Another Geographic Restrictions rant - Page 2

GERGE · 06-13-2010, 07:02 AM

It is impossible to restrict people on the Internet according to where they are living. Geographic restriction is done by checking ip numbers which can easily be changed to U.S. ones with the use of free VPN servers.

tompe · 06-13-2010, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solicitous

I don't think downloading a book for 'free' because of geographic restrictions is in the same ethical category as downloading a book because it is not in ebook format. I can understand entirely why people download copies of ebooks they cannot buy because they are refused sale on the basis of geographic restrictions, something which from my readings does not have a clear definition of. I don't think it is fair to say that someone can buy the paperback or ebook version of a novel in the UK, but here in Australia we can only buy the identical paperback version and not the ebook because of our country of residence (though if I flew to the UK and bought the ebook, could I return home with it?).

Understanding why people do things is one thing. I understand why people drive to fast. That does not mean I think it is morally OK to drive to fast. And I really think that if you should break some rules you should do it for more important reasons that just an egoistical "I want this book".

Stinger · 06-13-2010, 03:51 PM

I think the key difference between your driving fast example and the case here, at least to me, morally, is that his download is in not affecting anyone else, especially in terms of health and safety.

With that said, artificial scarcity created by geo-restrictions is about controlling markets and maximizing profits for the big conglomerates, there is no moral or ethical reasoning behind it. Restricting people's access to literature over nothing more than corporate politics remind me of the horror stories my parents used to tell me about living in Communist Czechoslovakia.

The key ethical issue here is: "Who should get to decide what literature I can and cannot legally buy and read?"

tompe · 06-13-2010, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stinger

With that said, artificial scarcity created by geo-restrictions is about controlling markets and maximizing profits for the big conglomerates, there is no moral or ethical reasoning behind it. Restricting people's access to literature over nothing more than corporate politics remind me of the horror stories my parents used to tell me about living in Communist Czechoslovakia.

The key ethical issue here is: "Who should get to decide what literature I can and cannot legally buy and read?"

Yes, but that argument you can apply to copyright laws and the absurd length of copyright protection. And then it becomes a good argument for breaking the rules.

But if you think copyright as it is today is a good idea then I really do not think that companies using the existing copyright by having geographical restrictions is doing something you can complain about.

Stinger · 06-13-2010, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompe

Yes, but that argument you can apply to copyright laws and the absurd length of copyright protection. And then it becomes a good argument for breaking the rules.

Absolutely! I was talking about my problems with the end result, the reasons behind that certainly have to do with (outdated, non-uniform) copyright laws. The end result is still denying people (legal) access to literature for no other reason then where they live, which is what I find unacceptable (especially with respect to digital goods where the cost of replication is zero), and dangerously close to censorship.

Quote:

But if you think copyright as it is today is a good idea then I really do not think that companies using the existing copyright by having geographical restrictions is doing something you can complain about.

I don't, so I'll continue to complain

pietvo · 06-13-2010, 05:46 PM

Yes, and the stupid thing is you can buy the paper version without restrictions in general. So why not the ebook? They make this artificial distinction that you buy the paper book in the country where the shop is located and you buy the electronic version in the location where you live or where the IP address of your computer is supposed to be or where your credit card is registered or where you say that you are located at that moment or whatever. Different shops use different definitions. I think this is silly and if there would be any logical restriction it should be the location of the shop like for paper books. But as the internet is global geographic restrictions do not make much sense anyway.

nikkers · 06-14-2010, 12:21 AM

Geo restrictions wouldn't matter if the books were released world wide just like movies are. But when you can't buy a book in Australia because it hasn't been released and may never be released then it is patently absurd. Australian publishers only release books (paper ones) if they can sell a print run to be profitable. They can't seem to get it ,that every E book sale is profit as the publisher only has to format it once , release it world wide .

Blue Tyson · 06-14-2010, 07:56 AM

Actually, we don't get all movies, music etc. either. E.g. compare how many titles Netflix and Quickflix have for example.

One funny one: got an email from the Highlander people asking for help promoting their stuff, e.g. tv show etc. I said, sure, when you get around to selling it to me. Still waiting, much, much later. ;-)

Laine · 06-15-2010, 05:16 AM

What the authors are forgetting is that the hype around a new release in the U.S.A. is on the blogs read by fans overseas.

If the ebook isn't released here till 1, 2 or 3 years later there is no hype then .... and I'll have forgotten about the book, and probably the author too, by then. If I've not decided to boycott them because I'm fed up, that is.

This year I have dropped many U.S.A. authors from my must have list and have discovered some great U.K. authors to replace them.

