Literary The MR Literary Club • Welcome, Information & General Discussion - Page 9

paola · 06-06-2014, 03:37 AM

First of all, thanks sunsurfer for overseeing another year of reading pleasure!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bookpossum

5. Recommendation.
Given this experience, I would like to propose a slight change to the rules of the Literary Book Club to apply from our new year commencing on 1 July 2014.

Of course anyone who wishes to join the Club is very welcome to do so BUT I believe it is reasonable to ask that in the first instance, someone wanting to join us starts by reading and participating in the discussion of a book that has been selected. After that initial involvement, the new member would be welcome to participate fully in nominating, supporting, voting and then discussing.

This proposal seems to me entirely fair, and I had a similar impression. But the issue seems to be with "voting only".

I'd also be happy for newcomers to propose books and participate in the nomination process from the outset: that would remove I think the bias introduced when someone, expecially new MR members, votes just because there is a poll (I think I must have done it too) without thinking too much of the implications.

In other words, I would modify your proposal as follows: a newcomer can join in any month either by participating in the nomination process (and voting), or by participating in the discussion (but not voting).

Bookpossum · 06-06-2014, 04:11 AM

Thanks paola. My feeling is that the real purpose of the Club is to read and discuss the book that has been selected. So I would prefer not to have the "or" in your suggestion, though obviously after the person's first participation, that could be reasonable.

This might happen where someone got involved in the voting and then for whatever reason - something happening in the family, real difficulty in getting hold of the book selected - the member was not able to read the book and take part in the discussion. But I would hope that, as usually happens with members, when we know we cannot participate because we are going on holidays or whatever, we don't vote.

issybird · 06-06-2014, 08:34 AM

I'll post at more length later as I'm rushed at work right now, but I wanted to second Bookpossum's excellent proposal and object somewhat to Paola's (sorry, Paola!). I think a reqirement to nominate before voting runs a real risk of undermining the premise of the club. As it is, when mostly only the regulars nominate, there's a good measure of quality control, so to speak. But just as the main club is registering complaints that it's lit club lite, a reqirement to nominate first here might result in a slate full of best-sellers! And they might be chosen!

desertblues · 06-06-2014, 05:23 PM

I guess it will be difficult to set rules for voting, as everyone who is logged in, can vote. There can be several reasons for not joining in in the discussion.

I know I voted once or twice in the past, in the hope "my book" would be chosen and I would read it, without participating in the discussion for whatever reason I thought valid at the time. But I enjoyed the discussion of the book all the same.

Perhaps there can be an appeal of some sort, or an invitation/explanation to vote, but also participate in the discussion at the beginning of each poll. The bookclub wants to be accessible, I think, but at the same time have some serious quality reading.

BelleZora · 06-06-2014, 06:57 PM

I'm with Desertblues.

Quote:

Perhaps there can be an appeal of some sort, or an invitation/explanation to vote, but also participate in the discussion at the beginning of each poll.

As Paola points out, new MR members may vote just because there is a poll without realizing the implications of their vote. I hope that they always feel that the book clubs are open and welcoming. I think that beginning the thread with the sort of appeal suggested by Desertblues would be appreciated by those who really don't understand the nomination and voting process. Beyond that, we probably should just not worry about it.

I loved Bookpossum's carefully considered post. Just a note: I switched my vote from The Thirty-Nine Steps (which has been on my TBR pile forever) to Under Western Eyes in the run-off because two regular members had already read Buchan's book and the regulars (except for Caleb) had voted for Under Western Eyes while the drop-ins, who may or may not plan to participate, voted for Steps. Sorry, Caleb. Also I felt a bit stung by the literary-lite accusation in the regular book club and came to believe that Under Western Eyes would be a more appropriate choice for this club. Perhaps if the regulars vote not simply for their own preferences but with the intention of making the best choices for the club it will all balance out without devising any new rules.

Bookpossum · 06-06-2014, 07:41 PM

I'm glad I have sparked some discussion on this and I'm sure that we can come up with a friendly way of inviting people to join us but pointing out what the Club is about.

