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Old 06-05-2024, 02:06 PM   #76
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As an older reader, I value the crispness and clarity of text highly, so I certainly hope that BW e-ink continues to be offered by Kobo and others.

However, it's clear from the response to the Libra Colour that many really want color.

I plan, at some point, to get a color device, just to see if my eyes will tolerate it. But I suspect my eyes will prefer BW for most reading. My eyes have always been very touchy. I cannot, for instance, tolerate a matte screen protector. I also cannot read on a tablet that has less than 250ppi without seeing yellow haloes around all black-on-white text. I find that I also cannot read in a completely dark room with front light only. I need at least a little ambient light. Dark mode isn't very friendly on my eyes either, unless I go to really large font sizes. It is what it is. I suffer from fairly severe dry-eye syndrome, and touchy hardly begins to describe it, LOL! I may find that I cannot tolerate a Kaleido device at all.

But I plan, if it appears that there will be fewer BW devices, to get myself a backup Kobo Sage, so that I can happily read on for a good while to come.

I even picked up a lightly used, one-year-old Pocketbook Era on eBay recently, for a great price, and will give that brand a tryout. I've always wanted to, and for $109 shipped, and the sunset copper color, hey!

Kobo is, right now, riding a wave of being the first major player in North America to offer color e-ink. That will probably change, and when it does, they may need to continue to compete in the BW device market as well as color.

I plan to stay open-minded about my BW options, that's for sure.
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Old 06-05-2024, 02:17 PM   #77
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"No future for color eink" - that is very funny. My Kobo Libra Colour is actually really nice! Not only of value for comics etc. My opinion is based on reading on it four hours every day for the past month plus. Reading novels (8 Patricia Highsmiths and others), DK illustrated encyclopedias, Asterix books (bliss for me on this device) doing puzzles, everything.

I don't even know why I'm posting this - but the way people speak on here, as if their opinion (and that is all it is) is the one and only holy gospel. I love my new color e-ink device - clearly I am exceptionally stupid.

Anyhoo - I will be selling my Libra 2 and Clara 2E as neither are needed by me any longer. My opinion is different from your opinion. But obviously you will think your opinion is the only one that matters!
You are not alone in your opinion. I, for another, am very pleased with my LC and the display quality when reading only B&W. I've compared it to my Libra 2 and honestly cannot detect any degradation with my 20/20 eyeballs. It is just as crisp and clear, to me, when side by side. That said, I do not typically read in sunlight so it is not an issue for me as it is for others.

Varying opinions are unique to each user. I've noticed that some of the loudest naysayers don't even have an LC.
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Old 06-05-2024, 02:19 PM   #78
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Maybe for luddites, color is the doomsday prophecy that spells the end of eInk. Kaleido is to Carta what cars were to bicycles. Bicycles haven't seen significant innovations in centuries; while they still get you where you need to go, they become more outdated each year. Similarly, eInk technology has seen minimal improvements between the Carta 1200 and 1300 series. The release of Kaleido color should have accompanied the Libra 2, considering the technology was already available in 2021.
The problem is that with a Kaleido 3 overlay, it makes the screen darker. So when reading a book, the screen is much darker making it harder to read. Also, some can see the speckles of the overlay when reading a book. The other thing is that the light may need to be on all the time and at a higher level then normally used. My Libra 2 can be used without the light if I have enough light in the room. But with a Libra color, I'd need to have the light on.

Also, according to some of the tests done by users, having the light on that high is using more battery then the Libra 2 and the Libra 2 has a less powerful battery. Also it is said that the get the screen of the Libra Color as bright as the Libra 2 (with no light) you need to have the light on the Libra Colour up to about 20%.

Many don't need color. I don't need color. I mostly read text. So I need the screen to be visible and not dark. I don't want to have to use the light when the room is bright enough.

Color is a step back because it takes what was a good screen and makes it not a good screen because it's now too dark because of the color filter.

