off for anyone who doesn't read full-time or doesn't buy at 'hardcover' prices. Assuming you offer some selection of current titles, I'm thinking $9.99 a month is the breakpoint right now (look at Netflix for an example of that in action).

Belle2Be · 02-04-2011, 12:28 PM

You might want to add a poll, I know I wouldn't pay 20 or 30 bucks for 3 to 5 e-books.

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02-03-2011, 03:00 PM	#16
Maggie Leung Wizard Posts: 1,449 Karma: 58383 Join Date: Jul 2009 Device: Kindle, iPad	I don't see this working either. I think the question is whether you can convince your professor. Better hope he/she doesn't ask too many questions and doesn't know anything about e-reading. If it's not too late, I would try to come up with another business idea.

02-03-2011, 03:01 PM	#17
ProfCrash Tea Enthusiast Posts: 8,554 Karma: 75384937 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Somewhere in the USA Device: Kindle1, Kindle DX Graphite, K3 3G, IPad 3, PW2	I would suggest that you look at Netflix as a model. People can have a certain number of books downloaded at a given time. To download a new book, they have to return an old book. And there is no way I would pay $30 for such a service. I could buy at least three books a month for that price. Nevermind all the free books that I can already download.

02-03-2011, 03:21 PM	#20
vrodbrad Member Posts: 15 Karma: 10 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: sony prs 350	Thank you queentess, for bringing up all the great points. We are in the beginning stages of writing our business plan so we have a lot of work. My instructor is real picky on making sure that we do our research. So you are right we will probably have a hard time with it but hey we will learn stuff that we did not know before. Making a Business Plan is hard to do that I am finding out. I too don't know if it would be actually feasible or not with ebook sells expected be over a billion dollars for 2011 is what I had read a couple of weeks ago. you have a good day time for me to go to class. Brad

02-04-2011, 12:33 AM	#22
kbrand Enthusiast Posts: 28 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jun 2010 Device: Sony 300	I think it is a great idea. I think a better price would be between 10-15 dollars, but both Netflix, Rhapsady and Audible have made this work and it is just as easy to pirate movies, music and Audiobooks. Maybe have a few different membership levels like 1,2,3 books a month, or unlimited. I would be in for sure. Actually I am surprised this hasn't been started yet by Overdrive.

02-04-2011, 01:38 AM	#24
Belle2Be Peace, Love, and Books Posts: 355 Karma: 1242738 Join Date: Sep 2010 Device: Kindle 3(3g), NookColor	If you wanted to do this, you would need to set up something very similar to Netflix business model. You'd have to have a huge publisher go in with you to start, (such as Netflix has Starz). You'd have to find your "sweet spot" for the monthly fee, which I guarantee you will not be $30. More like $10. You would need it to be more of a rental situation, rather than a buying situation, where for $10 you get 1 book, when you are done with that book you delete or send it back (virtually, of course) or something along those lines.* You can also offer the free books (to keep) along with several of your publishers books free to keep. That's basically what the $10 is covering. You would have to limit the books at the $10, but maybe you could make it a sliding scale, 4 books for $10, 10 for $20, or 21 for $30 etc. You would have to engineer something stronger than DRM to keep the file from being transferred to ones hard-drive or whatever. It'll happen anyway. Anyway, thats how I* would do it. For a class, anyway. It would never work because you'll never be able to get publishers to agree to lose so much money. It isn't like TV, where you might see the Starz old seasons or shows on Netflix, then order Starz to see the new ones. You really don't have anything to offer the publisher for this endeavor.

02-04-2011, 01:47 AM	#25
dacattt Connoisseur Posts: 51 Karma: 3102 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Los Angeles Device: Astak 6 EZ Reader Plus	To jump in a bit late... Even folks that are heaver readers, and 6 a month is still more than most will do, though we read in streaks and I'll down one a day. day and a half when it strikes, and then just do a couple of month... and these won't be the latest $8 books. They'll be a mix of re-reads of old paperbacks... I chew though old series. But I wait for paperback prices even on e-books, then read some public domain. If it's read and return the same amount each month, not so likely. On Netflix, a whole family can share one subscription, and they can watch while doing other things. Book reading is going to be more likely 1 or a couple. A DVD is finished in aprox 2 hours. Books aren't.

