Do you like kids?

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

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Having the 'state' raise children, would give them all the same opportunities - thereby reducing much of the talent that currently goes to waste in disadvantaged families, when it could be benefitting us all.
Also, it wouldn't have to be about locking the children away in institutions - they'd belong to the community, rather than a couple of parents. The nuclear family we now have in developed countries is a fairly new phenomenon after all; in the past children had extended communities to help raise them. These days, parents have too much control over their kids (tho' that won't be a popular view either, I imagine ).

I think people have thought of it before; e.g. Huxley's 'Brave New World' - often misdescribed as a dystopia.

Yeah, I know the book. I was being facetious.

Someone has to decide, in your view of raising children, what values they are raised with.

Obviously, there couldn't be different religions, cultural values, or ethnic groups.

How do you deal with the many differing personalities little ones have? With the individualistic thoughts, and those that just don't 'fit' into the molds?

This is a really scary thought for me.

[Lady Blue]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

I knew it would be a minority view - .

Having the 'state' raise children, would give them all the same opportunities - thereby reducing much of the talent that currently goes to waste in disadvantaged families, when it could be benefitting us all.
Also, it wouldn't have to be about locking the children away in institutions - they'd belong to the community, rather than a couple of parents. The nuclear family we now have in developed countries is a fairly new phenomenon after all; in the past children had extended communities to help raise them. These days, parents have too much control over their kids (tho' that won't be a popular view either, I imagine ).

I think people have thought of it before; e.g. Huxley's 'Brave New World' - often misdescribed as a dystopia.

What do you mean by parents having too much control over their kids? In what way? I don't understand this.

Generally speaking, I believe that's part of the problem these days . . . parents don't have enough control over their kids. Seems the kids have all the control now, and not necessarily in a good way.

[krisk]

I believe this is a good example of what happens when parents become disenfranchised. Hillary may have thought it takes a village to raise a chid, but that village damn well better start with some parents that have some roots, and love, and purpose

[Lady Blue]

Originally Posted by krisk

I believe this is a good example of what happens when parents become disenfranchised. Hillary may have thought it takes a village to raise a chid, but that village damn well better start with some parents that have some roots, and love, and purpose

There's just too much of that insanity going on these days. The kids will most likely get a slap on the wrist, have their records sealed because they're minors, blah, blah . . .

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by Lady Blue

What do you mean by parents having too much control over their kids? In what way? I don't understand this.

In the UK, parents seem to object to anyone else coming into contact with their children - certainly, they get upset if anyone else chastises them (even a teacher).
Yet, they also want their children to be accepted in the community (e.g. taking them to restaurants).
I think it was even reported in one of the threads here that someone sitting in a park watching children play - was viewed with obvious suspicion by a gaggle of mothers, until they were made uncomfoprtable enough to leave.
I saw a lost child crying in a shopping centre - but no member of the public dared approach him to offer help for fear of the accusations that could be made.
We call it hysterical parent syndrome - they're far too overprotective imho. When they do finally let them off the leash the kids often lack the social skills to cope.
(But in all this, it's worth remembering there are parents doing a good job raising kids who are a credit to them, and a great addition to the community. I'm not trying to suggets they're all bad.)

[Ceili]

Originally Posted by krisk

I believe this is a good example of what happens when parents become disenfranchised. Hillary may have thought it takes a village to raise a chid, but that village damn well better start with some parents that have some roots, and love, and purpose

Urquhart said the others in the group consisted of a 13-year-old boy, a 12-year-old boy and 11-year-old boy. They were all released to their parents.

Sure... because these parents have already shown what stellar individuals they are raising...

[Bilbo1967]

The trouble with this issue is that, I think, everybody agrees that there really are some people who just should not be allowed to breed, or. if they are, they are not fit to bring up the kids themselves.

Trouble with that, of course, is, who decides? If it was my decision, I am sure that I would come up with criteria which others disagreed with - I'm equally sure that whoever made the decisions, somebody would disagree with them. I don't think I have an answer to this and I'd be amazed if anybody could come up with an answer everybody agreed with.

