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Old 06-28-2020, 10:28 AM   #33751
BetterRed
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Red:

We already have Teamwork PM. When I switched over to it, in 2011, we thought "oh, boy the clients will love this! they can log in, see the tasks/milestones, leave messages on the messaging (email) system, upload files, etc." Right? EASY-PEASY, right?

Frack no. Within a year, we revised the entire system, so that now, it's all email all the time. We changed it so that the customers can simply send emails to the dedicated email address for the project, (e.g., "LovesSavageFury@messages.teamwork.com") and send files to the files section by the simple expedient of attaching them thereto (or use our dedicated WeTransfer account). Why?

Because they carried on like we stabbed them. "This is too complicated!" "oh, no, I can't deal with all those tabs, I don't know what to do!" (And on and on and on...). Believe me, we tried how-tos, videos...NOTHING worked.

We have PDF handouts, for everything. I have FAQs that could be published books in and of themselves. Online, in PDF format...canned replies...

God, I wish it had. But noooooooooooooooooooo.

Hitch
Oh no, I wasn't suggesting Confluence and Slack for you and your authors.

But writers who co-author works might take to it between themselves. My legal writer pals don't get the 'editors' involved in Confluence and Slack - i.e legislators and their lackeys, many of whom can barely use a 2B pencil.

I came across Confluence/Slack at an animation studio where I do some pro-bono work - they collaborate with people scattered hither and thither.

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Old 06-28-2020, 01:13 PM   #33752
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Oh no, I wasn't suggesting Confluence and Slack for you and your authors.

But writers who co-author works might take to it between themselves. My legal writer pals don't get the 'editors' involved in Confluence and Slack - i.e legislators and their lackeys, many of whom can barely use a 2B pencil.

I came across Confluence/Slack at an animation studio where I do some pro-bono work - they collaborate with people scattered hither and thither.

BR
LOL, actually, in all these years and clients, we've never run into a problem like that, at least, not at our end. By the time a co-authored book shows up on OUR doorstep, all of that bit is done. Thank GOD. If I had to navigate the stormy waters between co-authors, WELL. That might be the straw.

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Old 06-28-2020, 01:57 PM   #33753
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LOL, actually, in all these years and clients, we've never run into a problem like that, at least, not at our end. By the time a co-authored book shows up on OUR doorstep, all of that bit is done. Thank GOD. If I had to navigate the stormy waters between co-authors, WELL. That might be the straw.
Decades back, I had a neighbor who was an architectural consultant and building contractor. (He had his degree in architecture, but the regulations in the state of Pennsylvania required you to work for an accredited architectural firm as an associate for seven years before you could hang out your own shingle. He chose not to, and became a GC instead.)

He recounted an issue he had. He was working for a Quaker group on a project. The group's custom was that they all got together and collectively discussed issues and came to a consensus. When you are doing construction, there may not be time for that gathering. The GC needs an answer now. His wife ran into a member of the group at the supermarket, who asked "Does your husband beat you?" "No! He's a pussycat! Why do you ask?" "He's so nasty to us!" Frustration will do that to you...

I told him there was a simple solution. Next time he worked with a group like that, one of his contract stipulations was that the group designate one of their number as his contact, with the authority to make decisions on behalf of the group, to handle precisely those cases where they couldn't all get together to talk about it first. If they wouldn't agree to that, he would not take the job.

If I were you and had to deal with co-authors, I'd do something similar. "One of you gets to be my point of contact. I don't care how you choose which of you it is - cut cards, draw straws, rock-paper-scissors - but pick one!"
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Old 06-28-2020, 02:54 PM   #33754
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Originally Posted by DMcCunney View Post
Decades back, I had a neighbor who was an architectural consultant and building contractor. (He had his degree in architecture, but the regulations in the state of Pennsylvania required you to work for an accredited architectural firm as an associate for seven years before you could hang out your own shingle. He chose not to, and became a GC instead.)