02-04-2011, 07:48 AM	#26
vrodbrad Member Posts: 15 Karma: 10 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: sony prs 350	I am in agreement with that it needs to be done properly. The 29.99 was just a vague figure that I used so pricing would probably be lower. We don't want to a business model like netflix or one of the other ones for I don't like the idea of renting an ebook unless it is a textbook for school where the individual would not need the book anymore after their class. Below are figures We came up with using the 29.99 model with having 2500 members for the first year and adding another 2500 members the second year. These numbers are just hypothetical and I know I will get a lot of different advice, but as I said before I would rather have the advice then none at all for it will help my group to work things through. Ebook Member ship 29.99 Per Month First Year Second year Growth of 2500 More Members Members Month Year Month Year 2,500.00 $74,975.00 $899,700.00 $149,950.00 $1,799,400.00 Ebook Membership 60.00 Per Quarter First Year Second year Growth of 2500 More Members Members QTR Year Month Year 2500 $150,000.00 $600,000.00 $25,000.00 $1,200,000.00 Ebook Membership Yearly 250.00 First Year Second year Growth of 2500 More Members Members Month Year Month Year 2500 $52,083.33 $625,000.00 $104,166.67 $1,250,000.00 Ebook Membership Life time 350.00 First Year Second year Growth of 2500 More Members Total Members Month Year Month Year 2500 $72,916.67 $875,000.00 $145,833.33 $1,750,000.00 Sorry about the formatting when I copied it onto here, the second year ammount is falling under the first year.

02-04-2011, 09:22 AM	#27
ficbot Wizard Posts: 2,409 Karma: 4132096 Join Date: Sep 2008 Device: Kindle Paperwhite/iOS Kindle App	I still think your issue is not how you price it, but rather what content you can get. I don't see publishers going in on something like this AT ALL when so many of them still won't sell the book in e-form at a full, retail price. And there are the geographical restriction issues, which is a contract thing and can't be fixed so easily... I'm sorry, I just think this is a doomed idea, and worrying about what price you will charge for it is totally the wrong thing to focus on.

02-04-2011, 10:58 AM	#28
Andrew H. Grand Master of Flowers Posts: 2,201 Karma: 8389072 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Naptown Device: Kindle PW, Kindle 3 (aka Keyboard), iPhone, iPad 3 (not for reading)	Instead of Netflix, I think that the model you should look at is the audible model. Don't offer every book; offer, say 5,000 (or 10,000; I don't know) carefully selected books that are popular and cross genres. (But make sure you have complete series). Maybe you charge $15.95/month to be able to download two books/month, and $20.95/month for three. (This would be at a 20% and 30% discount from a nominal $10 price). People would be able to keep the books (it's much simpler that way, and I think people want to keep books). You can earn extra revenue by selling books to members (at a discount) or to non-members (for more, but really as a way to get subscribers). The biggest problem with the business plan, of course, is that selling books has a razor thin margin, and you are competing directly against Amazon's and B&N's existing model. If you can't beat Amazon's price, selection, or convenience (and I'm not at all sure that anyone can), how will you make any money. (Note that the agency agreement prevents publishers selling through any competitor at a lower price than they sell through Amazon). Note that pricing is the issue: it's easy to make any business plan work if you can make up the prices - i.e, it's easy to compete against Amazon on paper by coming up with a plan to sell bestsellers at $1 apiece. But of course Amazon spends huge amounts of time making sure that they price as low as possible. I'm not sure where you are in your project, but if you have time to come up with a new business plan, I would try to make one that doesn't compete so directly with Amazon in their core market

02-04-2011, 11:09 AM	#29
Penforhire Wizard Posts: 2,230 Karma: 7145404 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern California Device: Kindle Voyage & iPhone 7+	I've been suggesting a subscription model since I first started e-reading. But your price is WAY off for anyone who doesn't read full-time or doesn't buy at 'hardcover' prices. Assuming you offer some selection of current titles, I'm thinking $9.99 a month is the breakpoint right now (look at Netflix for an example of that in action).

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02-04-2011, 12:28 PM	#30
Belle2Be Peace, Love, and Books Posts: 355 Karma: 1242738 Join Date: Sep 2010 Device: Kindle 3(3g), NookColor	You might want to add a poll, I know I wouldn't pay 20 or 30 bucks for 3 to 5 e-books.