(I love Stephen Booth, for example and I would never have discovered him if it wasn't for GR. Ditto Sue Moorcroft.)

gollu · 06-15-2010, 06:53 AM

First time I can say I am fond of geo restrictions. If I were so fond of Chomsky I'd transfer him money on paypal and not go for opening threads in a non-political forums.

ronw · 06-30-2010, 06:28 PM

As I understand it the Geo restrictions are a hang over from the dividing up of the world into two selling regions by book publishers years ago. England got to sell to all its former colonies and America the rest. In those days books took for ever to get down to Australia/NewZealand and we had no choice but to accept it.
Internet selling sort of put a dent in this cosy arrangement but even some titles were denied to this part of world. Along comes e-Books and they are still trying to use agreements made decades ago to restrict commerce/competition
It is an insidious practice and it should be stomped on.Restrictions on books are probably the worst thing one can do. Shades of Fahrenheit 451

sabredog · 06-30-2010, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronw

It is an insidious practice and it should be stomped on.Restrictions on books are probably the worst thing one can do. Shades of Fahrenheit 451

Anachronistic, outmoded business practices are a hallmark of those businesses who wish to keep total control over distribution.

06-13-2010, 03:51 PM	#18
Stinger Asha'man Posts: 335 Karma: 844 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Canada Device: Kobo	I think the key difference between your driving fast example and the case here, at least to me, morally, is that his download is in not affecting anyone else, especially in terms of health and safety. With that said, artificial scarcity created by geo-restrictions is about controlling markets and maximizing profits for the big conglomerates, there is no moral or ethical reasoning behind it. Restricting people's access to literature over nothing more than corporate politics remind me of the horror stories my parents used to tell me about living in Communist Czechoslovakia. The key ethical issue here is: "Who should get to decide what literature I can and cannot legally buy and read?" Last edited by Stinger; 06-13-2010 at 04:11 PM.

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06-13-2010, 07:02 AM	#16
GERGE Guru Posts: 732 Karma: 5797160 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Istanbul Device: Kobo Libra	It is impossible to restrict people on the Internet according to where they are living. Geographic restriction is done by checking ip numbers which can easily be changed to U.S. ones with the use of free VPN servers.

06-13-2010, 05:46 PM	#21
pietvo Reader Posts: 519 Karma: 24612 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Utrecht, NL Device: Kobo Aura 2, iPhone, iPad	Yes, and the stupid thing is you can buy the paper version without restrictions in general. So why not the ebook? They make this artificial distinction that you buy the paper book in the country where the shop is located and you buy the electronic version in the location where you live or where the IP address of your computer is supposed to be or where your credit card is registered or where you say that you are located at that moment or whatever. Different shops use different definitions. I think this is silly and if there would be any logical restriction it should be the location of the shop like for paper books. But as the internet is global geographic restrictions do not make much sense anyway.

06-14-2010, 12:21 AM	#22
nikkers tragic Posts: 55 Karma: 1010096 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: 160km from a bookshop Device: IPAQ classic	Geo restrictions wouldn't matter if the books were released world wide just like movies are. But when you can't buy a book in Australia because it hasn't been released and may never be released then it is patently absurd. Australian publishers only release books (paper ones) if they can sell a print run to be profitable. They can't seem to get it ,that every E book sale is profit as the publisher only has to format it once , release it world wide .

06-14-2010, 07:56 AM	#23
Blue Tyson Blue Captain Posts: 1,595 Karma: 5000236 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Australia Device: Kindle Keyboard 3G,Huawei Ideos X3,Kobo Mini	Actually, we don't get all movies, music etc. either. E.g. compare how many titles Netflix and Quickflix have for example. One funny one: got an email from the Highlander people asking for help promoting their stuff, e.g. tv show etc. I said, sure, when you get around to selling it to me. Still waiting, much, much later. ;-)

06-15-2010, 05:16 AM	#24
Laine Addict Posts: 341 Karma: 1162396 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cabramatta, Sydney, Australia Device: Aura H2O, Voyage	What the authors are forgetting is that the hype around a new release in the U.S.A. is on the blogs read by fans overseas. If the ebook isn't released here till 1, 2 or 3 years later there is no hype then .... and I'll have forgotten about the book, and probably the author too, by then. If I've not decided to boycott them because I'm fed up, that is. This year I have dropped many U.S.A. authors from my must have list and have discovered some great U.K. authors to replace them. (I love Stephen Booth, for example and I would never have discovered him if it wasn't for GR. Ditto Sue Moorcroft.)

06-15-2010, 06:53 AM	#25
gollu Unsullied Posts: 249 Karma: 759693 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Israel Device: Kindle 2i	First time I can say I am fond of geo restrictions. If I were so fond of Chomsky I'd transfer him money on paypal and not go for opening threads in a non-political forums.

06-30-2010, 06:28 PM	#26
ronw Enthusiast Posts: 27 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Auckland NZ Device: kobo	As I understand it the Geo restrictions are a hang over from the dividing up of the world into two selling regions by book publishers years ago. England got to sell to all its former colonies and America the rest. In those days books took for ever to get down to Australia/NewZealand and we had no choice but to accept it. Internet selling sort of put a dent in this cosy arrangement but even some titles were denied to this part of world. Along comes e-Books and they are still trying to use agreements made decades ago to restrict commerce/competition It is an insidious practice and it should be stomped on.Restrictions on books are probably the worst thing one can do. Shades of Fahrenheit 451