Seriously thoughtful The Covid Vaccination Poll

[Gardenman]

Got my second shot of Moderna this afternoon. They say two weeks to take affect


update 4/7/21 - very sore arm this morning

[astrangerhere]

I am outside UNC waiting for my wife to get her first jab. I had my second last week.

[OtinG]

Originally Posted by Gardenman

Got my second shot of Moderna this afternoon. They say two weeks to take affect


update 4/7/21 - very sore arm this morning

They say that the 2nd shot of Pfizer and Moderna vaccines takes about two weeks to reach the full level of protection. Both are rated at around 100% effective at preventing a serious case of COVID-19 and/or death from it, but neither can guarantee the vaccinated person won’t get a lesser case of COVID-19. Fully vaccinated people are less likely to get a COVID-19 infection than non-vaccinated people, but they can still get it and can likely still be a carrier of it.

[OtinG]

Once again I’m totally embarrassed by, and angered at, some of my fellow Texans. Over the past few days they have basically held two major sporting events that were both packed shoulder to shoulder with fans, most of whom were not even wearing masks.

Baylor University hosted a watch party in their football stadium so students could watch the CB NCAA National Championship game. I seriously doubt very many of them have been vaccinated since they are so young that they are just now becoming eligible for vaccination. I get that this was their first chance at a national championship, which they did win, but was it so important to watch it en masse that they basically created a super-spreader event?

The Texas Rangers organization held its first full attendance of a game in its new stadium, and it was packed, and very few of those fans wore masks either. Ironically, just a few weeks ago I got my first vaccination shot in the new Rangers Ballpark. So it went from being a mega vaccination site to a super-spreader site that quickly!

Sadly, our state's political leaders don't care and have reopened our state against all medical and scientific logic. Buckle up kids, it is going to be a bumpy ride...

[4691mls]

Originally Posted by OtinG

Once again I’m totally embarrassed by, and angered at, some of my fellow Texans. Over the past few days they have basically held two major sporting events that were both packed shoulder to shoulder with fans, most of whom were not even wearing masks.

Baylor University hosted a watch party in their football stadium so students could watch the CB NCAA National Championship game. I seriously doubt very many of them have been vaccinated since they are so young that they are just now becoming eligible for vaccination. I get that this was their first chance at a national championship, which they did win, but was it so important to watch it en masse that they basically created a super-spreader event?

The Texas Rangers organization held its first full attendance of a game in its new stadium, and it was packed, and very few of those fans wore masks either. Ironically, just a few weeks ago I got my first vaccination shot in the new Rangers Ballpark. So it went from being a mega vaccination site to a super-spreader site that quickly!

Sadly, our state's political leaders don't care and have reopened our state against all medical and scientific logic. Buckle up kids, it is going to be a bumpy ride...

I wouldn't care too much if some of those people died with their Individual Rights intact. It's the fact that they are taking others with them that is so awful.

[4691mls]

I went to a neighboring state last week for my first shot because they opened up to more age groups sooner than my state. Appointments in my city have been hard to come by. But nearby counties in the next state are populated by people who don't want the vaccine (I've seen this in news articles and heard from someone who lives there) so I didn't feel like I was taking anybody's spot by going there.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by OtinG

Once again I’m totally embarrassed by, and angered at, some of my fellow Texans. Over the past few days they have basically held two major sporting events that were both packed shoulder to shoulder with fans, most of whom were not even wearing masks.

They may be about one month early in moving to big events. However, the days of big controlling government forcing people into lockdown are rapidly coming to an end.

Covid is bad (rapidly moving to "was bad"). The government made it worse by killing jobs, forcing small businesses to close, locking people away inside nursing homes to decline and die, etc. But we survived despite government actions, not because of them. Now we have the vaccine and very shortly everyone who wants to be vaccinated will have been given the chance. Once that occurs, there will be no more of this "control the population" stuff from government no matter how hard they try.

The recent large events in Texas were maybe a tad premature. However, enough people have already been vaccinated, including just about all of the high risk population, that the only people who might be negatively affected by these events are the people who attended. And that was their choice - if they suffer because of it, that's the result of their choice. I do not feel that many "innocent" people will be negatively affected. Let's hope that number is zero.

However, the gates are opening, and people are not going to stay locked inside and they're not going to continue wearing masks much longer. The government will try to scare us into doing exactly that with reports of "new variants" and such, but they will fail. At this point in time, where we are with the vaccinations, I view covid as being no worse than the seasonal flu. People get very sick and die from the flu every year. So it will be with covid. But covid's days as a planet-wide disaster pandemic are coming to their end.

