Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Formats > Kindle Formats

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-31-2021, 09:08 AM   #1
jhowell
Wizard
jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
jhowell's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,741
Karma: 45518723
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida
Device: Oasis 2, Fire, iPad Air 2, Nexus 7
Signs of a further shift toward KFX

KFX (Enhanced Typesetting) has become the dominant format for delivery of reflowable Kindle books by Amazon. Despite the shift to KFX, two major reading platforms have not supported it up to now: the Look Inside preview and the Kindle Cloud Reader (KCR). These both allow a Kindle book to be read within a web browser and use the same underlying technology.

The lack of KFX support in the Look Inside feature is especially problematic since it presents a view of the book's formatting that can differ significantly from what most readers will experience on an actual Kindle device or app. Extra work is often needed to fix defects in the Look Inside formatting that only become apparent once the book has been published.

The older MOBI7 and KF8 formats are also still needed to support older Kindle devices. However the last Kindle model to not support KFX came out in 2012, almost ten years ago. The number of those devices still in use must be relatively small by now.

There has been a recent discussion in another thread about new features seen in some English language Kindle books recently published in India. These books are only available to customers in KFX format and use a new hardened DRM scheme.

Besides that they also use a new Look Inside format that is based on KFX and so shows the preview with formatting that more closely matches what readers will actually see in the purchased book. While those books are not currently being made available in the Cloud Reader, possibly due to DRM concerns, it turns out that the new Look Inside is actually using the KCR platform to render the preview. It seems likely that Enhanced Typesetting support will be coming to the Cloud Reader sometime soon.

Although the option to publish books with those features appears to only be available to select publishers in one market right now, it seems likely to me that this reflects Amazon's long term strategy for the Kindle platform. Once both Look Inside and KCR support KFX there will be much less incentive for Amazon to continue support for MOBI7 and KF8, at least for newly published books.
jhowell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2021, 03:20 PM   #2
odamizu
just an egg
odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
odamizu's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,359
Karma: 2238734
Join Date: Mar 2015
Device: Kindle Oasis1 & Voyage, iOS
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhowell View Post
... Despite the shift to KFX, two major reading platforms have not supported it up to now: the Look Inside preview and the Kindle Cloud Reader (KCR).
I'm sure I'm missing something, but I have fuzzy recollection that Kindle for Mac and Kindle for iOS apps also use KCR renderer?? Or am I totally misremembering?

I know K4Mac will download and render KFX, and if KFX is blocked, it will download KF8 then immediately convert that KF8 to KCR and delete the KF8 version. Does that mean K4Mac has both a KCR renderer and a KFX renderer?

Also, what formats can Kindle app for iOS currently receive and read? Can it read KFX? KCR? (I'm pretty sure it can read old mobi and it cannot read KF8.)

I feel very jumbled here and may have conflated a bunch of things, so appreciate any light that can be shed.

Quote:
... turns out that the new Look Inside is actually using the KCR platform to render the preview ...
Interesting. How can you tell?

Thank you
odamizu is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 03-31-2021, 07:52 PM   #3
jhowell
Wizard
jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
jhowell's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,741
Karma: 45518723
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida
Device: Oasis 2, Fire, iPad Air 2, Nexus 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by odamizu View Post
I'm sure I'm missing something, but I have fuzzy recollection that Kindle for Mac and Kindle for iOS apps also use KCR renderer?? Or am I totally misremembering?
Yes, that is correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by odamizu View Post
I know K4Mac will download and render KFX, and if KFX is blocked, it will download KF8 then immediately convert that KF8 to KCR and delete the KF8 version. Does that mean K4Mac has both a KCR renderer and a KFX renderer?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by odamizu View Post
Also, what formats can Kindle app for iOS currently receive and read? Can it read KFX? KCR? (I'm pretty sure it can read old mobi and it cannot read KF8.)
Yes, it can read MOBI but not KF8. There are also lesser used formats, such as Topaz.

The reason for the lack of KF8 is assumed to be because it is based on an outdated version of WebKit and Apple does not allow that within iOS apps. KCR is implemented in JavaScript and uses use native iOS HTML support instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by odamizu View Post
Interesting. How can you tell?
By looking at the HTML content of the product web page. For these books it renders Look Inside using an iframe that gets its content from read.amazon.com, the website for Kindle Cloud Reader.
jhowell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2021, 10:23 PM   #4
odamizu
just an egg
odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
odamizu's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,359
Karma: 2238734
Join Date: Mar 2015
Device: Kindle Oasis1 & Voyage, iOS
Thank you!

Does Kindle for iOS app render KFX? Or just KCR, old MOBI (and the lesser used formats like Topaz)?
odamizu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2021, 10:38 PM   #5
jhowell
Wizard
jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
jhowell's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,741
Karma: 45518723
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida
Device: Oasis 2, Fire, iPad Air 2, Nexus 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by odamizu View Post
Thank you!

Does Kindle for iOS app render KFX? Or just KCR, old MOBI (and the lesser used formats like Topaz)?
It handles KFX as does the Android app.

The only currently developed Kindle reading platform that does not support KFX is the Cloud Reader and it looks like that is now in progress there based on these books. If that change happens then the only things left that won't support KFX are older apps and Kindles.
jhowell is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 03-31-2021, 10:46 PM   #6
odamizu
just an egg
odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.odamizu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
odamizu's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,359
Karma: 2238734
Join Date: Mar 2015
Device: Kindle Oasis1 & Voyage, iOS
Thanks as always for enlightenment
odamizu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2021, 07:41 AM   #7
PoP
 curly᷂͓̫̙᷊̥̮̾ͯͤͭͬͦͨ ʎʌɹnɔ
PoP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PoP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PoP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PoP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PoP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PoP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PoP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PoP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PoP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PoP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PoP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
PoP's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,934
Karma: 48809363
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: ♁ ᴺ₄₅°₃₀' ᵂ₇₃°₃₇' ±₆₀"
Device: K3₃.₄.₃ PW3&4₅.₁₃.₃
KF9

Apparently Amazon is releasing the new KFIX format today. In a continuing tradition, the format is also known as KF9 (per Roman numeral IX).

