New Leaf October 2019 Discussion • Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency by Douglas Adams - Page 4

fantasyfan · 10-26-2019, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bookworm_Girl

I am terrible at interpreting poetry. I thought this Wikipedia article was helpful.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kubla_Khan

Thank you for that link Bookworm girl.

A major early study of Coleridge including "Kubla Khan" is The Road to Xanadu: A Study in the Ways of the Imagination[/I] (Houghton Mifflin, 1927) by John Livingston Lowes.

It is available free for download on Internet Archive and is well worth reading.

I love all three of those great poems by Coleridge and "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner" is utterly entrancing.

Bookworm_Girl · 10-31-2019, 01:56 AM

I wonder what Douglas Adams would think of today's technology if he were still alive. One of the things that was fun about the book was the nostalgia reading about old technology when it was written. Do you think that someone younger reading this book would find it funny? Does he stand the test of time with this series? I find this an interesting question because I read the book in the time period when it was first published, and I don't know that I would like it if I were to read it now in today's modern era at the same age I was back then.

issybird · 10-31-2019, 06:14 AM

I know comedy dates quickly; not only are the references stale or meaningless, it can offend. I cringe today when Ricky spanks Lucy, for example. That said, I'd hope they'd be charmed by the wit and even by the look at early personal computer technology. I suspect some of the images in their heads are quite inaccurate, however; do they have any idea how very big Gordon's car phone would have been? Those things were shoe-size.

gmw · 10-31-2019, 06:39 AM

Sort of funny how we can be nostalgic for something that was really only around for a few years. I mean car phones and answering machines of the type used in the story were both quite brief stars on the technological landscape. Indeed, the timing of Dirk Gently (1987) is probably hitting on the peak for both. Dependency and peculiarities of land-line telephones is something that I don't need to be nostalgic about, as I still depend on a land-line (as mobile reception here is dodgy). In 1987 there was still considerable optimism for what computers might become capable of achieving, and this story reflects that.

I doubt if Adams would be all that surprised to discover how far technology has progressed, nor by how little progress has been made with it - if you can accept my distinction. To see the Internet coming, and then to see what it has become. I think his involvement with conservation may have given him a more realistic outlook than many, but also means, I think, that the political landscape would have shaken him rather more than the technological one - but then he'd hardly be alone in that.

I think the technology of the book is both familiar enough, and recent enough, to still work even for younger audiences, although I notice that some comedy like this is considered amusing by younger generations on generational grounds (what those old farts used to get up to) rather than understanding the humour inherent at the time. But what else can we expect? (I see issybird made a similar observation.)

Bookpossum · 10-31-2019, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bookworm_Girl

I wonder what Douglas Adams would think of today's technology if he were still alive. One of the things that was fun about the book was the nostalgia reading about old technology when it was written. Do you think that someone younger reading this book would find it funny? Does he stand the test of time with this series? I find this an interesting question because I read the book in the time period when it was first published, and I don't know that I would like it if I were to read it now in today's modern era at the same age I was back then.

I think he would love it. He was one of the very early people to use Apple computers, and you may have noted his reference to them.

I think his wit would come through despite the older technology in use. For instance, the comments about the horse and what it thinks are lovely.

gmw · 11-01-2019, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bookpossum

[...] I think his wit would come through despite the older technology in use. For instance, the comments about the horse and what it thinks are lovely.

Indeed, especially:

Quote:

a perfectly ordinary horse, such as convergent evolution has produced in many of the places that life is to be found. They have always understood a great deal more than they let on. It is difficult to be sat on all day, every day, by some other creature, without forming an opinion about them.

On the other hand, it is perfectly possible to sit all day, every day, on top of another creature and not have the slightest thought about them whatsoever.

issybird · 11-01-2019, 06:09 AM

My particular favorite was the long riff on the horse's thoughts on his possibilities as he surveyed the pasture. It was his Eden. Alas, even to the snake in Monk's garb. What were the odds he'd go stand under the tree?

It hadn't occurred to me, but it brings up the issue of predestination. Did he have to go there? Certainly for the purpose of the story he did, but did he do it under divine compulsion or just dumb bad luck? Alternatively, is it a case of infinite universes and in all the rest of them the horse went anywhere but the tree?

Bookpossum · 11-01-2019, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by issybird

My particular favorite was the long riff on the horse's thoughts on his possibilities as he surveyed the pasture. It was his Eden. Alas, even to the snake in Monk's garb. What were the odds he'd go stand under the tree?

