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Old 06-06-2024, 08:56 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by Sirtel View Post
Our resistance to color ereaders is because a Kaleido screen is worse for black and white content than the current black-and-white Carta screens - it's much darker and needs a lot more light to even approach the same quality. This is something you don't seem to understand, or don't want to understand. Why should I accept a poorer screen when I don't read any content with color on my eink readers? I read black and white novels, and want as good a quality as possible. Kaleido doesn't deliver it.
Even at the same brightness it can't ever be as sharp as mono eink, unless they produce 600 dpi panels. But those panels are inherently mono, so a new mono eink would still be better.

We don't mind people buying Kaleido. We just don't want the sharper and brighter and better contrast mono taken away, as Kobo has done with the 7″ Libra 2. The alternative isn't a Libra Colour, but a 6″ Clara BW or an 8″ Sage. The 8″ fits few pockets.
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Old 06-06-2024, 09:10 AM   #107
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Sadly, some members of this forum hold an elitist mentality, believing their opinions to be absolute law. However, you are not alone in this battle! On Amazon, the Colour has a 4.2/5 rating, while on Kobo, it boasts a 4.6/5. Almost everyone is giving the new version rave reviews, deeming it an upgrade.

I get crucified every time I suggest that the transition to Colour was beneficial. My theory is that the reluctance to accept change may be correlated with the average demographic of the forum users, which tends to be older. As people age, their viewpoints often become more solidified and resistant to change. Any opinion that contradicts their own is perceived as a personal attack and met with hostility. These are the same individuals who were hesitant to upgrade from a flip phone to a smartphone or complained about switching from traditional TV to streaming.
You guys shouldn't take anything personal from the internet.
This whole thing is not about being conservative. It is the exact opposite. Ebook readers are (were?) popular because they are very good for one thing: to read books on them, with the closest experience to a real paper book, with excellent readability at the same time more efficiently in any light/ambient circumstances.
If the majority will embrace colour readers against BW, then after some time there won't be beneficial to manufacture BW screen readers anymore. Which means you will have a slow tablet, with washed out colours, but at least the reading experience won't be as good as it used to be.
Of course this is just worst case scenario, and at this point it is not likely that will happen, just because there is no exact alternative to the Libra 2. Although if there will be no replacement for the Libra 2 in this year, I will stock up from its compatible batteries.
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Old 06-06-2024, 11:35 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by Apollyon202 View Post
...

If the majority will embrace colour readers against BW, then after some time there won't be beneficial to manufacture BW screen readers anymore. Which means you will have a slow tablet, with washed out colours, but at least the reading experience won't be as good as it used to be.
...
I'm not following your logic. If the majority embrace color ereaders, how do you jump to slow tablets?
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Old 06-06-2024, 12:37 PM   #109
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I'm not following your logic. If the majority embrace color ereaders, how do you jump to slow tablets?
I didn't jump, people do. A colour e-reader with tons of fuctions is basically a slow tablet. Or at least halfway there. I guess people don't want to just read bw books on a colour e-reader, right?
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Old 06-06-2024, 04:14 PM   #110
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On Amazon, the Colour has a 4.2/5 rating, while on Kobo, it boasts a 4.6/5. Almost everyone is giving the new version rave reviews, deeming it an upgrade.

I get crucified every time I suggest that the transition to Colour was beneficial. My theory is that the reluctance to accept change may be correlated with the average demographic of the forum users, which tends to be older.
I don't think the LC has great reviews because everyone thinks it's an upgrade. It's getting great reviews because the people who are buying it generally have not used an e-paper display before, because they weren't interested in a monochromatic device. They are therefore using the LC without knowing how much worse it looks compared to the L2. Is a Kaleido 3 screen usable? Sure. Is it a pure upgrade over Carta 1200? Absolutely not.
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Old 06-06-2024, 11:53 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
On your Libra 2, when you are reading a book with just text, what level was the light if you used the light in normal reading conditions? ON the Libra Colour, what level is the light in the same conditions?
It really depends on the time of day. Both my Libra 2 and Libra Colour are white, and I like to get the screen color to be as similar to the ereader body color as possible. So, I play around with the light and comfort light a lot. Typically for my Libra Colour I use it between 15% and 30% for reading novels, but if I’m reading an Asterix or a DK encyclopedia (books with a lot of color and small images), I will crank it up a lot higher, sometimes even up to 100%. I also have a third set of eyeglasses for very close work, that I often wear to see the smaller fonts in these books. I convert the comics to PDFs so I can zoom the page and fix it in position when flipping to the next pages.