Notably the format is DRM free and after ten years of intensive development at Amazon it features displaying book covers as screen savers for a nominal subscription fee.

A demonstration sample of "Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Seas" special edition of is available for immediate download.

Today, this dubious backtracking from KFX has shaken the markets (and the minds), fortunately Amazon has comitted to only publish KFIX books once a year on the aniversary of the format creation.

PoP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2021, 08:22 AM   #8
jhowell
Wizard
jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
jhowell's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,741
Karma: 45518723
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida
Device: Oasis 2, Fire, iPad Air 2, Nexus 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoP View Post
Apparently Amazon is releasing the new KFIX format today. In a continuing tradition, the format is also known as KF9 (per Roman numeral IX)
Amazon's secret plan for KF9 recently leaked on the internet. It look like they are trying for world domination in the e-book market!

(April Fools!)

Last edited by jhowell; 04-02-2021 at 09:46 AM.
jhowell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2021, 12:59 PM   #9
Quoth
the rook, bossing Never.
Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Quoth's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,858
Karma: 33803360
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ireland
Device: Both Kinds: epub based makes and Kindle
/me peers at date on laptop. Don't have the cap for Youtube.
Quoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2021, 07:57 PM   #10
jhowell
Wizard
jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
jhowell's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,741
Karma: 45518723
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida
Device: Oasis 2, Fire, iPad Air 2, Nexus 7
I was mistaken about the new-style Look Inside only being associated with the books published in the Indian market. It appears to be shown for books that support Enhanced Typesetting and are Kindle only with no print edition.

I don't know if this is a new change or something that has been available for a while that I failed to notice. I would appreciate any feedback as to how long this Look Inside format has been available.

New Look Inside: BOB's Bar
Old Look Inside: Requiem Moon
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	old.jpg
Views:	176
Size:	314.6 KB
ID:	186316   Click image for larger version

Name:	new.jpg
Views:	171
Size:	306.0 KB
ID:	186317  
jhowell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2021, 09:38 PM   #11
jhowell
Wizard
jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jhowell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
jhowell's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,741
Karma: 45518723
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida
Device: Oasis 2, Fire, iPad Air 2, Nexus 7
Adding to the prior post, things are even more complicated than I thought. The newer look happens even for books that do not support KFX as long as there is no print edition for the book. Not having print appears to enable Cloud Reader to be used for Kindle sample rendering.

Those books that use Cloud Reader for the sample and also support Enhanced Typesetting will base the sample on the KFX format of the book (converted to HTML) instead of basing it on the older formats. The easiest way to tell that this is happening is the appearance of hyphenation.
jhowell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2021, 08:33 AM   #12
Quoth
the rook, bossing Never.
Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Quoth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Quoth's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,858
Karma: 33803360
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ireland
Device: Both Kinds: epub based makes and Kindle
And Enhanced Typesetting comes from epub2 uploads. KF8 could easily do the KFX so called Enhanced Typesetting. KFX is really about DRM and Amazon are wrongfully adding DRM when then deliver KFX and the Publisher has asked for no DRM.

DRM is an illusion that makes most money for people creating and selling DRM. Apple abandoned it on mp3 music.
Quoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2021, 10:45 AM   #13
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 64,044
Karma: 104133397
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, iPad 4, iPhone SE 2020, PW3
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhowell View Post
I was mistaken about the new-style Look Inside only being associated with the books published in the Indian market. It appears to be shown for books that support Enhanced Typesetting and are Kindle only with no print edition.

I don't know if this is a new change or something that has been available for a while that I failed to notice. I would appreciate any feedback as to how long this Look Inside format has been available.

New Look Inside: BOB's Bar
Old Look Inside: Requiem Moon
But you can still send the eBook to a Kindle that does not support KFX so you'll either get Mobi or KF8. I cannot say just yet. I might be able to get a hold of an old Kindle to test.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2021, 10:49 AM   #14
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 64,044
Karma: 104133397
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, iPad 4, iPhone SE 2020, PW3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quoth View Post
And Enhanced Typesetting comes from epub2 uploads. KF8 could easily do the KFX so called Enhanced Typesetting. KFX is really about DRM and Amazon are wrongfully adding DRM when then deliver KFX and the Publisher has asked for no DRM.

DRM is an illusion that makes most money for people creating and selling DRM. Apple abandoned it on mp3 music.
I've been saying this ever since KFX was released. Adobe is able to do all of the enhancements with ePub without the need for a new format. Amazon could easily have done the enhancements with KF8 and not invented KFX.

KFX = Kindle Format eXcrement.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2021, 06:25 AM   #15
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 64,044
Karma: 104133397
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, iPad 4, iPhone SE 2020, PW3
Why would Amazon shift to KFX when they would not even drop Mobi?

What's going to happen to al of those older Kindles out there that will never support KFX?
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
KFX to KFX to remove DRM Tomifonication Conversion 12 08-09-2018 01:32 PM
Shift dictionary to the bottom sautecambre Kobo Developer's Corner 21 09-25-2017 12:41 PM
Shift-A not Working in 3.0 MarjaE Calibre 2 06-22-2017 10:41 PM
Shift+Enter Bug? aleksei_iv Sigil 18 06-02-2017 08:36 PM
Alt+Shift+B copyrite Calibre 5 08-16-2012 03:44 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:15 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.