Now do you get it why color could be the death of eInk if companies such as Kobo stop making Readers without color? Sure Kobo has the Clara BW but the screen is too small. I don't want a 6" screen. If Kobo made a Libra BW, then that would solve the problem and give users a choice. Right now, we have no choice. It's the Libra Colour or we jump ship and move to a Pocketbook Reader.

Last edited by JSWolf; 06-05-2024 at 02:23 PM.
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Old 06-05-2024, 03:38 PM   #79
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Also driving at 300 dpi instead of 150 dpi will result in obvious coloured speckles or diagonal coloured lines with certain mono fonts and mono dither patterns, because the 2 x 2 pattern of colours dots can't be turned off. It's a print on the mono eink panel.
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Old 06-05-2024, 03:42 PM   #80
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I also don't need color, but I need as good an eink screen as possible, as my eyes tire easily. The current Kaleido tech is not good enough for me, the screen is too dark in bright light (I sometimes use my Libra 2 with the frontlight at 70-80%, to get the screen white enough for me). If something happened to my Libra 2, there would be no replacement device for me. Of course it bothers me. I don't want a color ereader with a darker screen than my current Libra 2, as I couldn't read on it on a bright summer day.

Different people have different needs, and Kaleido screens don't suit everyone. That doesn't mean people who want b/w are just whiners and luddites. Kaleido isn't as good for b/w text for some folks and that's a fact.
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Old 06-05-2024, 04:35 PM   #81
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I accept that some people are satisfied and/or in extreme cases like more the Kaleido 3 screens compared to mono Carta for reading, but they most likely don't read too much or just simply hate their own eyes.

The main reason to use an ereader is the screen's readability itself in the first place. Kaleido 3 is an obsolete ancient technology for reading books, it is okay for comics though.

Hopefully Kobo will replace the Libra 2 with a Libra BW or similar. Otherwise they wouldn't have come out with the Clara BW, which is technically the 3rd iteration of the same device.
I would guess they just want to sell more of their flagship colour reader now and later then a Libra 2 (and hopefully a Sage) replacement will come out. At least that would make sense...
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Old 06-05-2024, 05:22 PM   #82
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I’m getting really sick of being told here that I am either stupid or hate my eyes because I have a Libra Colour. Or, a new accusation - that I don’t read much. It’s infuriating.

I guess people have to fight about something.
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Old 06-05-2024, 05:29 PM   #83
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I guess people have to fight about something.
We wouldn't have to fight if Kobo offered both color and b/w Libra, as there are people who prefer either one or the other. At the moment there is no option from Kobo for those of us who want a 7'' b/w device (no, Libra Colour is not a suitable replacement for me). So yeah, we're bothered by this.
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Old 06-05-2024, 05:36 PM   #84
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The Libra 2 is a gorgeous ereader, but maybe people should take it (the late appearance of a 7” Libra BW) up with Kobo, rather than making snide remarks about forum members they consider to be either delusional/stupid/not caring about their eyes simply for the heinous crime of liking color e-ink.
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Old 06-05-2024, 06:13 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Pjama View Post
Anyhoo - I will be selling my Libra 2 and Clara 2E as neither are needed by me any longer. My opinion is different from your opinion. But obviously you will think your opinion is the only one that matters!
It's Jon. The impression I get is that his opinions are carried down from a mountain top carved into stone tablets.
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Old 06-05-2024, 06:14 PM   #86
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I think people tend to just not be as careful with their words as they should be. It is a fact that the contrast on a Kaleido 3 screen is worse than the contrast on a Carta 1200 screen. Is a Kaleido 3 screen still usable? Of course it is. Are some people willing to sacrifice contrast in order to get colour? Of course they are, or Kaleido panels wouldn't still be manufactured.

Do some people prefer contrast over colour? Of course. Different people have different eyes. The people who are in that camp are concerned that Kobo hasn't released a Libra BW to replace the Libra 2, and some of them come off as condescending, but I don't think anyone who's acting in good faith would begrudge somebody for being happy with the Libra Colour.

