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Old 07-07-2018, 07:19 AM   #1
Sam Sahara
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Why not a metadata editor sigil-style?

I make and edit epubs with the calibre editor, but when I have to edit metadata I cannot do it into the editor and I have to use sigil.

I think that a metada editor into the calibre editor would be very useful and very appreciated.

Aren't you agree, Kovid?

ss
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Old 07-07-2018, 08:32 AM   #2
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Because you can edit metadata in calibre, I'm not intereseted in duplicating that functionality in the editor.
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Old 07-16-2018, 05:52 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kovidgoyal View Post
Because you can edit metadata in calibre, I'm not intereseted in duplicating that functionality in the editor.
It shouldn't has to be a duplication. The metadata editor should has to manage the Dublin Core metadata element set (the full set) into the "dc:" tags of the "content.opf" file.

Maybe an editor plugin would be useful enough.

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Last edited by Sam Sahara; 07-16-2018 at 06:06 AM.
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Old 07-16-2018, 07:56 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Sahara View Post
It shouldn't has to be a duplication. The metadata editor should has to manage the Dublin Core metadata element set (the full set) into the "dc:" tags of the "content.opf" file.
But, that is what the metadata editor is doing. It just isn't doing it directly to the book. It is doing it in the calibre library. Calibre will then update the book with the metadata at various times, some automatically, and some when you trigger it. The ways I can think of are: Embed metadata, Polish books, conversion, Modify ePub plugin, send to device, save to disk and opening the editor. That makes a metadata editor in the editor a lot less necessary than it is in a stand-alone tool like Sigil.
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Old 07-16-2018, 08:57 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
But, that is what the metadata editor is doing. It just isn't doing it directly to the book. It is doing it in the calibre library.
Well, I think that if Calibre write the metadata directly into the book, it would be a better thing.

Anyway, I'm not sure to understand: how would you add the following metadata into the .opf file of an epub with the calibre metadata editor?

Code:
<!-- Attention to 'opf:role="com"' -->
<dc:creator opf:file-as="Dolci, Francesco" opf:role="com">Francesco Dolci</dc:creator>
<dc:rights>-SS- luglio 2018</dc:rights>
<dc:contributor opf:role="bkp">Created with EBC - the Electric Book Creator by Sasha Pavlowskij</dc:contributor>
<meta content="1.0" name="EBC - the Electric Book Creator"/>
ss

Last edited by Sam Sahara; 07-16-2018 at 08:59 AM.
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Old 07-16-2018, 09:52 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Sahara View Post
Well, I think that if Calibre write the metadata directly into the book, it would be a better thing.
There has been a lot of discussion about this over the years. I'd suggest a search to find it. But, overall, I think the current direction is correct.
Quote:
Anyway, I'm not sure to understand: how would you add the following metadata into the .opf file of an epub with the calibre metadata editor?

Code:
<!-- Attention to 'opf:role="com"' -->
<dc:creator opf:file-as="Dolci, Francesco" opf:role="com">Francesco Dolci</dc:creator>
<dc:rights>-SS- luglio 2018</dc:rights>
<dc:contributor opf:role="bkp">Created with EBC - the Electric Book Creator by Sasha Pavlowskij</dc:contributor>
<meta content="1.0" name="EBC - the Electric Book Creator"/>
Looking at those lines:
  • The first is a comment, so I assume that isn't something you are interested in.
  • The dc:creator looks exactly the same as what calibre uses when it sets the author.
  • Calibre doesn't seem to handle the dc:rights, but I also don't see it in any of my books. Is it a copyright statement or something else?
  • The dc:contributor is what put there by the tool used to create the epub. Calibre will set this at appropriate times to itself.
  • The meta tag appears to be specifying the version of the tool that created the epub.

My understanding is that calibre is maintaining most of the Dublin Core metadata entries when it updates the metadata in the books. The dc:rights seems to be the missing entry but that might just be my books. The other two entries are application specific and I wouldn't expect anyone to manually add them.

I would suggest doing some experiments to see what happens. Create an empty book, fill in the metadata in calibre and update the book. Then view the OPF and see what you have.
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:32 AM   #7
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I can see pro and cons. I use the editor often w/o calibre in direct mode (like Sigil). In this case I sometimes whish to have a simple expandable tool too. On the other hand you can easily use snippets to work around this.
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:52 AM   #8
Sam Sahara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
The first is a comment, so I assume that isn't something you are interested in.
No, the first line was a message to you to pay attention to the attribute 'opf:role="com"' in the subsequent line; it is a DC element refinement of the "creator" element and stands for "compiler". The element refinements are correctly managed by sigil into his metadata editor, as you can see into the image: Click image for larger version

Name:	sigil.png
Views:	58
Size:	78.6 KB
ID:	165068

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
The dc:creator looks exactly the same as what calibre uses when it sets the author.
No, as I said the attribute is not 'opf:role="aut"' but 'opf:role="com"'.


