overdrive vs Adobe ID

[stumped]

I dont uave the ka1 yet so am testing overd4ive with what i have.
After log in from my other tablet, i can get the borrowed book to work overdrive there, but there is no sync of reading prefs. I had to set font, ma4gins, line spqce qlp over again. I was offered a jump to last reading position though.
So it seems overdrive will share across android devices, just about, but will not let me read in a different reader app
I think i have the aldiko app so will see it that can unlock whwt bookari could not...

[stumped]

well aldiko was a washout also
for overdrive it says contacting server, then error : failed to authorise device
tried instead adding my adobe ID to aldiko and thaat was OK - it went online then said device authorsed, but it seems it can only handle having one DRM account set up
to test if that adobe really works I will have to faff about checking out a library book to PC into DE then sideloading it to tablet to open in aldiko with drm
but if the device can be authorised for adobe, whey can't it be authorised for overdrive - are there different requirements ?
pretty sure it is not a password error, I went through it twice, carefully , using what i used to log into the overdrive app...

[stumped]

but I am not testing the Kobo ecosystem or the Kobo claims
I am testing the overdrive system and the claims made for overdrive

summary: overdrive installed on 2 tablets. book checked out of library using overdrive app and credentials which downloads an epub to android file system.
that book is readable on both devices in overdrive but not in aldiko or bookari , though both those apps claim to support overdrive DRM
book cannot now be checked out to ADE on PC becaus e I get an already fulfilled by another user error
there is nothing in overdrive's blurb about such limitations applying
it may well be that with a kobo KA1 I can bypass the whole mess, but that's a different challenge. Here I am just trying to understand what can / cannot be done with overdrive and/or adobe and my library membership on the various devices I already own.
[ i may test the route of login to library with library card, checkout a book in to ADe with my adobe ID, then push that onto tablets, try to open it with the reader apps that have my adobe ID, but that's a tortuous route. I'd be doing it only to see what happens, but as a viable workplan for actual reading. I could also try login to library with browser on tablet and see it i can get an acsm file to download to tablet that way. then use that in aldiko/bookari- but i suspect it will not work. everything I read says i need to go via ADE to borrow books , or i need to use the overdrive system]

[stumped]

last update- then its back to the dark side. the legit options are a big broken mess
I go : library checkout -> ADE then copyteh epub to dropbox
NB the download to ade is fine ( I can read it in ADE and I can open it in calibre with help from alf)
from dropbox i export to downloads folder on tablet.
then I take each of bookari, Aldiko. i activate the tablet for my adobe ID in both apps and get OK - device activated.

but will the book open - Nope. Aldiko just says error. Bookari imports it but "open" leads to a "no tokens found" error .
the exact bookari message is
The document has expired W-ADEPT-CORE-NO-LOANS-TOKENS-FOUND

and just to prove the file was still ok at dropbox stage, i go ( on PC ) dropbox ->copy to desktop-> add to calibre . open - all good, thanks to Alf.

so the whole business of authorising android devices with adobe ID then sideloading the file(s) that are DRMd with that ID simply does not work, not for the apps I tried anyway. maybe it would/should work with a bought book but not a loaned book? - but I don't plan on researching that.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by stumped

but I am not testing the Kobo ecosystem or the Kobo claims
I am testing the overdrive system and the claims made for overdrive

Sorry, I misunderstood the purpose of the thread. And if that is the case, it sounds like you started this thread in the wrong area. Maybe you should ask a moderator to move the thread to a more appropriate area where you might find people who are using the apps you are trying to understand.

[stumped]

Originally Posted by davidfor

Sorry, I misunderstood the purpose of the thread. And if that is the case, it sounds like you started this thread in the wrong area. Maybe you should ask a moderator to move the thread to a more appropriate area where you might find people who are using the apps you are trying to understand.

line 1 post#1 - with v bad spelling
note to mods, if this is better poaced(sic) [ i meant placed] in some other sub forum pleease move it

it has evolved from then, as I got answers to how the KA1 will work and moved on to testing what works/does not work with other devices and apps. to improve my understanding of how the 2 systems operate. Happy for it all to be moved. it maybe that it can't be discussed as the exact DRM mechanics have to say secret, but I am not trying to hack stuff, just to understand it.
probably I've taken it as far as it needs to go, and that some tablets simply can't be authorised for some DRMs, despite what the apps offer. I am not entirely clear whether it is the device, or the app on the device that stores the authorisation - maybe that is one of the "secrets" that make the whole thing so frustrating and confusing. I will update only if I get a useful reply from overdrive.