I've been fully vaccinated, second shot was over a month ago. "They" say I should still avoid travel. But "they" can't tell me why. So I will travel. I recently had to fly for a funeral. Three planes total. Every one of them was packed to the gills. Every single seat was booked - window, aisle, middle. Evidently a lot of vaccinated people agree with me on questioning why we should not travel at this point.

[astrangerhere]

Originally Posted by haertig

They may be about one month early in moving to big events. However, the days of big controlling government forcing people into lockdown are rapidly coming to an end.

I don't really have the energy to respond to most of this, and much of it would be for the PR forum anyway, but the CDC is in fact not telling people not to travel. This is copied directly from the CDC:

CDC recommends delaying travel until you are fully vaccinated, because travel increases your chance of getting and spreading COVID-19. If you are not fully vaccinated and must travel, follow CDC’s recommendations for unvaccinated people traveling internationally or domestically.

Some people should not travel. People who are sick with symptoms of COVID-19, have recently tested positive for the virus that causes COVID-19, or have been exposed to a person with COVID-19 pose a very high risk to others during travel. This page gives advice on when and how long these people should postpone travel to avoid spreading infection.

[OtinG]

Originally Posted by haertig

They may be about one month early in moving to big events. However, the days of big controlling government forcing people into lockdown are rapidly coming to an end.

Covid is bad (rapidly moving to "was bad"). The government made it worse by killing jobs, forcing small businesses to close, locking people away inside nursing homes to decline and die, etc. But we survived despite government actions, not because of them. Now we have the vaccine and very shortly everyone who wants to be vaccinated will have been given the chance. Once that occurs, there will be no more of this "control the population" stuff from government no matter how hard they try.

The recent large events in Texas were maybe a tad premature. However, enough people have already been vaccinated, including just about all of the high risk population, that the only people who might be negatively affected by these events are the people who attended. And that was their choice - if they suffer because of it, that's the result of their choice. I do not feel that many "innocent" people will be negatively affected. Let's hope that number is zero.

However, the gates are opening, and people are not going to stay locked inside and they're not going to continue wearing masks much longer. The government will try to scare us into doing exactly that with reports of "new variants" and such, but they will fail. At this point in time, where we are with the vaccinations, I view covid as being no worse than the seasonal flu. People get very sick and die from the flu every year. So it will be with covid. But covid's days as a planet-wide disaster pandemic are coming to their end.

I've been fully vaccinated, second shot was over a month ago. "They" say I should still avoid travel. But "they" can't tell me why. So I will travel. I recently had to fly for a funeral. Three planes total. Every one of them was packed to the gills. Every single seat was booked - window, aisle, middle. Evidently a lot of vaccinated people agree with me on questioning why we should not travel at this point.

I'll just respond the way @astrangerhere did and say I won't bother to respond to most of your rant. I prefer to not get into the politics. But suffice it to say that you obviously don't follow the Mr. Spock thought wherein the "good of the many out weighs the good of the one." I'm sorry if businesses were inconvenienced by COVID-19, but I’m a heck of a lot more sorry for the families who have lost loved ones, and for those loved ones who suffered horrible deaths.

My parents and their generation grew up during the Great Depression and struggled to put food on the table for over a decade. Then Dad went off to fight WWII in the South Pacific for more than 3 years. He survived, but the war stole his soul, so to speak. And yet neither of them, nor any of my extended family who went through the same hardships of having their childhoods ruined and their young adulthoods horrendously interrupted ever complained even 1/1,000,000th as much as your rant does. Quite frankly, I'm tired of the rants...

[4691mls]

We do have to start opening up at some point. But masks and distancing are still a good idea as things open up. From what I saw on TV news, both were largely missing at one of those big sporting events.

As to the claim that "enough people have already been vaccinated": According to the CDC https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations only 19.4% of the total population and 24.9% of adults over 18 have been fully vaccinated.

Until every "innocent" person who wants a vaccine has gotten one, people going out in public without masks and distancing are still endangering others.

And yes, unvaccinated people can avoid going to huge sports events or the like. But this does not protect them from the other people who go to those events, catch the virus and bring it back to their home neighborhoods, workplaces, etc.

[Gardenman]

Originally Posted by 4691mls

I wouldn't care too much if some of those people died with their Individual Rights intact. It's the fact that they are taking others with them that is so awful.

I agree 100%

[issybird]

Moderator Notice
A post has been deleted. Members are reminded of both the need to be polite and the need to eschew partisan politics.

