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Old 12-08-2018, 08:24 AM   #91
fjtorres
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I thought the rules were clear:
1- Don't encourage copyright violations
2- Don't discuss how-to

Discussing possible mindsets/justifications should be fine as long as it doesn't endorse /validate it. Staying neutral is safest.

That sound about right?
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Old 12-08-2018, 08:26 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Thasaidon View Post
I also think that moderators could step in and advise if the discussion is getting to close to the line.
Exactly the point of my post.

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The problem with the current situation is that people are self censoring, which is the worst form of censorship.
Or the best.

To all: Please take any further comments along these lines to the Feedback Forum.
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Old 12-08-2018, 08:27 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by fjtorres View Post
I thought the rules were clear:
1- Don't encourage copyright violations
2- Don't discuss how-to

Discussing possible mindsets/justifications should be fine as long as it doesn't endorse /validate it. Staying neutral is safest.

That sound about right?
Sounds good to me.
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Old 12-08-2018, 09:28 AM   #94
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Two posts have been deleted. When a moderator says, "Take it to the Feedback Forum" it does not imply "if you feel like it, but otherwise continue posting here at will." Any more posts in this thread about MR policies or moderation in regard to piracy issues will be deleted without comment.

Last edited by issybird; 12-08-2018 at 09:31 AM.
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Old 12-08-2018, 11:49 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by DuckieTigger View Post
Format shifting by itself does not automatically fall into the piracy category. To turn format shifting (a copyright infringement) into piracy requires distribution or intent to distribute (e.g. make available for download) with or without monetary gain. Format shifting may or may not even be copyright infringement depending on jurisdiction and use case.

@DiapDealer: There is no countless shades of gray, they counted them as exactly fifty.
Technically, in the US, format shifting is not a copyright violation, as the Supreme Court decided in the Betamax case. Of course, the court could change their mind, but the most part format shifting and making backups is not a copyright violation as long as it's for personal use.
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Old 12-08-2018, 02:37 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
Well I'm sufficiently satisfied that the assertion that requires mind-reading is slightly less factual than the ones that don't.
lol, by definition, as it's hard to assign factual value to mind-reading.

Nonetheless, my experiences--even here on MR--are like yours. Endless rationalization as to "why" it's okay to pirate books. My least-fave is the "it's not theft, because it's copyright infringement" argument, (the legal speciousness argument) and that there's no "stealing," because the money (by the author) was never earned. Lovely bit of rationalizing.

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Old 12-08-2018, 08:44 PM   #97
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The use of the term rationalisations could be a little perjorative [...]
From the movie: The Big Chill (1983)
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Michael: I don't know anyone who could get through the day without two or three juicy rationalizations. They're more important than sex.

Sam: Ah, come on. Nothing's more important than sex.

Michael: Oh yeah? Ever gone a week without a rationalization?
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Old Yesterday, 01:46 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by pwalker8 View Post
Technically, in the US, format shifting is not a copyright violation, as the Supreme Court decided in the Betamax case. Of course, the court could change their mind, but the most part format shifting and making backups is not a copyright violation as long as it's for personal use.
That sounds about right for people manually scanning a book they own around the house (and hopefully keeping for evidence of ownership), but don't you think it would be another fight if one purchased an ebook book on Amazon and moved it to MOBI or PDF? The difference as I perceive it is physical books and media have a less restrictive license. Format shifting an ebook purchased from Amazon or a movie from iTunes would be really risky.

Assuming it is all the same though, this guy on Quora argues your hypothesis really well. I hope someone with the money one day takes it to court. Sooner rather than later as we know content licensing and the court system isn't getting any more liberal...

Quora link because the button is causing my page to freeze: https://www.quora.com/Is-it-legal-to...n-personal-use
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Old Yesterday, 06:43 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Pizza_Cant_Read View Post
That sounds about right for people manually scanning a book they own around the house (and hopefully keeping for evidence of ownership), but don't you think it would be another fight if one purchased an ebook book on Amazon and moved it to MOBI or PDF? The difference as I perceive it is physical books and media have a less restrictive license. Format shifting an ebook purchased from Amazon or a movie from iTunes would be really risky.

Assuming it is all the same though, this guy on Quora argues your hypothesis really well. I hope someone with the money one day takes it to court. Sooner rather than later as we know content licensing and the court system isn't getting any more liberal...

Quora link because the button is causing my page to freeze: https://www.quora.com/Is-it-legal-to...n-personal-use
In general, the idea that you are licensing rather than purchasing something is a legal fiction to get around the first sale doctrine in the US. You can put anything you want into a click through license. The question is will it stand up in court. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. It really seems to depend on the judge and how well that judge understands technology. (i.e. judges who don't understand technology seem to be more likely to uphold such licenses)

Scanning books for your own use is one of legal questions that hasn't been really answered in the US. The courts have ruled that scanning a book does not by itself violate copyright law. They determined that in the Google case. The next step is can you do it to format shift. It seems fairly straight forward to me that you can as long as it's purely personal use, but you never know what some judge is going to rule.

From a practical stand point, no one is going to charge you with copyright violation if you do so. Also from a practical stand point, very few people actual do this. There is a fair amount of work involved in doing so and it's not something most people would do. The issue is if you make the results of that scan available to others. That is a copyright violation.
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