He recounted an issue he had. He was working for a Quaker group on a project. The group's custom was that they all got together and collectively discussed issues and came to a consensus. When you are doing construction, there may not be time for that gathering. The GC needs an answer now. His wife ran into a member of the group at the supermarket, who asked "Does your husband beat you?" "No! He's a pussycat! Why do you ask?" "He's so nasty to us!" Frustration will do that to you...

I told him there was a simple solution. Next time he worked with a group like that, one of his contract stipulations was that the group designate one of their number as his contact, with the authority to make decisions on behalf of the group, to handle precisely those cases where they couldn't all get together to talk about it first. If they wouldn't agree to that, he would not take the job.

If I were you and had to deal with co-authors, I'd do something similar. "One of you gets to be my point of contact. I don't care how you choose which of you it is - cut cards, draw straws, rock-paper-scissors - but pick one!"
______
Dennis
Yes, we actually do that. While we don't get a lot of co-authors, thank heavens, we do seem to get a lot of "book shepherds" or "publishing consultants" and their customers. In fact, I have a scenario right now in which we quoted and billed (and were paid by) the publishing consultant; the author and the publishing consultant have now parted ways and the author wishes to continue with us.

We'd already had an edit done on his book; the author went through and completely rewrote it and the two parted company over "editorial differences." (Oy vey, as they say). So, now, we'll deal with the author.

But Book Shepherds and PC's that come to us get a discounted rate. Magically, they'll disappear, halfway through, leaving us with the "needs handholding client" at the aforementioned discounted rate. I'm still working on terms in our T&C to deal with that sort of stunt.

Man, if it's not one thing, it's another.

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Old 06-28-2020, 03:50 PM   #33755
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Yes, we actually do that. While we don't get a lot of co-authors, thank heavens, we do seem to get a lot of "book shepherds" or "publishing consultants" and their customers. In fact, I have a scenario right now in which we quoted and billed (and were paid by) the publishing consultant; the author and the publishing consultant have now parted ways and the author wishes to continue with us.

We'd already had an edit done on his book; the author went through and completely rewrote it and the two parted company over "editorial differences." (Oy vey, as they say). So, now, we'll deal with the author.
A woman I know elsewhere posted a query to a mailing list I'm in that is mostly people in publishing. She wanted to know the protocol for severing a relationship with an agent.

She had written a mystery. An agent expressed interest and agreed to represent her. The agent requested a rewrite to "spice up" the book. She complied. Then the agent requested another rewrite to turn it into a spicy romance with a mystery setting. Had the agent simply requested that in the first place, instead of it being a second total rewrite, things would have been simpler. My contact could either say "If you can sell it in that form I'll do it.", or "No. That's not the kind of book I'm trying to write."

I told her if she and her agent couldn't even agree on what kind of book she was writing, it was time to tell her you no longer wished her to represent you, and part company. She did, and the last I knew had discovered the joys of self-publishing.

Quote:
But Book Shepherds and PC's that come to us get a discounted rate. Magically, they'll disappear, halfway through, leaving us with the "needs handholding client" at the aforementioned discounted rate. I'm still working on terms in our T&C to deal with that sort of stunt.
It may be that your terms need to specify that your contract is with them, the packager, not the author they are shepherding. Should the author part company with them but want to continue with you, a different contract will be required and different rates will apply.
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Old 06-28-2020, 06:59 PM   #33756
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@Dennis - do you know if your architect friend did any more work for Quakers?

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Old 06-28-2020, 07:16 PM   #33757
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@Dennis - do you know if your architect friend did any more work for Quakers?
I have no idea. But it was the 70's, and I moved up to NYC not long after and lost touch.

He was a socially conscious type, and liked working for groups he saw as socially conscious. I had another interesting conversation with him where he talked about articles he contributed to local publications on good, simple, low cost stuff you could do for things like insulating your dwelling. He was conflicted about mentioning he was a trained architect and building contractor. I told him he should absolutely mention those things. They were certification of expertise, and that he did in fact know what he was talking about because it was what he did for a living.

