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Old 04-29-2017, 12:24 AM   #16
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Oh, I am reading a fascinating book right now. "I married a best seller: my life with Arthur Hailey. "
She goes into detail about how much work goes into his books. The research alone takes at least a year. Each of his books was 3 to 4 years in the making.

Anyway, hope all our advice has been a help.
I don't normally read this type of book but I'm going to make an exception. I loved Arthur Hailey's work. His "Airport" was one of the first few full length novels I read and enjoyed as a child. The extent of his research always showed in his books. Unfortunately the downside of the sort of books he chose to write is that many of them likely won't stand the test of time. I do hope I am wrong on this because I think his writing deserves better.
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Old 04-29-2017, 05:02 AM   #17
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People keep patting me on the back for being able to take advice, and that's making me feel weird. As a writer- Hell, just as a human being- it's expected that one should be able to take criticism. I literally asked for it. I'd be a douche if I just flipped people the bird for giving me what I asked for. Does some of it hurt? Like a fork to the thigh. Do I see a bunch of stuff that I can use to make myself a better self-editor? Definitely. Like Lemurion's mention of Beta readers. I'm sure if I free stuff to people who participate in that, like releasing to them free copies of my original cover-designs or something, I could get some decent people to read it and give me their initial impressions.

Then again, part of being able to take harsh criticism might be because I've been trained for face my own mortality, disregard it, and charge on, so if the worst thing to happen to me all day is someone telling me I set my price too high, it's really no big deal compared to what I've had to do in the past. One thing that sucks about being an Infantryman: the rest of your life you can't complain about anything, because you've been in worse situations.

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Old 04-29-2017, 05:08 AM   #18
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I don't normally read this type of book but I'm going to make an exception. I loved Arthur Hailey's work. His "Airport" was one of the first few full length novels I read and enjoyed as a child. The extent of his research always showed in his books. Unfortunately the downside of the sort of books he chose to write is that many of them likely won't stand the test of time. I do hope I am wrong on this because I think his writing deserves better.
Would you recommend him? Should I go give his work a shot? I've never heard of him, which is why I'm asking. I know he was brought up in context of this thread, but now I'm just kinda curious if he's a good read or not.
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Old 04-29-2017, 08:02 AM   #19
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Would you recommend him? Should I go give his work a shot? I've never heard of him, which is why I'm asking. I know he was brought up in context of this thread, but now I'm just kinda curious if he's a good read or not.
You will probably find his work shows its age. He was a writer of best sellers back in the 60's and 70's and a bit later. He wrote good entertaining books rather than literary fiction. His technique seems to have been to research an industry very thoroughly and then write a novel based on characters in that industry and the challenges faced, usually during some crisis. Examples off the top of my head, apart from Airport are Hotel, Detective, Overload (Power Industry), Wheels (Auto industry), The Final Diagnosis (Hospitals), Strong Medicine (Pharmaceuticals) etc. All of these industries have, of course, moved on, though most remain recognizable and for the most part are still dealing with many of the same problems. I particularly liked one of his lesser known works, In High Places, based around Canadian Politics during the Cold War and a very interesting proposal to save Canada.

You may still enjoy his books. It depends of course on your tastes. Personally I do recommend his books and think they remain a good read.
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Old 04-29-2017, 08:23 AM   #20
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[...] I literally asked for it. I'd be a douche if I just flipped people the bird for giving me what I asked for.[...]
Most people on MobileRead have been good, though I've seen a few that have obviously been less than thrilled with their feedback. However you don't have to read far on the 'net to discover more extreme examples.

In this case you did literally ask for comments both good and bad, but the thing to remember is that simply publishing a book is effectively "asking for it" - so don't be surprised when it comes. (I've remain unscathed so far, but whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is unclear, since people like to see a few bad reviews so they know - or think they know - the reviews aren't all fake. )

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Would you recommend him? Should I go give his work a shot? I've never heard of him, which is why I'm asking. I know he was brought up in context of this thread, but now I'm just kinda curious if he's a good read or not.
It's a matter of taste. I guess that is true of all books, but Hailey was notable for his meticulously accurate detail rather than the inventiveness or excitement of his stories, so you need to be a fan such detailed work. Lots of people did like him very much - reaching bestseller status with many of his books, back when that still meant something.