Those of us who care about contrast are just worried that Kobo is going to forget about us if the Clara/Libra Colour sell well, and the Clara BW doesn't. We don't want "good enough" contrast. We want the best contrast possible to minimise our eye strain.
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Old 06-05-2024, 06:16 PM   #87
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People shouldn't make personal remarks, but it's a physical fact that if you take a 300 dpi mono eink screen and put a 2 x 2 pattern of printed coloured dots such that the pixel isn't entirely covered:
  1. You can't get better than pastel colours
  2. The screen is darker and then also less contrast at same brightness from turning up front light, which is above the dots.
  3. The colour resolution is only 150 dpi.
  4. The gamut (range) of colours is very poor. The quoted 4096 is not the number of colours, but all shades. Many will be very similar shades of murk.
  5. You have lost true 300 dpi for mono as the dots are always there. Less sharp than a mono 300 dpi screen.
  6. If it's driven at 300 dpi as if it's a mono screen, when content is mono, certain patterns and fonts will cause distinct coloured patches or lines. Artefacts are more severe than LCD sub pixel addressing.
It's not at all the only way to have colour that doesn't tire the eyes.
It's simply inferior to a mono Libra for ordinary novels, which is the bulk of ebook sales.
It's too small for comics or picture books.
The colour too poor for photos or quality picture books.

These are not opinions, but facts. Already the majority of ebooks are read on phones and tablets. Having ONLY color eink would make eink ereaders a tiny niche.

No-one can object to choice, that's having Kaleido as well as mono eink and people can choose. The objection isn't about Kaleido, but about not having the mono. Kaleido can't replace it without a massive loss of quality!
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Last edited by Quoth; 06-05-2024 at 06:25 PM.
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Old 06-05-2024, 06:22 PM   #88
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I think people tend to just not be as careful with their words as they should be. It is a fact that the contrast on a Kaleido 3 screen is worse than the contrast on a Carta 1200 screen. Is a Kaleido 3 screen still usable? Of course it is. Are some people willing to sacrifice contrast in order to get colour? Of course they are, or Kaleido panels wouldn't still be manufactured.
E Ink Corp has a near monopoly. This kind of panel is nearly 4 years old. There are far better colour solutions, but the majority of tablets have rubbish screen surfaces to save money and too small batteries to save money, so there is a tiny niche.

The people that want Kaleido have not seen the better alternatives and are a subset of those that want eink. It would be a much smaller group if Kaleido was honestly advertised. It's weaselly advertised.
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Old 06-05-2024, 07:01 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Penny View Post
Maybe for luddites, color is the doomsday prophecy that spells the end of eInk. Kaleido is to Carta what cars were to bicycles. Bicycles haven't seen significant innovations in centuries; while they still get you where you need to go, they become more outdated each year. Similarly, eInk technology has seen minimal improvements between the Carta 1200 and 1300 series. The release of Kaleido color should have accompanied the Libra 2, considering the technology was already available in 2021.
You're missing the fact that Kaleido *is* Carta, but with an additional layer that adds colored dots and the controller programmed to lighten or darken the areas the dots cover to get color. Kaleido is to Carta what a vinyl wrap is to cars.
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Old 06-05-2024, 07:51 PM   #90
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I did need a period of adjustment to get used to the different screen. At first I was even thinking I would have to keep my Libra 2 to read novels on, and save the Libra Colour for DK books, art and Asterix type reading.

I actually do have sensitive eyes and had a kind of 'uncanny valley' effect when reading my first novel on it, due to the slightly mottled effect of the Kaleido overlay. I trained myself to ignore this, by using colored highlights to distract my eyes. I was feeling nauseous, even, although it turned out I had sinusitis so probably a coincidence.

I can now read on it just as comfortably as on my Libra 2. I am willing to compromise somewhat on the background because having the pastel colors on a 'black and white' device seems magical to me. I fully understand how the screen works. I fully understand the compromises and handicaps of this type of screen. Nevertheless, I love it.
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