[Justy]

Originally Posted by kazbates

One of the things I find completely frustrating is watching parents completely ignore their misbehaving children or make excuses for their bad behaviour. At Ryleigh's recital practice tonight, I watched small children running up and down the auditorium aisles, almost knocking over expensive recording equipment and making a general nuisance of themselves. Where were their parents, ignoring their children and talking so loudly that others couldn't hear any of the procedural announcements the dance instructor was making. I love children and can easily handle one who is misbehaving, but I also know that their behaviour can generally be laid at the feet of their parents.

Totally agree with this! At my Son's Christmas recital I was the only parent who got up and told a child to behave and not run around. He was part of a pack of 5 that just wouldn't stay in their spot. It was a small room, very easy to get out of my chair and nab Son at the side of the room to express my displeasure at his behaviour without disturbing other parents. Apparently it was more important for the other parents to sit still than to make sure their kids stood still and took part in the songs with their classmates. *sigh*

I really don't like those random screaming hords of kids that I see so often, or the ones that scream in the restaurant for no apparent reason while be ignored by their parents (or maybe that's why they are screaming). I enjoy my son and a few of his friends who are actually polite and interested in what is going on around them. I have to confess that I wasn't really thrilled with even my own child until he started to interact with me at 6 month, when he started to talk at 2 yrs things started to pick up, now that he is 5 yrs old I really enjoy spending time with him.

All those hrs of reading to him are paying off too, we wanted to sleep in a bit on the weekend and sent him back to his room to play. When we went into his room later that day his bed was covered with the books he had 'read' while we were sleeping. Made me proud.

[krisk]

this whole touching (or not) kids is incredibly out of control. in addition to the other things that I do for fun (?) I work with Girl Scouts and teach skiing. quite often these little girls aren't getting effective parenting anywhere else and the parents at least figured out that Scouting might help... well sometimes they just need a hug. boy!!! if you're going to do that, you'd best make sure about 99 people are watching and EVERYONE can see your hands!

last year I had a skier fall (duh! it's ski school!), and when I helped her up I kind of boosted her by the butt... sometimes that's about all you can get hold of. sure enough later on I had to answer why "my ski school teacher touched my butt!!!" also this is a situation where kids get scared, even hurt a little and they need a pat and a hug to get going again. once again! you have to be VERY careful!

anyway... I'm jumping into the deep end and starting foster parent classes tonight.

[Justy]

Originally Posted by krisk

well sometimes they just need a hug. boy!!! if you're going to do that, you'd best make sure about 99 people are watching and EVERYONE can see your hands!

I'm so pleased that my Son's daycare has a good grasp on this, the teachers all give and get hugs on a regular basis and it is obvious that the kids love them.. All the kids in there love to give each other hugs, they all support each other and help each other out when needed. There isn't the kind of big kid picking on little kids stuff that I've seen happen in other schools.

My son was almost brought to tears when a long time friend who goes to a different school started to sing "You're a loser, I'm a winner" in that lovely jeering sing song voice kids have, my son had never been exposed to that kind of thing before. This boy would never have done such a thing the previous year, but 2 months exposure to that behaviour from older kids and he was all over it. It took a while for his mother to notice/admit that her son's behaviour had changed and start to make adjustments in it. She had on those "not my child" blinders we all wear from time to time.

Originally Posted by krisk

anyway... I'm jumping into the deep end and starting foster parent classes tonight.

I admire you so much for this!!! I have often thought about being a foster parent but I know that the amount of time and attention that child would need to adjust to a new situation is more than I can give right now. I have to work hard to make the time to play and read with my son so that he has a good foundation to fall back on. I am in awe of the people who are willing and able to do such a selfless thing and make a child's life better. I know you will be one of the 'good' foster parents.

[kazbates]

Originally Posted by Lady Blue

What do you mean by parents having too much control over their kids? In what way? I don't understand this.

Generally speaking, I believe that's part of the problem these days . . . parents don't have enough control over their kids. Seems the kids have all the control now, and not necessarily in a good way.

