Kindle Vella

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by ApK

I call this "I'm Breaking Up With You":

Spoiler:

Snort, lol. Yup. I know, the Laurell K. Hamiltons of the world don't give two hot damns if I stop reading them, but a girl's got her principles. (I didn't stop reading her around cliffhangers. I stopped reading her, because she completely trashed a great, unique little series with porny crap that didn't even have any plot value. I really liked the first 4-5 Anita Blakes, but then they just started to fall off ye olden plot cliff. I always found it a bit interesting that her plotting and mystery elements went straight to hell, at pretty much the exact same time that she divorced her then-husband. Hmmmm.....)

Originally Posted by DuskyRose

I could go with complete short/side stories, or prequels. There are a few, very short, side stories in Michael J. Sullivan's "Riyria Chronicles" fantasy series that I enjoyed. As well as some of the short stories in the "Dresden Files" universe, by Jim Butcher.

But I'd have to trust the author, and the stories would have to be complete.

Yes, ditto. I suspect that Vella is a loooong ways away for me. I have exceedingly few writers that I trust that much. It seems like those of us who've been fans of a given writer, etc. are always getting hosed for ducats. (And don't get me wrong, dammit, I want writers and publishers to get their whack, I do. But I mean, DAYYYAM, as an example, Simon Green, an author who's stuff I've read for years now, has Kindle books at $20+! TWENTY dollars? For a license to read 192 print paperback pages? Yup, he's gone on my "will only buy used paper copies" list, so that neither he nor the publisher gets a penny. Sorry, but, ever since he went with Severn House, his prices have become obscene.)

Sorry for my rant.

Hitch

[DNSB]

I was noticing that a couple of authors mentioning in their newsletters that their serialized stuff is available on Kindle Vella and on Patreon even at the minimum $1 per month. I guess that means that Amazon doesn't care about Patreon.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by DNSB

I was noticing that a couple of authors mentioning in their newsletters that their serialized stuff is available on Kindle Vella and on Patreon even at the minimum $1 per month. I guess that means that Amazon doesn't care about Patreon.

I wouldn't bet on it. Amazon won't even allow Vella stuff to be up on KU or KDP at the same time, so...

Hitch

[DuskyRose]

I did see an author state that stories could be posted elsewhere as long as they're not provided for free. They have to be behind a paywall of some kind.

It may be that Amazon is realizing that too much exclusivity would work against them in this case. And how do they police all the sites out there?

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by DuskyRose

I did see an author state that stories could be posted elsewhere as long as they're not provided for free. They have to be behind a paywall of some kind.

It may be that Amazon is realizing that too much exclusivity would work against them in this case. And how do they police all the sites out there?

Oh, never, never underestimate Amazon's policing ability. Their spiders are second to none, not even Gargle. If you have a file out there, they'll find it. They also do plagiarism checking and think what that entails!

Hitch

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Oh, never, never underestimate Amazon's policing ability. Their spiders are second to none, not even Gargle. If you have a file out there, they'll find it. They also do plagiarism checking and think what that entails!

Considering that a couple of years back, I reported some of my wife's ebooks as probably being plagiarized, I'm not sure how effective Amazon's plagiarism checking is.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Considering that a couple of years back, I reported some of my wife's ebooks as probably being plagiarized, I'm not sure how effective Amazon's plagiarism checking is.

Very effective. That doesn't mean perfect.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Considering that a couple of years back, I reported some of my wife's ebooks as probably being plagiarized, I'm not sure how effective Amazon's plagiarism checking is.

Weird, I thought I'd answered or responded to this yesterday, but apparently, I imagined it. :-)

What kind of plagiarism? Stealing the text, verbatim? Stealing the plotline and characters, but modifying it? Or...? (There are many options to answer this, sadly...)

Hitch

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Weird, I thought I'd answered or responded to this yesterday, but apparently, I imagined it. :-)

What kind of plagiarism? Stealing the text, verbatim? Stealing the plotline and characters, but modifying it? Or...? (There are many options to answer this, sadly...)

In some of the books, the plagiarist was quoting chunks of text verbatim plus stealing the plotline and characters with the names changed to protect the guilty. Another was basically changing the names of the characters and running the text through a thesaurus which led to some interesting word choices.

The other item that was more my dislike than hers was the amount of jumping on the bandwagon though most of that was not plagiarism per se. Someone is getting popular writing about whatever so other authors jumped on the bandwagon in hopes of sharing that popularity. What I disliked most was the ones that were labelled as science fiction when the level of science would not have made the grade in a 1920's pulp magazine.