With this thought, I wonder why we don't appear on the Home page, as the regular Club does. I know we aren't very large, but that is perhaps partly because we don't "advertise" ourselves. So new members may join MR who would be interested in the Literary Club, but don't realise we exist.

So maybe (as long as it doesn't create a lot of work for sun surfer) we could get ourselves up on the home page to do a launch of whatever we think our wording should be, plus the list of topics for the year, and then maybe just an announcement each month of the chosen book for that month?

issybird · 06-06-2014, 08:04 PM

Yes, the software will let anyone vote, but it would be easy to ignore any invalid votes. I don't see why a requirement to participate first would discourage anyone; I even think it might have the opposite effect. This is a small group and I imagine it could seem a tough group to crack, but by saying discuss first, then vote, we'd be making it explicit that we welcome new blood.

In May, as both Bookpossum and BelleZora have discussed, we came very close to having a book selected despite virtually all the likely participants preferring another. No doubt we'd have read it, but it hardly seems reasonable that people who don't participate should drive the selection, and that's the bottom line for me. There have been other months when a vote of only the regulars would have resulted in a different selection. I certainly hope that those who vote are reading and enjoying the discussion, but dare I say it? Perhaps they should read and enjoy the selection of those who are going to be doing the discussing.

We generally have strong slates and the final choice isn't a huge issue, but the disparity in votes for May showed the potential for problems. I'll be frank; I've largely dropped out of the main club for just this reason. Last year, I read many books of limited interest to me and for which I did not vote, only to have those responsible for their selection conspicuous by their absence during the discussion. We're lucky in this club that most feel an obligation to show up for the discussion when they can, even if the vote has gone against them. But I think there's a danger that if the no-shows make the choices, some of the regulars will feel less like putting on a performance. This is a terrific group, and I don't think we can spare anyone!

issybird · 06-06-2014, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bookpossum

I'm glad I have sparked some discussion on this and I'm sure that we can come up with a friendly way of inviting people to join us but pointing out what the Club is about.

With this thought, I wonder why we don't appear on the Home page, as the regular Club does. I know we aren't very large, but that is perhaps partly because we don't "advertise" ourselves. So new members may join MR who would be interested in the Literary Club, but don't realise we exist.

So maybe (as long as it doesn't create a lot of work for sun surfer) we could get ourselves up on the home page to do a launch of whatever we think our wording should be, plus the list of topics for the year, and then maybe just an announcement each month of the chosen book for that month?

We may not be large, but most months we seem to have more posts for our book discussion than the main club does. We are not, however, run by a mod, and that might be why we're not on the home page.

Bookpossum · 06-06-2014, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by issybird

We may not be large, but most months we seem to have more posts for our book discussion than the main club does. We are not, however, run by a mod, and that might be why we're not on the home page.

Oh I see. Should we ask for a moderator (e.g. poohbear_nc who voted in the June run-off, so must keep some sort of eye on us) to be our "sponsor", if that is what is needed?

Sorry if I'm taking this way beyond what feels right for you in particular, sun surfer. It's just a case of throwing out some ideas as they occur, so apologies if I have trodden on any toes. Definitely not intended! I love this Club.

issybird · 06-06-2014, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bookpossum

Oh I see. Should we ask for a moderator (e.g. poohbear_nc who voted in the June run-off, so must keep some sort of eye on us) to be our "sponsor", if that is what is needed?

Sorry if I'm taking this way beyond what feels right for you in particular, sun surfer. It's just a case of throwing out some ideas as they occur, so apologies if I have trodden on any toes. Definitely not intended! I love this Club.

In fact, I suspect the reason t'other club is on the home page is because it's been around so long, although the number of votes in the polls may also be a factor. I don't think we want or need a mod, do we? The hand of officialdom can be heavy.