[stumped]

update: well this more direct rote worked, though I don't understand WHY it worked when the other routes did not:
i returned the book from the overdrive app. then I went to my library using the tablet browser and checked it out again, then went to the my loans page and selected download epub.
I geta warning verdrive app needed to authorise on this device: confirm YES
then I get a list of apps that can perfomr the "open" and instead of chooseing overdrive I choose bookari. ( which I had previously given my adobe ID to ) . it opened and is readable in bookari and is showing the correct loan length.
so I am guessing the book has to be bound to a specific app when 1st downloaded and thereafter it will open only in that app. i wonder what will happen if I now sync it to bookari cloud and try to read it in bookari on my other tablet....

anyway - this was library to tablet - with no PC in the loop -and no need to buy the KA1 to makje ti happen so I guess its a result of sorts
Meanwhile overdrive replied to say "we don't support helping you to get overdrive to work with other apps" -blah blah. so its a fragmented ecosystem in which overdrive, adobe, app makers can all blame each other and duck any responsibility for making stuff work- maybe they studied UK railways for how to do it

[DNSB]

Once again, when you check out a book from your library and sync it to your Kobo KA1 or app, the book is not supplied by the library but rather from the Kobo bookstore. The DRM on those books is Kobo's proprietary scheme and not the Adobe ADEPT DRM used when you download books from your library using an .acsm file which is then opened and fulfilled by ADE or other program.

It should not be a surprise that a program using ADEPT DRM is not able to open an book using a different DRM scheme.

[stumped]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Once again, when you check out a book from your library and sync it to your Kobo KA1 or app, the book is not supplied by the library but rather from the Kobo bookstore. .

er no - not when I am not using a kobo device, surely. In the examples above i used samsung/ amazon android tablets, chrome browser, overdrive for android, bookari, aldko apps.
and my successful route of library _>tablet->bookari, with no pc involved, used only adobe ID library login and activation on tablet

( as previously explained, I moved on from the kobo question to test DRM with the( non Kobo) tablets and apps I already have). I get that the KA1 uses kobo bookstore inits solution. I wanted to challenge the claimed " uniqueness" of begin able to get a library book onto a reader without a PC; and eventually i found a method that worked on both of my tablets, which does not depend on the book also being in the Kobo store ]

what is now clear is that the DRM magic occurs at the " open with" stage which i choose download epub from the library : my loans page, Only the app I select at the point can open the book:, locating the file downloaded onto the tablet and opining it in another app with the same adobe ID does not work.
I had to force an " always ask" in my android default apps to appear that that download epub stage, otherwise downloads were going to the last used app automatically, and I needed to switch it around between overdrive and Bookari.[ I could not get aldiko to appear as a candidate ]

PS bookari cloud: Letting bookari move the book to its sync folder & copy to cloud was OK, opening it from cloud on the ohter tablet fails - the DRM cnnot travel via their cloud

PPS aldiko premium - no one told them we have libraries in England ?. tried going to library direct from aldiko- but the find library function cannot find UK and the only England match is one in New England USA - stupid in an app sold in UK app stores.

[stumped]

what makes all of the above kinda pointless though, except as a proof of concept is that Bookari is a terrible reader for most library loans. It is good for bookes that you can edit and remove all line heights from the CSS, but its themes will not override the line height code in many library books and so you get horrible squashed up lines.
that does not happen in overdrive/libby.
it is actually better ( one you get used the to the apps UI )- to install either overdrive or libby, log into your library from your tablet browser of choice ( I used chrome) - either with an overdrive account or with your library card - checkout, download and read epub books in libby or overdrive. I discovered that libby can do my preferred 2 column landscape mode after some prodding, and they claim it is a work in progress with more features and display options to come
this should work for any android device - no PC needed. I already had an adobe ID but you should be able to get one using a device browser to visit adobe, for an end-to-end no-PC-needed solution
and, with bookari eliminated, all apps used in the above solution are free.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by stumped

er no - not when I am not using a kobo device, surely. In the examples above i used samsung/ amazon android tablets, chrome browser, overdrive for android, bookari, aldko apps.

Syncing with the Kobo store is only for Kobo devices and apps. The other devices/apps are going to have to go the .acsm file/ADE or equivalent route which means your book comes from the library servers. This pretty much excludes any connection with the Kobo store. Which leads to wondering what this discussion is doing in a Kobo forum though thread drift is pretty much a way of life on Mobileread. <shrug>

The only real advantages to me in using the KA1/Overdrive route are that I can checkout a library book using my KA1 and sync it to all my Kobo devices/apps without having to connect each to my laptop and, if my security consciousness fails, I can get a new book from a coffee shop hotspot without needing to grab my laptop.