Trivia: His book Airport was made into a movie of the same name, which was followed by various sequels ... which inspired the (comedy) movie Flying High! (or Airplane! depending on where you live). I think I've seen the original Airport movie once, and don't really remember it, but I've seen Flying High! several times and can even remember pieces of the dialogue.

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Old 04-29-2017, 11:05 AM   #21
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Most people on MobileRead have been good, though I've seen a few that have obviously been less than thrilled with their feedback. However you don't have to read far on the 'net to discover more extreme examples.

In this case you did literally ask for comments both good and bad, but the thing to remember is that simply publishing a book is effectively "asking for it" - so don't be surprised when it comes. (I've remain unscathed so far, but whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is unclear, since people like to see a few bad reviews so they know - or think they know - the reviews aren't all fake. )



It's a matter of taste. I guess that is true of all books, but Hailey was notable for his meticulously accurate detail rather than the inventiveness or excitement of his stories, so you need to be a fan such detailed work. Lots of people did like him very much - reaching bestseller status with many of his books, back when that still meant something.

Trivia: His book Airport was made into a movie of the same name, which was followed by various sequels ... which inspired the (comedy) movie Flying High! (or Airplane! depending on where you live). I think I've seen the original Airport movie once, and don't really remember it, but I've seen Flying High! several times and can even remember pieces of the dialogue.
I would also recommend his wife's book to authors. Lots of insight.
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Old 04-29-2017, 11:10 AM   #22
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At the OP,
You have been great about taking advice.
As a critic, I have been told many things because the "special" ones thought their error laden books were perfect.

I still think you have potential. Do let me know when It is finished.
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Old 04-29-2017, 08:03 PM   #23
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At the OP,
You have been great about taking advice.
As a critic, I have been told many things because the "special" ones thought their error laden books were perfect.

I still think you have potential. Do let me know when It is finished.
I have a little less than four-hundred pages to comb through (ebook-formats are what make it over 600). This was going to take two-weeks if I had all free time on my hands. Full-time employment and my fiancé taking up my weekends means this is going to take a bit. Plus I'm editing it twice: once physically, then with the read-aloud function on Word. (Going to experiment with that and compare it against others on how they all read the Prologue.)
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Old 04-29-2017, 08:32 PM   #24
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I have a little less than four-hundred pages to comb through (ebook-formats are what make it over 600). This was going to take two-weeks if I had all free time on my hands. Full-time employment and my fiancé taking up my weekends means this is going to take a bit. Plus I'm editing it twice: once physically, then with the read-aloud function on Word. (Going to experiment with that and compare it against others on how they all read the Prologue.)
Don't rush it. I figure you are looking at 2 months.
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Old 05-03-2017, 09:17 AM   #25
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What’s really difficult about it is slowing myself down enough to reach each and every word without forming the images in my mind and going into reader-mode, especially with how many times I’ve gone over it. The change of font helps some, but I find if I stay at it too long in any one period my mind goes from editing to reading, and I have to go back a few pages and start over again. So to mitigate this, I go over a single paragraph, then look at something else for a minute, then go back. Any other suggestions?
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Old 05-03-2017, 10:19 AM   #26
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What’s really difficult about it is slowing myself down enough to reach each and every word without forming the images in my mind and going into reader-mode, especially with how many times I’ve gone over it. The change of font helps some, but I find if I stay at it too long in any one period my mind goes from editing to reading, and I have to go back a few pages and start over again. So to mitigate this, I go over a single paragraph, then look at something else for a minute, then go back. Any other suggestions?
Copy out small chunks and review them in a separate application/document. When I am using Text Aloud I copy and paste maybe half a page or less at a time and I read along with the voice in the Text Aloud interface. It's arduous, but it helps me to achieve that disconnect from being reader.

Don't work on it scene-by-scene; deliberately work on chunks that are not whole scenes, this helps stop you from becoming a reader. BUT doing this means you may need to review overlapping chunks, so that you get to review the flow even across the chunk divide.

