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Old 07-11-2017, 12:14 AM   #46
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I guess I'm on the right track. It's taken me almost three, and that's just to comb through the physical manuscript! Then I've still got the read-aloud function, and all the editing pdf's I've downloaded to go through.

Oh, and as far as budgeting: It's looking like an editor may be in the works several years into the future... a lot of people have been coming after my money, and I've been talking to lawyers. May need to erect that magical shield of bankruptcy. On a good note: at least the credit-card agencies will finally get the hint and stop sending my "You pre-approved!" letters.
Oh no hun. Alas, those pre-approved offers will multiply. If you have awful credit, you get offers by the ton. They want that interest.
I wish you the best of luck.
Double thank you for accepting our criticisms without making excuses.
*Those offers came in nearly every day or it seemed like it after we had a trailer house repossessed.
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Old 07-11-2017, 10:40 PM   #47
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I guess I'm on the right track. It's taken me almost three, and that's just to comb through the physical manuscript! Then I've still got the read-aloud function, and all the editing pdf's I've downloaded to go through. [...]
To quote a phrase from the movie The Replacements: That's why wimps don't play the game. (Actually, the original quote might have been something sexist about girls not playing the game, but close enough.)

It's hard work, but not only will the book be better for it, you will be a better writer by the end of it.
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Old 07-12-2017, 04:52 PM   #48
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I wish you the best of luck.
Double thank you for accepting our criticisms without making excuses.
God, I need to learn how to proof-read my posts before hitting that damn "Submit Reply" button. Anyway, sure thing. There are some parts I'm not willing to compromise on, but others I can. There's a scene in Chapter 4 that I'm cutting down into a single sequence, for the simple fact that most of it is redundant and unnecessary. Still debating on the criticisms on "Prologue to the Apocalypse."

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To quote a phrase from the movie The Replacements: That's why wimps don't play the game. (Actually, the original quote might have been something sexist about girls not playing the game, but close enough.)

It's hard work, but not only will the book be better for it, you will be a better writer by the end of it.
I really hope so.
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Old 07-12-2017, 05:46 PM   #49
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If I remember correctly, I think my biggest problem with your prologue was some of the phrasing.
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Old 07-14-2017, 04:59 PM   #50
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If I remember correctly, I think my biggest problem with your prologue was some of the phrasing.
Well, either way, I think I have a way to fix a lot of The Savior Libra. What I'm going to do is open a separate doc, and put the titles of all chapters. Then, I'm going to put the synopsis of each one. Then I'm going to put TSL next to it (literally) and skim through the story. Using bullet-points, I'm going to summarize each scene. If it can be cut, it gets cut. This way I boil the plot down to the meat-and-taters. Sound practical, or risky (like I might make it too linear and simple?) I've always been a fan of sub-plots, but if no one else is, then I guess they have to go. Bear in mind that all my sub-plots, logically, contribute to the main-plot and, therefore, the ending.
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Old 07-14-2017, 05:28 PM   #51
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Well, either way, I think I have a way to fix a lot of The Savior Libra. What I'm going to do is open a separate doc, and put the titles of all chapters. Then, I'm going to put the synopsis of each one. Then I'm going to put TSL next to it (literally) and skim through the story. Using bullet-points, I'm going to summarize each scene. If it can be cut, it gets cut. This way I boil the plot down to the meat-and-taters. Sound practical, or risky (like I might make it too linear and simple?) I've always been a fan of sub-plots, but if no one else is, then I guess they have to go. Bear in mind that all my sub-plots, logically, contribute to the main-plot and, therefore, the ending.
In other words, you are pretty much going to rewrite the book.
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Old 07-14-2017, 05:47 PM   #52
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In other words, you are pretty much going to rewrite the book.
Ouch, that hurt. I'm not saying none of it applies to the plot. Sure, I started writing it at thirteen years old, and for the first five chapters I just wrote as I went. But over the past 6 years I've heavily revised it so even everything in the beginning is relevant to the plot. I'm still doing that to this day.
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Old 07-14-2017, 06:40 PM   #53
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Ouch, that hurt. I'm not saying none of it applies to the plot. Sure, I started writing it at thirteen years old, and for the first five chapters I just wrote as I went. But over the past 6 years I've heavily revised it so even everything in the beginning is relevant to the plot. I'm still doing that to this day.
Wasn't trying to hurt you. Here have a jelly belly. I just meant changing it up some.
Could it be you are trying too hard to make sure every reader gets every little detail?
Yes people do like sub-plots.

Hey don't take this the wrong way, but before you do to your book what someone did to a cookbook/textbook I picked up the other day, set your book aside and read at least 3 well selling books in the genre you are writing in. That should give you an insight into readers and what is selling these days.
Do your research. That means reading. 3 is the bare minimum.

Before you ask: there are many AMC's* that have never read a book in the genre they think they can get rich in. *scroll down to see what AMC is.

You may have already done that. If so great. If not, put your book in your wife's closet and get to reading. If you do not have a wife, find a female friend and put the book in her closet.
Just trying to keep you out of the Amazon millionaire club. (Note: that is book rank not dollars made.)