BelleZora · 06-06-2014, 10:17 PM

Bookpossum, I love your willingness to spark discussion - from your 'wot? No takers?' post in February which triggered much discussion to yesterday's post. You are very good at it. Often people (well...me) will think the same things, but perhaps lack the confidence or maybe just the motivation to put it on the table for discussion. Good for you.

sun surfer · 06-06-2014, 11:43 PM

No apologies are needed, Bookpossum. I've never asked anyone, but my suspicion has always been that only the other club is on the home page because it's the "general" book club that's supposed to have a little bit of everything for everyone. We're not the only other book club; there's a German-language book club as well in another forum here.

Bookpossum · 06-07-2014, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by issybird

In fact, I suspect the reason t'other club is on the home page is because it's been around so long, although the number of votes in the polls may also be a factor. I don't think we want or need a mod, do we? The hand of officialdom can be heavy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BelleZora

Bookpossum, I love your willingness to spark discussion - from your 'wot? No takers?' post in February which triggered much discussion to yesterday's post. You are very good at it. Often people (well...me) will think the same things, but perhaps lack the confidence or maybe just the motivation to put it on the table for discussion. Good for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sun surfer

No apologies are needed, Bookpossum. I've never asked anyone, but my suspicion has always been that only the other club is on the home page because it's the "general" book club that's supposed to have a little bit of everything for everyone. We're not the only other book club; there's a German-language book club as well in another forum here.

Thank you all for your kind remarks. Yes, I can see your point issybird! And in my ignorance, I hadn't realised there was at least one other club besides ours. So forget about that suggestion.

Billi · 06-07-2014, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by issybird

In fact, I suspect the reason t'other club is on the home page is because it's been around so long, although the number of votes in the polls may also be a factor. I don't think we want or need a mod, do we? The hand of officialdom can be heavy.

I strongly agree on the we don't want or need a mod part, alltough I would really like to see some of them participating here.

What do you mean with the "home page"? The www.mobileread.com address? As I understood it the mods are quite happy to have "other" contributions there too. I think it will be no problem to have us there at the first of every month (or so, when it is best) if we prepare a little article.

Billi · 06-07-2014, 03:35 AM

In the last time I'm guilty of participating in the polls but rarely contributing in the discussions too, but this is mostly a time problem. I seem to read a lot slower and when I finally finish the book all the wise things have already been said! But I'm nevertheless reading all the books, so perhaps there are some other "silent" readers out there too.

But in general, I think the May must have been an exception and I don't realise it as a problem if some "foreign" voters influence the outcome of the voting. Normally our selection is thus that almost every book of it is worth reading, so I didn't care too much from who the votes came.

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06-06-2014, 04:11 AM	#122
Bookpossum Snoozing in the sun Posts: 10,137 Karma: 115423645 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Melbourne, Australia Device: iPad Mini, Kobo Touch	Thanks paola. My feeling is that the real purpose of the Club is to read and discuss the book that has been selected. So I would prefer not to have the "or" in your suggestion, though obviously after the person's first participation, that could be reasonable. This might happen where someone got involved in the voting and then for whatever reason - something happening in the family, real difficulty in getting hold of the book selected - the member was not able to read the book and take part in the discussion. But I would hope that, as usually happens with members, when we know we cannot participate because we are going on holidays or whatever, we don't vote.

06-06-2014, 08:34 AM	#123
issybird o saeclum infacetum Posts: 20,229 Karma: 222235366 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: New England Device: H2O, Aura One, PW5	I'll post at more length later as I'm rushed at work right now, but I wanted to second Bookpossum's excellent proposal and object somewhat to Paola's (sorry, Paola!). I think a reqirement to nominate before voting runs a real risk of undermining the premise of the club. As it is, when mostly only the regulars nominate, there's a good measure of quality control, so to speak. But just as the main club is registering complaints that it's lit club lite, a reqirement to nominate first here might result in a slate full of best-sellers! And they might be chosen!

06-06-2014, 05:23 PM	#124
desertblues Home for the moment Posts: 5,127 Karma: 27718936 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: travelling Device: various	I guess it will be difficult to set rules for voting, as everyone who is logged in, can vote. There can be several reasons for not joining in in the discussion. I know I voted once or twice in the past, in the hope "my book" would be chosen and I would read it, without participating in the discussion for whatever reason I thought valid at the time. But I enjoyed the discussion of the book all the same. Perhaps there can be an appeal of some sort, or an invitation/explanation to vote, but also participate in the discussion at the beginning of each poll. The bookclub wants to be accessible, I think, but at the same time have some serious quality reading.