Right now it is late at night and I am reading a novel in a room that is half-lit. My brightness on my Libra Colour is at 27% and my natural light setting is two from the top setting. This makes my page almost match the surround. I’m not checking right now, but my Libra 2 would have been around the same settings at this time of night.

ETA: Sometimes I also turn the light all the way down in the daytime, and increase the font weight a lot, so I can read with no front light at all. It reminds me of my old Kindle 4 NT - dark, but usable. (I loved the form factor of that ereader, I think it was my favorite, with the thin buttons built into each side).

Last edited by Pjama; 06-06-2024 at 11:59 PM.
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Old 06-07-2024, 06:08 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by Apollyon202 View Post
I didn't jump, people do. A colour e-reader with tons of fuctions is basically a slow tablet. Or at least halfway there.
I don't really care about the "slow tablet" part as long as it functions well as an ereader. Personally, I would appreciate some "tablet" functionality (bluetooth functionality).
[/quote]I guess people don't want to just read bw books on a colour e-reader, right?[/QUOTE]
I would guess that they use it for the content they read (novels, non-fiction, manga, ...).

Myself, I would use it for "bw" novels.

It would be great if they make both B&W and colour ereaders, but if the masses prefer color ereaders, ...

I there is a viable market for B&W ereaders, I would guess that they will continue to be made.
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Old 06-07-2024, 07:08 AM   #113
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It’s for sure sad that the libra 2 is dead, and that an inferior device is taking over.
It really makes we wonder why everyone is rooting for Color eink.
I can see the appeal for reading papers and have colourful charts or a rugged version for kids to read their Donald Duck. But last time I checked my novels are black and white, same applies for manga.
The good thing is that with Chinese companies we will have an infinite supply of black and white devices , not mainstream but they will be around. Same with mp3 players and vinyl players.
I hope this will not become an Betamax vs vhs situation
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Old 06-07-2024, 07:11 AM   #114
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I there is a viable market for B&W ereaders, I would guess that they will continue to be made.
Unfortunately many companies are run by accountants and marketing (crayon dept). Accountants should only be counting the money and analysing cost/sales/profits/overheads, not running a company.
Marketing are notorious at surveys that are badly designed and tell them what they want to hear and being driven by their own prejudices and preferences rather than what's logical or sensible.

See HP, Nokia (an accountant took over in 2003), Apple, IBM, Oracle, Adobe and Microsoft.

Or Sony hardware/SW products crippled by them becoming a media company (took over EMI and movies etc). Minidisc crippled (multiple ways), CD root kits, Magicgate DRM on memory sticks, Linux removed from Playstation, the PRS ereaders scrapped because they couldn't run a bookstore, the walled garden DPT eink PDF readers. Crippled firewire on some Sony Camcorders.

Amazon KFX and Send To Kindle and how PDFs work on Scribe. Deletion of thumbnails and sideloaded ebooks. Amazon blocking KU/KDP-Slect authors/publishers because someone ELSE has pirated the ebooks!

Most of it is stupidity, not malice, greed or real security.

Companies are only as smart as the stupidest person that's a manager for what ever it is. In most big companies people get promoted one step more than they should, or on the basis of politics, patronage, blackmail or nepotiism, not on merit.
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Old 06-07-2024, 07:51 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Quoth View Post
Unfortunately many companies are run by accountants and marketing (crayon dept). Accountants should only be counting the money and analysing cost/sales/profits/overheads, not running a company.
Marketing are notorious at surveys that are badly designed and tell them what they want to hear and being driven by their own prejudices and preferences rather than what's logical or sensible.
Kobo is owned by Rakuten, a publicly traded company with a duty to maximize returns for its shareholders. When an accountant identifies potential for improved margins in a product, it is natural for investment to be directed there. Consumers play a crucial role in influencing accounting metrics by accepting or rejecting new products, thereby shaping the market. This is fundamental to economics and the driver of capitalistic success.