Don't try to do too much in one sitting. When you feel your mind wandering, put it away for a while and do something else.

Do one thing at a time:

I suggest you should be copy editing*. So you're not worrying about the words, you're worrying about the sentences and paragraphs. Do they flow? Are they correct? (Or correct enough in context - dialogue etc).

You will do another, separate, pass as a proof reader. Doing much the same thing but concentrating of words and punctuation and technical correctness.


* Actually, I strongly suspect you should be development editing - particularly cutting - but my hypocrisy will only stretch so far. It will stretch far enough to say that from my reading of the prologue you need to further refine - at least - the opening of your story. Getting your readers involved in the first pages is critical. And if you have not already done that to the prologue then I imagine the rest needs a good trim as well.
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Old 05-03-2017, 10:39 AM   #27
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Start at the end of the book and read each sentence in turn going backwards.
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Old 05-03-2017, 11:17 AM   #28
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What’s really difficult about it is slowing myself down enough to reach each and every word without forming the images in my mind and going into reader-mode, especially with how many times I’ve gone over it. The change of font helps some, but I find if I stay at it too long in any one period my mind goes from editing to reading, and I have to go back a few pages and start over again. So to mitigate this, I go over a single paragraph, then look at something else for a minute, then go back. Any other suggestions?
I normally read about one page a minute when reading for pleasure. It took me 10 minutes to get through your first page. So yes, editing will be slow.
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Old 05-04-2017, 07:38 PM   #29
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Hey E.M. ,
Here is the link to what I think a writer needs to know.

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...61&postcount=7

The sad thing is I have run into every one of them in self-published books.

Not that it will help with the editing but it will give you some ideas.
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Old 05-20-2017, 07:33 AM   #30
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Alright, playing a bitch of catch-up here:

I’ve head Grammarly for about a year now. Not willing to pay for the upgraded version yet to see what the “advanced issues” detected are, since I’m pretty sure they’ll just be things confused by the program, and not actual mistakes. Proof? My mix-up with homophones: not detected at all. Any of them. Yet every time I want to use a word to achieve a certain though (such as “he did not really like...”) Grammarly immediately wants me to reword that to something less impactful or otherwise misleading. Or how it freaks out about British vs. English spelling.

Also, I’ve chosen a new font to edit my physical manuscript. I chose AL BLANCA. Since I was never very good at reading/writing script other than my signature, I think it’s a wonderful way to slow myself down to catch these errors.

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Ok you said you proofread it, did you just proofread for misspelled and wrong words? If so you are probably good there.
Well, you’d think that, wouldn’t you? Unfortunately, that was not the case, I found to my disappointment. You know what’s really aggravating? 1 letter. That’s what makes them wrong. 1 freaking letter. An M that should be an N, or and E that should be an A.

NEXT! Homophones... god, I’m really beginning to hate these things. Let’s take a look at “past”: Out of 65 instances of using that word, I have used it wrongly (and should have used “passed” instead) 60 times. 60 out of 65, wrong. (Note that as I typed out this reply on Word, I edited a string of obscenities that reached into the next page.)

What I ended up doing was grabbing a .pdf from the web of the most commonly mixed up homophones, wrote up a document of their full definitions, forms, ect. of each, and combing through my digital and physical manuscripts to see which ones I used wrongly. Which... as it turns out... is most of them... damn...

Once I complete this step, I’ll pick up where I left off in the physical manuscript and continue editing. As far as editing, I’ve literally got my manuscript in front of me all the time, even when I sleep. I’ll comb through a paragraph, watch part of an episode of something on Hulu, go through another paragraph, lather, rise, repeat.

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Start at the end of the book and read each sentence in turn going backwards.
At least point I’ll do anything.

Just trying to say that, overall, I am taking advice from this forum and applying it to my work. Th effort is not wasted.

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@E.M.DuBois. I wish you success with your book, and congratulate you on your reaction to the advice given in these forums so far.
Urg, at this point, I’m wondering if I’m just wasting my life with this and just make it a hobby.
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