[stumped]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Only for Kobo devices and apps. The other devices/apps are going to have to go the .acsm file/ADE or equivalent route which means your book comes from the library.

still working on it. each of my library/the overdrive app / PC browser have 2 sign in options: with my library card or with my overdrive account
I cannot yet find a combo that lets me start reading a library book in libby, and then lets me also download a copy into ADE on the PC , or vice versa - I get " fulfilled by another user" even though the credentials match. I have emailed libby support to ask if this by design or if there is a way.
I can download in libby on tablet 1, and them do the same on tablet 2 though, and last page syncs OK , I think

I think I tried every sign in permutation , but maybe I missed one. also, libby stores both sets of credentials so it's not obvious which one it actaully uses or if that matters.


I think opinions differ for the Kobo KA1 loan route as to whether that allows a copy of a given book to download to ADE, after the book has checked out via the KA1 + kobo shop route ?. I cannot test that until I buy the KA1

last one: I cannot find any info about the overdrive "read format", except the blindingly obvious statement that it is a format designed to let you read ebooks in a browser. I would like to understand who creates the read format versions and how ( from an author's perspective) and is there anything that read can do that epub2 cannot , or vice versa. but I cannot find any technical comparison articles
knowing where / how libby stores fonts on tablets, with a view to adding some, is another nice to have - but I suspect there is no easy way It is not seeing my extra fonts in the android system fonts folder. and it offers just serif or non serif in the custom reading settings screen

[stumped]

another day another test: this multi device route just worked in this direction:
PC: sign out of library, sign in wth overdrive [ all of that in chrome browser] , checkout and download an epub book ( which then appears in ADE library on the PC )
now go to tablet, to libby, find my loans, try reading that book: it worked.

it would be so mush easier to understand this stiff if I knew a little bit more about what goes on under the bonnet: e.f. when on the PC I signed in with my overdrive account, why did the book go to ADE anyway. Is overdrive just a container format ( a bit like MKV) and its actually using adobe security under the bonnet ? it must be as I can see an new ascm licence file for that book created in "my downloads" , left there by using chrome browser to run the process. [ i looked inside that acsm but it does not show my adobe ID in clear anywhere, it has a gibberish looking auth code - like <fulfillmentToken fulfillmentType="loan" auth="user" xmlns="http://ns.adobe.com/adept">
<distributor>urn:uuid:f1227b83-f91b-4f30-9ae2-0f65ffeea9ac</distributor>

so is overdrive using "my" adobe ID - the one in my PC's registry, that I know the credentials for, or does it create one of its own, known to any device that I sign into overdrive on?.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by stumped

I think opinions differ for the Kobo KA1 loan route as to whether that allows a copy of a given book to download to ADE, after the book has checked out via the KA1 + kobo shop route ?. I cannot test that until I buy the KA1

No need for an opinion for me. I can checkout the book on my KA1, sync a copy, go to the library website and download a copy on multiple devices as long as those devices are using my Adobe ID up to a maximum of 5 devices. I seldom use my Overdrive ID except when testing so can't say what that would do though the Overdrive ID seems to connect to the library using my library credentials so should make no difference.

[stumped]

i did a bit more reading arround, and it seems that my overdrive account should have asked for my adobe ID the 1st time I used it ( thought I don't remember that happening) . This was from overdrive help pages. it says that when you checkout with overdrive, it is using adobe ADE, but the device is authed to overdrive not to your personal adobe ID - confusing - YEP !
i wish there was a comprehensive how it works site - that explained stuff better than overdrive's own pages do
i was reading this but i still get confused over what is being authorsied : an app, a device, or some matching pair ?
i also noted in passing , in more testing, that although I can get the same loan book working in libby on both my tablets, I can only return it from libby on the tablet that did the checkout, not from the other one, so some info must be unique to the checkout device and never synced.
https://help.overdrive.com/customer/...ticles/2107286

How to authorize the OverDrive app with an Adobe ID

"Authorizing" the OverDrive app allows you to download DRM-protected eBooks. Newer versions of the OverDrive app (v3.0+) require you to sign in when you first open the app, which automatically authorizes it. If you like, you can change your authorization (after you sign in) to use an Adobe ID instead. You might want to do this if you've downloaded eBooks to other devices using your Adobe ID and you'd like to download the same eBooks to the OverDrive app.

In the older (legacy) version of the OverDrive app (v2.6.6), you can't sign into the app to authorize it. Instead, you'll be prompted to authorize it with an Adobe ID the first time you try downloading a DRM-protected eBook.