Additionally, the higher price point of the Kobo Colour compared to the cost increase has likely improved margins significantly. Why would Kobo pursue the development of a BW model, which would need to be priced lower and thus reduce margins... it makes little sense from an economic perspective.
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Old 06-07-2024, 07:55 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penny View Post
Kobo is owned by Rakuten, a publicly traded company with a duty to maximize returns for its shareholders. When an accountant identifies potential for improved margins in a product, it is natural for investment to be directed there. Consumers play a crucial role in influencing accounting metrics by accepting or rejecting new products, thereby shaping the market. This is fundamental to economics and the driver of capitalistic success.

Additionally, the higher price point of the Kobo Colour compared to the cost increase has likely improved margins significantly. Why would Kobo pursue the development of a BW model, which would need to be priced lower and thus reduce margins... it makes little sense from an economic perspective.
So you raise the cost of the color model and make the B&W model cheaper. Problem solved.
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Old 06-07-2024, 08:36 AM   #117
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Additionally, the higher price point of the Kobo Colour compared to the cost increase has likely improved margins significantly.
We don't know. There could be less margin as the Libra colour and Clara colour seem cheaper than the competition Kaleido models (1 to 3 years old depending on model).

Quote:
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Why would Kobo pursue the development of a BW model, which would need to be priced lower and thus reduce margins... it makes little sense from an economic perspective.
You don't know how much the Kaleido panels cost. It's a monopoly source (a hint).

But prices are more set by what the market can bear, not costs. See Apple's margins.

Corporate decisions by accountants are often on the short term bottom line with no understanding of longer term consequences. Perhaps you understand economics as well as ereader technology, but this is the internet, not face to face chat, so I could be wrong about everything.

A mono Libra model would mostly be extra sales, not much affect Libra Colour or Clara Colour sales. There is a new Clara BW.

We have no idea why the Libra 2 has stopped, or why there is no Libra BW/2E/3 etc. It could even be a temporary issue at E Ink Corp.

We had a product in the early 1980s using a Plessey IC we had to stop selling because the part became unavailable. Eventually Plessey admitted that none of the chip production was passing tests, none working, and they didn't know why. It was contamination in the water caused by algae that was almost undetectable. Even though the water is filtered, double distilled and de-ionised etc.
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Old 06-07-2024, 01:28 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Penny View Post
Additionally, the higher price point of the Kobo Colour compared to the cost increase has likely improved margins significantly. Why would Kobo pursue the development of a BW model, which would need to be priced lower and thus reduce margins... it makes little sense from an economic perspective.
I'm guessing the color screen (since it's newer) is more expensive, so it's doubtful that the per unit profit margin has gone up significantly. But there's also sale's volume. Higher profit margins per unit won't mean much if you sell significantly fewer units.

I think you're assuming that those Kobo buyers who want a Libra B/W (replacement for the Libra 2) will stick with Kobo and buy a Libra Colour. I would say that's doubtful. More likely they would buy a 7" Era from PocketBook (even though they would really rather buy the Libra B/W).

A color eReader and a black and white one are significantly different. (At least that's the way I see it.)
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Old 06-07-2024, 01:53 PM   #119
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I'm hoping Kobo realizes their really stupid decision and come out with a Libra BW.
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Old 06-07-2024, 02:13 PM   #120
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I'm guessing the color screen (since it's newer) is more expensive, so it's doubtful that the per unit profit margin has gone up significantly. But there's also sale's volume. Higher profit margins per unit won't mean much if you sell significantly fewer units.

I think you're assuming that those Kobo buyers who want a Libra B/W (replacement for the Libra 2) will stick with Kobo and buy a Libra Colour. I would say that's doubtful. More likely they would buy a 7" Era from PocketBook (even though they would really rather buy the Libra B/W).

A color eReader and a black and white one are significantly different. (At least that's the way I see it.)
I agree with most of what you said. In summary, if a product has a better margin but sells fewer units, the profit will not necessarily be higher. However, I didn't assume that consumers will automatically buy the Colour. In fact, my first paragraph implied that consumer demand will be the driving force for the future of Libra models.

"Consumers play a crucial role in influencing accounting metrics by accepting or rejecting new products, thereby shaping the market."

If the Libra Colour experiences extremely poor sales, then no matter how good the margins are, the company will be highly incentivized to revert to the BW model. Public companies work for the shareholders, and consumer wallets ultimately drive future business decisions.
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