[kyrilson]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Snort, lol. Yup. I know, the Laurell K. Hamiltons of the world don't give two hot damns if I stop reading them, but a girl's got her principles. (I didn't stop reading her around cliffhangers. I stopped reading her, because she completely trashed a great, unique little series with porny crap that didn't even have any plot value. I really liked the first 4-5 Anita Blakes, but then they just started to fall off ye olden plot cliff. I always found it a bit interesting that her plotting and mystery elements went straight to hell, at pretty much the exact same time that she divorced her then-husband. Hmmmm.....)



Yes, ditto. I suspect that Vella is a loooong ways away for me. I have exceedingly few writers that I trust that much. It seems like those of us who've been fans of a given writer, etc. are always getting hosed for ducats. (And don't get me wrong, dammit, I want writers and publishers to get their whack, I do. But I mean, DAYYYAM, as an example, Simon Green, an author who's stuff I've read for years now, has Kindle books at $20+! TWENTY dollars? For a license to read 192 print paperback pages? Yup, he's gone on my "will only buy used paper copies" list, so that neither he nor the publisher gets a penny. Sorry, but, ever since he went with Severn House, his prices have become obscene.)

Sorry for my rant.

Hitch

$20 for an ebook? Yikes. That’s highway robbery!! I’m all for supporting authors as I mentioned earlier, but that’s a bit much.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by DNSB

In some of the books, the plagiarist was quoting chunks of text verbatim plus stealing the plotline and characters with the names changed to protect the guilty. Another was basically changing the names of the characters and running the text through a thesaurus which led to some interesting word choices.

To be fair to Amazon, much of what you're talking about isn't, in fact, plagiarism; it's copyright infringement. Similar, but not the same thing. There have been authors that take another's book and rewrite it, in their "own words" forever. There's nothing new there. I mean...for example we've all read Austen in modern times, like the movie Clueless ("Emma"). Or again, with movies, Barb Wire is a remake of Casablanca. Sure, it's a sendup, but it's the same damned movie, when push comes to shove. White House Down is Under Siege, down to the helicopters-crashing scene. The list goes on and on and on. And how many times have we seen remakes of Death Wish? (over and over and over). Give me a few days and I can probably come up with a long list of books that do the same thing.

It can be proven, but it requires your wife to go after the perpetrator. Amazon won't do it; it's copyright infringement and if it's a rewrite, rather than outright lifting of the exact text, that's a civil suit. Amazon tries to work on it, but...

The other item that was more my dislike than hers was the amount of jumping on the bandwagon though most of that was not plagiarism per se. Someone is getting popular writing about whatever so other authors jumped on the bandwagon in hopes of sharing that popularity. What I disliked most was the ones that were labelled as science fiction when the level of science would not have made the grade in a 1920's pulp magazine.

Well, hell, that's NOT plagiarism, as you said. Theft of concepts? You can't even copyright a concept, or trademark it. There's no law that would preclude you from writing a book about a boy wizard. Nothing that stopped The Dresden Files, for example, back when Urban Supernatural Fiction was pretty sparse. Nothing that stops writers from having huge critters that look like, yup, sandworms. And writers themselves decide what their book is; I remember the late great Anne McCaffrey in a major dustup with an interviewer who insisted that the Dragonriders of Pern series was fantasy and NOT sci-fi. From Anne's perspective, a world colonized by Earthlings/humans, with genetically-engineered Dragons? What's not sci-fi about that?

Speaking of Anne, how many dragonriders are there, in fiction today? Pshaw. I remember seeing something...oh, that kids' book, Eragon and thinking "Anne must be having a cow." That work took...concepts...from many different books and movies, from Star Wars to DoP and on and on. Sometimes, it's the mashup that works. I'm pretty sure we've all seen some barely-known movie about horrible monsters that eat you alive, in an enclosed space (Alien). In some ways, how is that NOT a remake of "The Thing from Another World"?

I do admit the whole sparkly vampire thing is just repulsive, but hey, I guess I'm too old to go gaga for boy-band vamps.

Originally Posted by kyrilson

$20 for an ebook? Yikes. That’s highway robbery!! I’m all for supporting authors as I mentioned earlier, but that’s a bit much.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It damn sure is. I mean, as I said, with print, at least you can get some residual value from it by reselling it or trading it in a used bookstore, if those still exist.

Hitch

[Quoth]

And Star Wars was a mash up of Dune & "The Hidden Fortress" (Japanese).
Magnificent Seven is Seven Samurai.

Plagiarism is more than copying the plot. The Dune Film maker lost the case against Lucas over Star Wars.

Almost every Pirate book and film since Treasure Island is a knock off. Stevenson invented the Hidden Buried Pirate Treasure. It wasn't a real thing. He himself gives a thanks to Coral Is.