That I had to tell him that was a source of bemused wonder.
______
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Old 06-30-2020, 04:10 PM   #33758
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Is it so much to expect that a soda called Coke Ginger Lime would actually have some ginger/lime flavors? Even fake ones? This is Coke in a green can.
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Old 07-01-2020, 07:31 AM   #33759
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R U sure it was Ginger Lime and not Finger Lime, they can be green ==>> Citrus australasica

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Old 07-01-2020, 08:35 AM   #33760
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A woman I know elsewhere posted a query to a mailing list I'm in that is mostly people in publishing. She wanted to know the protocol for severing a relationship with an agent.

She had written a mystery. An agent expressed interest and agreed to represent her. The agent requested a rewrite to "spice up" the book. She complied. Then the agent requested another rewrite to turn it into a spicy romance with a mystery setting. Had the agent simply requested that in the first place, instead of it being a second total rewrite, things would have been simpler. My contact could either say "If you can sell it in that form I'll do it.", or "No. That's not the kind of book I'm trying to write."

I told her if she and her agent couldn't even agree on what kind of book she was writing, it was time to tell her you no longer wished her to represent you, and part company. She did, and the last I knew had discovered the joys of self-publishing.
The wonder, following up on your last post (the one after this) is that you had to TELL her to part company. Of course, I do understand that it's not simple to find an agent that will rep you and her reluctance to let go would be enormous.


Quote:
It may be that your terms need to specify that your contract is with them, the packager, not the author they are shepherding. Should the author part company with them but want to continue with you, a different contract will be required and different rates will apply.
______
Dennis
Yeah. Book shepherds "take the money and run," fairly often. Not all the time, but enough where even hearing the phrase tempts me to be immature and eye roll.

The guy I'm talking about, Mr. "Editorial Differences," never presented as a Shepherd; he said he was a "publisher" and had been, yadda. Our first book with him was a damned nightmare. He knew NOTHING. I mean...publisher? He was worse than half the new authors we get.

For example, he asked us to "make an index." I gave him the list of index-creation options and he seemed thunderstruck that it would cost money to have an indexer read the book and create the index. He said "I thought you just pushed a button in Word and it made it for you." What, through that 25th-Century artificial intelligence, you mean? (Speaking of bloody eye rolls...).

Sure, I get that people who don't work in publishing of any kind, business or media, mightn't know that it takes a PERSON to make an index, but someone who claimed to be a publisher? What the holy frack? You push a button and magic happens?

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Name:	d6e754d24aaef324c1595e68583ace7a.jpg
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ID:	180316(Thank you, Gary Larson; image courtesy of a Straight Dope post)

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Who needs to bloody retire.
Grumble.

Last edited by pdurrant; 07-01-2020 at 09:04 AM.
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Old 07-01-2020, 05:33 PM   #33761
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Point of order! That cartoon is by Sidney Harris, not Gary Larson.

Either way, it's totally a propos!
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Old 07-01-2020, 06:48 PM   #33762
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Point of order! That cartoon is by Sidney Harris, not Gary Larson.

Either way, it's totally a propos!
DANG! Thank you for the correction. I've always thought it was Larson. DUH.

Nonetheless, yes, it totally is apropos.

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Old 07-04-2020, 09:14 PM   #33763
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SO....it's 110F and our power just went out. The neighborhood app indicates that others are out too. Dammit. Power co says it "should be" restored at 11:30PM tonight--in 5.5 hours from now. In our neck of the woods, this is the hottest time of the day, not noon. S**T!

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Old 07-04-2020, 09:42 PM   #33764
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SO....it's 110F and our power just went out. The neighborhood app indicates that others are out too. Dammit. Power co says it "should be" restored at 11:30PM tonight--in 5.5 hours from now. In our neck of the woods, this is the hottest time of the day, not noon. S**T!

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Time for a drive in an A/C car?
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Old 07-05-2020, 01:04 AM   #33765
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Time for a drive in an A/C car?
We have double-glazed windows and heavy-duty insulation, thick walls, etc. We just got the power back (4 hours) and the interior of the house only moved from 79F to 80F, but yup, it coulda been bad. :-)

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