It hadn't occurred to me, but it brings up the issue of predestination. Did he have to go there? Certainly for the purpose of the story he did, but did he do it under divine compulsion or just dumb bad luck? Alternatively, is it a case of infinite universes and in all the rest of them the horse went anywhere but the tree?

These are deep and serious questions, issybird. I think the horse went to stand under the tree because Douglas Adams told him to.

gmw · 11-01-2019, 08:57 AM

Since there was only one tree in the field it was fate. Had there been multiple trees it would have been luck ... although, since we know that this world has a god, in the form of the author, we might say that the existence of just a single tree was divine intervention.

Bookpossum · 11-02-2019, 02:38 AM

Indeed - Adams certainly put that one tree in that particular field.

In looking for something else about Douglas Adams, I stumbled over a BBC recording of a Desert Island Discs interview he did in 1994. It covers a number of the areas we have been discussing, such as his interest in new technology, and he also reveals the particular work by Bach that he was playing while he wrote Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency and had in mind when he refers in the book to a particular work by Bach. It is 40 minutes well spent if you are interested. Here's the link:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0093qxj

Bookworm_Girl · 11-02-2019, 11:07 AM

Thank you for the link to the interview!

Dazrin · 11-09-2019, 12:44 AM

I finally finished this. No idea why it took me so long to read other than my general "not in the mood for reading" this year. I really hope I get over this soon.

I enjoyed it but nowhere near as much as I enjoy the HHGTTG.

CRussel · 11-09-2019, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dazrin

I finally finished this. No idea why it took me so long to read other than my general "not in the mood for reading" this year. I really hope I get over this soon.

I enjoyed it but nowhere near as much as I enjoy the HHGTTG.

I haven't read HHGTTG in years and years and years. So can't directly compare. But I did enjoy this. And I'm doing a re-read now because I think the first time through I missed too much. It's harder to re-read, however. My interest lags plus I've been restricted to audio books mostly right now (my old, first-gen Oasis died and had to be replaced with a shiny new Oasis. Which arrived yesterday.

) The only audiobook version is an abridged narration. Not helpful.

issybird · 11-09-2019, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dazrin

I finally finished this. No idea why it took me so long to read other than my general "not in the mood for reading" this year. I really hope I get over this soon.

I enjoyed it but nowhere near as much as I enjoy the HHGTTG.

I vastly preferred this to HHGTTG, going by my intention to read the sequel whereas I never pursued the other.

A reading slump is a topic that used to come here at intervals. They do end. There are strategies, but it's hard to say what will work for you and your particular circumstances. A buddy read with your daughter? Reading with kids is great.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRussel

I haven't read HHGTTG in years and years and years. So can't directly compare. But I did enjoy this. And I'm doing a re-read now because I think the first time through I missed too much.

In addition to the wit and the inventiveness, what I liked best about this is that Adams didn't condescend to the reader. He played fair, and it was up to the reader to pick up on themes and clues. It was a challenge. It made it a good book for discussion, too, as I could benefit from seeing what others caught that I missed.

However, I agree that the interest isn't quite there in an immediate reread. I'd like to reread it at some point, though, knowing where it's going. I felt the same way about The Natural; the depth could only be entirely appreciated on a reread.

Someday for both, but so many books....

Bookpossum · 11-09-2019, 07:16 PM

I actually didn't mind doing a reread straight away, as there was so much to catch the second time around that it was entertaining seeing just how much Adams gave us. It really made me appreciate just how clever and intricate it all was.

I reread The Natural while I was on my little holiday, but apart from picking up on just how many references to birds there were in it, I didn't feel I got so much out of it as I thought I might.

10-31-2019, 06:14 AM	#48
issybird o saeclum infacetum Posts: 20,229 Karma: 222235366 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: New England Device: H2O, Aura One, PW5	I know comedy dates quickly; not only are the references stale or meaningless, it can offend. I cringe today when Ricky spanks Lucy, for example. That said, I'd hope they'd be charmed by the wit and even by the look at early personal computer technology. I suspect some of the images in their heads are quite inaccurate, however; do they have any idea how very big Gordon's car phone would have been? Those things were shoe-size. Last edited by issybird; 10-31-2019 at 06:50 AM.