That's exactly it!! The parents are too busy at the gym, spa, etc., or too busy working long hours so they can drive fancy cars, wear designer labels, having plastic surgery and live in huge houses. Their kids are superflous.

Originally Posted by Sparrow

In the UK, parents seem to object to anyone else coming into contact with their children - certainly, they get upset if anyone else chastises them (even a teacher).

It happens here in the US, too!

Originally Posted by krisk

I believe this is a good example of what happens when parents become disenfranchised. Hillary may have thought it takes a village to raise a chid, but that village damn well better start with some parents that have some roots, and love, and purpose

No offense to Hillary, but she's full of beans! It takes responsible parents to raise a child. In Florida, we elementary teachers are expected to teach Character Traits, something the children should learn at home, but were not. It was bad enough I had to get them ready for standardized testing, but now I had to include things like personal responsibility, helpfulness, etc.

Originally Posted by krisk

this whole touching (or not) kids is incredibly out of control. in addition to the other things that I do for fun (?) I work with Girl Scouts and teach skiing. quite often these little girls aren't getting effective parenting anywhere else and the parents at least figured out that Scouting might help... well sometimes they just need a hug. boy!!! if you're going to do that, you'd best make sure about 99 people are watching and EVERYONE can see your hands!

last year I had a skier fall (duh! it's ski school!), and when I helped her up I kind of boosted her by the butt... sometimes that's about all you can get hold of. sure enough later on I had to answer why "my ski school teacher touched my butt!!!" also this is a situation where kids get scared, even hurt a little and they need a pat and a hug to get going again. once again! you have to be VERY careful!

anyway... I'm jumping into the deep end and starting foster parent classes tonight.

Best of luck to you, krisk. You are an angel.

[Ceili]

Originally Posted by krisk

anyway... I'm jumping into the deep end and starting foster parent classes tonight.

I wish you the very best of luck and resilience! It's a wonderful thing you are doing!

[GlennD]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

It seems to me that a lot of the problems result from failing families - families produce troublesome kids, and families also present the greatest threat to children's wellbeing (as Larkin pointed out - includes swearing).

I'll never live to see it - but I reckon we need a better way to bring up future generations rather than relying on family units to do it.
If the state raised children, we'd have a more equal society with better life-chances for the next generation.

(Although I recognise this is a minority view at the moment. )

My first response to this was that (in the US at least) they'd better repeal the 2nd amendment before they try to get near my kids.

My second was that I wonder where they'd find mothers and fathers (or should we just call them womb donors and sperm donors?) willing to beget/bear a child and then just hand him/her over to the state. Sounds like a solution to population pressure to me.

My third reaction was that we may be headed there - in the US there's been talk of mandatory preschool so that kids are in state-run schools from about the age of 3 on up.

As much as families may struggle to raise kids, I don't see a single government in the world today that I'd trust to do a better job of it. Maybe government efforts should be spent in trying to find ways to support families in doing what they're designed to do.

Children aren't part of an assembly line manufacturing process. No parent is perfect, and certainly many of them are better than others. But kids learn primarily by example - seeing their parents support a family and just live life prepares them for when they, in turn, enter the 'real world'.

[desertgrandma]

Actually, if you are going to take it that far, we don't even need women to bear children. They've been doing it in test tubes for years..........

That would free the women to work even harder for the state.

[GlennD]

Originally Posted by krisk

this whole touching (or not) kids is incredibly out of control. in addition to the other things that I do for fun (?) I work with Girl Scouts and teach skiing. quite often these little girls aren't getting effective parenting anywhere else and the parents at least figured out that Scouting might help... well sometimes they just need a hug. boy!!! if you're going to do that, you'd best make sure about 99 people are watching and EVERYONE can see your hands!

When I worked in a high school as an interpreter one of the things they mentioned in orientation was that hugs are fine....but if you hug one gender you'd best be treating the other gender the same way. Kind of hard to do in girl scouts, I suppose.