06-06-2014, 07:41 PM	#126
Bookpossum Snoozing in the sun Posts: 10,137 Karma: 115423645 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Melbourne, Australia Device: iPad Mini, Kobo Touch	I'm glad I have sparked some discussion on this and I'm sure that we can come up with a friendly way of inviting people to join us but pointing out what the Club is about. With this thought, I wonder why we don't appear on the Home page, as the regular Club does. I know we aren't very large, but that is perhaps partly because we don't "advertise" ourselves. So new members may join MR who would be interested in the Literary Club, but don't realise we exist. So maybe (as long as it doesn't create a lot of work for sun surfer) we could get ourselves up on the home page to do a launch of whatever we think our wording should be, plus the list of topics for the year, and then maybe just an announcement each month of the chosen book for that month?

06-06-2014, 08:04 PM	#127
issybird o saeclum infacetum Posts: 20,229 Karma: 222235366 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: New England Device: H2O, Aura One, PW5	Yes, the software will let anyone vote, but it would be easy to ignore any invalid votes. I don't see why a requirement to participate first would discourage anyone; I even think it might have the opposite effect. This is a small group and I imagine it could seem a tough group to crack, but by saying discuss first, then vote, we'd be making it explicit that we welcome new blood. In May, as both Bookpossum and BelleZora have discussed, we came very close to having a book selected despite virtually all the likely participants preferring another. No doubt we'd have read it, but it hardly seems reasonable that people who don't participate should drive the selection, and that's the bottom line for me. There have been other months when a vote of only the regulars would have resulted in a different selection. I certainly hope that those who vote are reading and enjoying the discussion, but dare I say it? Perhaps they should read and enjoy the selection of those who are going to be doing the discussing. We generally have strong slates and the final choice isn't a huge issue, but the disparity in votes for May showed the potential for problems. I'll be frank; I've largely dropped out of the main club for just this reason. Last year, I read many books of limited interest to me and for which I did not vote, only to have those responsible for their selection conspicuous by their absence during the discussion. We're lucky in this club that most feel an obligation to show up for the discussion when they can, even if the vote has gone against them. But I think there's a danger that if the no-shows make the choices, some of the regulars will feel less like putting on a performance. This is a terrific group, and I don't think we can spare anyone!

06-06-2014, 10:17 PM	#131
BelleZora Wizard Posts: 1,432 Karma: 25151986 Join Date: May 2012 Location: Seattle, US Device: Kindle Oasis 3, Kobo Libra 2	Bookpossum, I love your willingness to spark discussion - from your 'wot? No takers?' post in February which triggered much discussion to yesterday's post. You are very good at it. Often people (well...me) will think the same things, but perhaps lack the confidence or maybe just the motivation to put it on the table for discussion. Good for you.

06-06-2014, 11:43 PM	#132
sun surfer languorous autodidact ✦ Posts: 4,235 Karma: 44637926 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: smiling with the rising sun Device: onyx boox poke 2 colour, kindle voyage	No apologies are needed, Bookpossum. I've never asked anyone, but my suspicion has always been that only the other club is on the home page because it's the "general" book club that's supposed to have a little bit of everything for everyone. We're not the only other book club; there's a German-language book club as well in another forum here.

06-07-2014, 03:35 AM	#135
Billi Wizard Posts: 3,388 Karma: 14190103 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Berlin Device: Cybook, iRex, PB, Onyx	In the last time I'm guilty of participating in the polls but rarely contributing in the discussions too, but this is mostly a time problem. I seem to read a lot slower and when I finally finish the book all the wise things have already been said! But I'm nevertheless reading all the books, so perhaps there are some other "silent" readers out there too. But in general, I think the May must have been an exception and I don't realise it as a problem if some "foreign" voters influence the outcome of the voting. Normally our selection is thus that almost every book of it is worth reading, so I didn't care too much from who the votes came.

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