10-31-2019, 06:39 AM	#49
gmw cacoethes scribendi Posts: 5,809 Karma: 137770742 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Aura One & H2Ov2, Sony PRS-650	Sort of funny how we can be nostalgic for something that was really only around for a few years. I mean car phones and answering machines of the type used in the story were both quite brief stars on the technological landscape. Indeed, the timing of Dirk Gently (1987) is probably hitting on the peak for both. Dependency and peculiarities of land-line telephones is something that I don't need to be nostalgic about, as I still depend on a land-line (as mobile reception here is dodgy). In 1987 there was still considerable optimism for what computers might become capable of achieving, and this story reflects that. I doubt if Adams would be all that surprised to discover how far technology has progressed, nor by how little progress has been made with it - if you can accept my distinction. To see the Internet coming, and then to see what it has become. I think his involvement with conservation may have given him a more realistic outlook than many, but also means, I think, that the political landscape would have shaken him rather more than the technological one - but then he'd hardly be alone in that. I think the technology of the book is both familiar enough, and recent enough, to still work even for younger audiences, although I notice that some comedy like this is considered amusing by younger generations on generational grounds (what those old farts used to get up to) rather than understanding the humour inherent at the time. But what else can we expect? (I see issybird made a similar observation.) Last edited by gmw; 10-31-2019 at 07:38 AM. Reason: outlook not output

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10-31-2019, 01:56 AM	#47
Bookworm_Girl E-reader Enthusiast Posts: 4,871 Karma: 36507503 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Southwest, USA Device: Kindle Oasis 3; Kobo Aura One; iPad Mini 5	I wonder what Douglas Adams would think of today's technology if he were still alive. One of the things that was fun about the book was the nostalgia reading about old technology when it was written. Do you think that someone younger reading this book would find it funny? Does he stand the test of time with this series? I find this an interesting question because I read the book in the time period when it was first published, and I don't know that I would like it if I were to read it now in today's modern era at the same age I was back then.

11-01-2019, 06:09 AM	#52
issybird o saeclum infacetum Posts: 20,229 Karma: 222235366 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: New England Device: H2O, Aura One, PW5	My particular favorite was the long riff on the horse's thoughts on his possibilities as he surveyed the pasture. It was his Eden. Alas, even to the snake in Monk's garb. What were the odds he'd go stand under the tree? It hadn't occurred to me, but it brings up the issue of predestination. Did he have to go there? Certainly for the purpose of the story he did, but did he do it under divine compulsion or just dumb bad luck? Alternatively, is it a case of infinite universes and in all the rest of them the horse went anywhere but the tree?

11-01-2019, 08:57 AM	#54
gmw cacoethes scribendi Posts: 5,809 Karma: 137770742 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Aura One & H2Ov2, Sony PRS-650	Since there was only one tree in the field it was fate. Had there been multiple trees it would have been luck ... although, since we know that this world has a god, in the form of the author, we might say that the existence of just a single tree was divine intervention.

11-02-2019, 02:38 AM	#55
Bookpossum Snoozing in the sun Posts: 10,137 Karma: 115423645 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Melbourne, Australia Device: iPad Mini, Kobo Touch	Indeed - Adams certainly put that one tree in that particular field. In looking for something else about Douglas Adams, I stumbled over a BBC recording of a Desert Island Discs interview he did in 1994. It covers a number of the areas we have been discussing, such as his interest in new technology, and he also reveals the particular work by Bach that he was playing while he wrote Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency and had in mind when he refers in the book to a particular work by Bach. It is 40 minutes well spent if you are interested. Here's the link: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0093qxj

11-02-2019, 11:07 AM	#56
Bookworm_Girl E-reader Enthusiast Posts: 4,871 Karma: 36507503 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Southwest, USA Device: Kindle Oasis 3; Kobo Aura One; iPad Mini 5	Thank you for the link to the interview!

11-09-2019, 12:44 AM	#57
Dazrin Wizard Posts: 2,631 Karma: 73864785 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: PDXish Device: Kindle Voyage, various Android devices	I finally finished this. No idea why it took me so long to read other than my general "not in the mood for reading" this year. I really hope I get over this soon. I enjoyed it but nowhere near as much as I enjoy the HHGTTG.

11-09-2019, 07:16 PM	#60
Bookpossum Snoozing in the sun Posts: 10,137 Karma: 115423645 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Melbourne, Australia Device: iPad Mini, Kobo Touch	I actually didn't mind doing a reread straight away, as there was so much to catch the second time around that it was entertaining seeing just how much Adams gave us. It really made me appreciate just how clever and intricate it all was. I reread The Natural while I was on my little holiday, but apart from picking up on just how many references to birds there were in it, I didn't feel I got so much out of it as I thought I might.

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