Almost every Shakespeare was a close copy. Only a couple are really original.

Miss Marple is a knock off of Miss Silver. Poirot (Belgian) of Inspector Hanaud (French written by A. Mason). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inspector_Hanaud

Compare Harry Potter with "The Worst Witch" Jill Murphy, "The secret of Platform 13" Eva Ibbotson and Boarding School Stories (Blyton's two series copy of others, see Chalet School and others).

There is nothing wrong with any of that. Though Disney tries to pretend they own all the PD fairy stories they've used. They have ownership of their names of the Dwarves. And people that think they can Trademark or Copyright "Winter is Coming" are greedy fools.

You can't copyright the actual title of a book. Loads of books have the same titles.

Actionable Plagiarism is easier to prove in a scientific paper and really hard with fiction unless the "author" is totally incompetent.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Quoth

And Star Wars was a mash up of Dune & "The Hidden Fortress" (Japanese).
Magnificent Seven is Seven Samurai.

Plagiarism is more than copying the plot. The Dune Film maker lost the case against Lucas over Star Wars.

Almost every Pirate book and film since Treasure Island is a knock off. Stevenson invented the Hidden Buried Pirate Treasure. It wasn't a real thing. He himself gives a thanks to Coral Is.

Almost every Shakespeare was a close copy. Only a couple are really original.

Miss Marple is a knock off of Miss Silver. Poirot (Belgian) of Inspector Hanaud (French written by A. Mason). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inspector_Hanaud

Compare Harry Potter with "The Worst Witch" Jill Murphy, "The secret of Platform 13" Eva Ibbotson and Boarding School Stories (Blyton's two series copy of others, see Chalet School and others).

There is nothing wrong with any of that. Though Disney tries to pretend they own all the PD fairy stories they've used. They have ownership of their names of the Dwarves. And people that think they can Trademark or Copyright "Winter is Coming" are greedy fools.

You can't copyright the actual title of a book. Loads of books have the same titles.

Actionable Plagiarism is easier to prove in a scientific paper and really hard with fiction unless the "author" is totally incompetent.

Yup, what Quoth said more eloquently than did I.

Hitch

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Hitch

To be fair to Amazon, much of what you're talking about isn't, in fact, plagiarism; it's copyright infringement. Similar, but not the same thing. There have been authors that take another's book and rewrite it, in their "own words" forever. There's nothing new there. I mean...for example we've all read Austen in modern times, like the movie Clueless ("Emma"). Or again, with movies, Barb Wire is a remake of Casablanca. Sure, it's a sendup, but it's the same damned movie, when push comes to shove. White House Down is Under Siege, down to the helicopters-crashing scene. The list goes on and on and on. And how many times have we seen remakes of Death Wish? (over and over and over). Give me a few days and I can probably come up with a long list of books that do the same thing.

I tend to agree that there seem to be fewer new stories being told in print or on the screen. And as for books, the current trend of mining authors from the 1800's seems to be gaining popularity. That Jane Austen didn't write multiple generation spanning sequels doesn't mean that they should not be written?

Most of the ones I was looking at qualified as what I've seen termed as mosaic plagiarism. OTOH, there is always the old saw about "steal from one source, it's plagiarism, steal from multiple sources, it's research".

OYAH, the dictionary definition of plagiarism seems to be "an act of copying the ideas or words of another person without giving credit to that person".

In the educational environment, plagiarism can be extended to include copying from yourself, for instance, by using a portion of an earlier work without the permission of the professor for whom it was produced.

Originally Posted by Hitch

I do admit the whole sparkly vampire thing is just repulsive, but hey, I guess I'm too old to go gaga for boy-band vamps.

I don't think I was ever young enough to go for sparkly vampires. Vlad the Impaler as a romantic figure is too hard for me to swallow.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by DNSB

The other item that was more my dislike than hers was the amount of jumping on the bandwagon though most of that was not plagiarism per se. Someone is getting popular writing about whatever so other authors jumped on the bandwagon in hopes of sharing that popularity...

Originally Posted by Quoth

And Star Wars was a mash up of Dune & "The Hidden Fortress" (Japanese).
Magnificent Seven is Seven Samurai.

There was a time when every first person shooter (even legendary ones like Star Wars: Dark Forces) was labelled a 'Doom clone' (nevermind the fact that Doom built on Wolfenstein 3D). Over time first person shooters became their own genre.

Same thing with Jim Dresden and Laurell K. Hamilton. I remember thinking Kim Harrison's books were clearly copycats. But now, urban fantasy is a whole thing. Not my cup of tea, but it is a popular genre.

Every superhero stems from Superman's popularity.

Bandwagon jumping is irritating at first, but it's part of the creative process.