Quote:
Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
Calibre doesn't seem to handle the dc:rights, but I also don't see it in any of my books. Is it a copyright statement or something else?
From the Dublin Core Metadata Elements set

Code:
Term Name: rights
URI: 	http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/rights
Label: 	Rights
Definition: 	Information about rights held in and over the resource.
Comment: 	Typically, rights information includes a statement about various property rights associated with the resource, including intellectual property rights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
The dc:contributor is what put there by the tool used to create the epub. Calibre will set this at appropriate times to itself.
The meta tag appears to be specifying the version of the tool that created the epub.
Sometimes one wants to edit that data by hand. The Sigil metadata editor gives this opportunity.

ss

Last edited by Sam Sahara; 07-16-2018 at 11:00 AM.
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Old 07-16-2018, 11:58 AM   #9
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Simply edit the OPF file directly. calibre is never going to manage all the insanities of EPUB metadata, it is not an EPUB application, but an ebook application.

And just so you know EPUB metadata is not that simple. opf:role was removed from EPUB 3 (see footnote) in favor of an absurdly complicated scheme that was in turn ditched for EPUB 3.1, where they brought back opf:role and as far as I know it is going to change again for EPUB 4. As such I really have no interest in writing a metadata editor for EPUB.

* Removal of opf:role in EPUB 3 http://www.idpf.org/epub/30/spec/epu...dcmes-optional

* And in EPUB 3.1 they got rid of the refines system entirely, http://www.idpf.org/epub/31/spec/epu...f-meta-refines

Last edited by BetterRed; 07-16-2018 at 07:37 PM. Reason: fix url
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Old 07-16-2018, 12:25 PM   #10
Sam Sahara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kovidgoyal View Post
Simply edit the OPF file directly.
Good idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kovidgoyal View Post
calibre is never going to manage all the insanities of EPUB metadata,
You decide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kovidgoyal View Post
it is not an EPUB application, but an ebook application.
The calibre editor is an EPUB/AZW application.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kovidgoyal View Post
And just so you know EPUB metadata is not that simple. ...
Your intonation is quite aggressive, and it is not the case. Nobody will oblige you to code what you don't want to.

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Old 07-16-2018, 12:51 PM   #11
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@ Kovid,
regarding idpf.org links. They start to be not reachable anymore. Here you will find some background information: https://www.w3.org/2017/01/pressrele...nation.html.en
This should be the adequate link: https://www.w3.org/Submission/ and https://www.w3.org/Submission/2017/S...ages-20170125/

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Old 07-17-2018, 12:08 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Sahara View Post
No, the first line was a message to you to pay attention to the attribute 'opf:role="com"' in the subsequent line; it is a DC element refinement of the "creator" element and stands for "compiler". The element refinements are correctly managed by sigil into his metadata editor, as you can see into the image: Attachment 165068


No, as I said the attribute is not 'opf:role="aut"' but 'opf:role="com"'.
Actually, you didn't. What you did was to add what looked like a random comment into some code and then not explain what you meant by that. Yes, I missed the difference in the opf:role value. It's a little bit buried in the code and without a clue of what you wanted, then I answered with what I saw,
From the Dublin Core Metadata Elements set

Code:
Term Name: rights
URI: 	http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/rights
Label: 	Rights
Definition: 	Information about rights held in and over the resource.
Comment: 	Typically, rights information includes a statement about various property rights associated with the resource, including intellectual property rights.
[/QUOTE]
As I expected and I see it so rarely added I'm not surprised it isn't included by calibre.
Quote:
Sometimes one wants to edit that data by hand. The Sigil metadata editor gives this opportunity.
Why? I can understand deleting them, but, changing them to something else seems strange to me.
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Old 07-17-2018, 09:25 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kovidgoyal View Post
Simply edit the OPF file directly.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for that comment.
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Old 07-18-2018, 10:20 AM   #14
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Introduction to EPUB 4

https://www.edrlab.org/introduction-to-epub-4/

Quote:
EPUB 4 will be a profile of PWP

EPUB 3 was created in 2011, but it didn’t replace EPUB 2 so far on most ebook distribution channels.

The WG charter states that EPUB 4 will be a profile of PWP, i.e. a specialization of PWP, with some additional features specific to the publishing industry (if any). EPUB 4 should be the ultimate interchange format for ebooks and other kinds of publications. It will keep most features of EPUB 3 (if not all), will make use of HTML5, CSS 3, javascript, media overlays, etc.

With some care and duplication of internal structures, it will be possible for a publisher to release EPUB files simultaneously compatible with versions 2, 3 and 4 of the format.

The modifications of such internal plumbing will not change much for publishers of simple ebooks and round-trip transformation between EPUB 3 (or EPUB 2) and EPUB 4 will be made available by the Readium community.

But EPUB 4 wouldn’t have a great interest for publishers and users if it was only a matter of plumbing. EDRLab will therefore push two innovations:

A solution for Web comics (and manga); an internal EDRLab Working Group has been created in June 2017 for preparing proposals to the W3C for such concept and structure; this will include page transitions and much more.
A solution for audio-books, currently never published using EPUB; an internal EDRLab Working Group has also been created in June 2017 on this subject.
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Old 07-19-2018, 03:37 AM   #15
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