[twowheels]

Originally Posted by haertig

However, the gates are opening, and people are not going to stay locked inside and they're not going to continue wearing masks much longer. The government will try to scare us into doing exactly that with reports of "new variants" and such, but they will fail.

It's difficult, but I'm going to try to reply in a way that won't get me booted from this forum.

People who refuse to wear masks are s and are responsible for the deaths of thousands.

New variants are very much a real thing, and very much risk causing us to all start over again with a return of refer trailers full of bodies that can't be dealt with fast enough. The new variants have already mutated such that the vaccines and existing antibodies from recovered patients are not nearly as effective, and we're only a few more mutations away from being back at the start. These mass events only increase the likelihood of that happening -- if people weren't so darn #@$!$!##! and could be patient for just another few months we could get ahead of the virus and slow it enough to prevent that from happening.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by haertig

They may be about one month early in moving to big events. However, the days of big controlling government forcing people into lockdown are rapidly coming to an end.

Covid is bad (rapidly moving to "was bad"). The government made it worse by killing jobs, forcing small businesses to close, locking people away inside nursing homes to decline and die, etc. But we survived despite government actions, not because of them. Now we have the vaccine and very shortly everyone who wants to be vaccinated will have been given the chance. Once that occurs, there will be no more of this "control the population" stuff from government no matter how hard they try.

The recent large events in Texas were maybe a tad premature.

Sheesh. A "tad premature"? With the last update on vaccination percentage showing that 25-29% of Texans have received at least one shot (April 7 and April 8 numbers), are you really trying to push the belief that only the vaccinated were present in those crowds? Pull the other one, it's got bells! Really!

As for comparing COVID-19 to the flu? In 2018-2019 flu season, there were 34,200 deaths from influenza. 2019-2020 has 22,104 deaths. For COVID-19 in 2020/21 for a similar 12 month period, the number of deaths was 555,231. Hmmm.... 16 years worth of flu deaths in a single year using the 2019-2020 numbers which were around average for a 20 year period.

In the same period, Canada with a population of 37.8 million has 23,204 COVID-19 deaths from 1.03 million infections. If the USA at 328.2 million population had the same infection and death rates per million population, the number of deaths would have been 202,595 from 8.99 million infections compared to the actual 30.66 million infections and 555,231 deaths.

BTW, Canada is not one of the top countries in controlling COVID-19, simply one that I am familiar with.

Forget it. I'm wasting my time. Thomas Paine was right.

To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture. — Thomas Paine

[haertig]

For someone accusing me of having no reasoning abilities, you sure aren't showing much.

Originally Posted by DNSB

are you really trying to push the belief that only the vaccinated were present in those crowds?

I never said that. I said the people who attended were there by their own choice. And I acknowledged that the majority of the high risk population has been vaccinated (so they are at low risk of being infected by the event attendees). Is it "reasonable" for you to put words in my mouth that I never said?

Pull the other one, it's got bells! Really!

??? I don't understand that. Must be some kind of inside joke that I am not privy too. No matter. I'll just accept it as the mocking insult/put-down it was probably intended as, and move on. I'm sure a sharp-eyed moderator will delete it.

As for comparing COVID-19 to the flu?

Honestly, from reading your other posts, you appear to be a sharp guy. So it baffles me that you failed to understand what I said. Both above (talking about spreading things after an event) and here, talking about the flu. I said that NOW covid is similar to the flu. Not over all its history. I was talking about right now, current times, after the higher risk population has mostly been vaccinated.

You could not have missed that, here are my exact words:

"At this point in time, where we are with the vaccinations, I view covid as being no worse than the seasonal flu."

"At this time" ... "where we are with the vaccinations" ... you simply cannot have missed that. The only other way to interpret what you just said is to attribute it to willful misconstruing my words. Is that part of you being "reasonable"?

In 2018-2019 flu season, there were 34,200 deaths from influenza. 2019-2020 has 22,104 deaths. For COVID-19 in 2020/21 for a similar 12 month period, the number of deaths was 555,231.

Interesting numbers. And factual as far as I know (I didn't research them for correctness). What is also interesting is that deaths from other causes - heart attacks, cancer, diabetes, etc, - all FELL during this same time period. A time period where people were staying in their homes, delaying medical treatment. Covid must have some healing properties too, huh?

Forget it. I'm wasting my time. Thomas Paine was right.

To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture. — Thomas Paine

Yes. I agree. You are wasting your time. You would waste less of it if you addressed what I actually said, not what you falsely twisted it into me saying.