Anyway, there is my best advice.
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Old 07-16-2017, 03:10 AM   #54
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Well, either way, I think I have a way to fix a lot of The Savior Libra. What I'm going to do is open a separate doc, and put the titles of all chapters. Then, I'm going to put the synopsis of each one. Then I'm going to put TSL next to it (literally) and skim through the story. Using bullet-points, I'm going to summarize each scene. If it can be cut, it gets cut. This way I boil the plot down to the meat-and-taters. Sound practical, or risky (like I might make it too linear and simple?) I've always been a fan of sub-plots, but if no one else is, then I guess they have to go. Bear in mind that all my sub-plots, logically, contribute to the main-plot and, therefore, the ending.
This made me look up . It's sort of what I've just done. Well, I do not have quite such extreme intentions but...

I've just finished the first draft of a novel* and the first thing I did was a read-through during which I collected the outline**. And from the outline I can better see the overall arc of the story and how it hangs together. I get to review the timing and flow and see where there may be pieces that I've explained twice, and so on. Quite a lot of that happened just as part of assembling the draft, but more will happen when - after putting it aside for a while - I come back and do another read through with the aid of the outline.

So I can relate to what you're doing.

Don't be too quick to cut sub-plots. I am not a fan of the trite advice you see scattered around the 'net of "cut/delete/destroy your darlings" - which is usually described as meaning you should cut everything that doesn't belong to the main story. It isn't that simple. Any novel that tells only the main plot with no asides is very likely to lack interest, and without time for the thoughts and events that we all know intrude on our lives***, will seem artificial and will fail to get the reader involved.

The art is in working out which sub-plots you should keep. You want enough to make everything work and seem real and interesting to the reader, but you don't want so many as to distract the reader for too long, or to confuse them about what the main story really is.

But the real point, the real meaning, of the "destroy your darlings" advice (which it should just say) is: keep the story moving. Try not to let your sub-plots hold up the movement of your main story. Every chapter (as far as practical, without being silly about it, every page) should keep your main story moving.

Keeping moving is one reason why long and/or complex preludes can be a problem. At the time of the prelude there isn't a story, so there is no context for the reader to fit the pieces you are giving them, and no reason for them to care. It needs to focus the reader on what is important, and then get on with the story - incidentals can be told later. (Again, such trite advice should not be taken to extremes. It's a guideline, something to consider when you review your work, not an absolute rule.)


* I'm not sure if it is a novel or half-a-novel. It's definitely a discrete chunk of story, but let's not get side tracked.

** Collecting the outline last will seem backwards to many people, but I don't do detailed outlines in advance. Usually I collect it as a write, but that didn't happen here for reasons I won't go into now.

*** Which reminds me of a quote made famous in John Lennon's song, Beautiful Boy: "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." Apparently the quote is older than that, should be attributed to Allen Saunders.

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Old 07-16-2017, 04:23 AM   #55
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"kill your darlings", IMO, means that those elements that you think are the most witty and fun most likely are only witty and funny to you. Especially really clever word-play.
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Old 07-16-2017, 04:53 AM   #56
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"kill your darlings", IMO, means that those elements that you think are the most witty and fun most likely are only witty and funny to you. Especially really clever word-play.
Ah, yes, I should have googled to get the "kill" variation. There are a lot of them (not all use "darlings"), but they all mean to the same thing. There are a great many author-advice blog posts are devoted to the subject, and the ones I have read rarely mention humour (which makes me wonder who came up with the urbandictionary definition). A couple of examples from a quick ddg search: 1 and 2.

Humour in novels is subject of its own. Some people seem to have just the right touch, most don't - whether as writers or as stand-up.

ETA: If Faulkner had thought about being quoted he probably would have used an alliterative variation, like delete or destroy - just so he could please those that want to blog about it.

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Old 07-16-2017, 10:07 AM   #57
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In case anyone missed it, I started a thread for further discussion on Kill Your Darlings: Don't kill your darlings, just don't play favourites. Because I had more to say even if no one else did.

In my earlier post I struck out "the real meaning" because that's obviously wrong (or at least inconsistent with the thread I started, and we can't have that). But "real point" remains true. The point of any cutting, darlings or not, is to remove unnecessary text from the story in order to keep the story moving.
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Old 07-24-2017, 05:18 AM   #58
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I went to the other section to find your book but didn't see your name on the first page and there's too many other pages over there. Is your book listed in the book bazaar too?
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Old 07-24-2017, 11:42 AM   #59
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I went to the other section to find your book but didn't see your name on the first page and there's too many other pages over there. Is your book listed in the book bazaar too?
Todd, who's book are you asking about? What other section? We don't have a book bazaar here.
Also Lemurion and E.M DuBois both put their books in the Self Promotion forum.
GMW's I think is still on his device and in his head.
If you mean the Patricia Clark Library, that is only for public domain books.

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Old 07-25-2017, 04:44 AM   #60
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[...]
GMW's I think is still on his device and in his head.
[...]
Just to be clear: I do have three books (one series) published and visible under one thread in self-promotions. And some shorts under another thread. (I'd hate people to think I was spouting as much nonsense as I have without any basis/experience at all. ) I just haven't bumped the threads in the a long time.

Todd, there are search features available on MobileRead. Go to the forum you are interested in and use the "Search this Forum" option. Searching for "DuBois" (part of the name of the author of the OP - original post - of this thread) in the self-promotions forum will find you the book that started this thread. (No amount of searching will help you find the draft I was talking about above because I have not even mentioned the actual title anywhere online.)
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