Kobo, Kindle, KOReader and hyphenation

[roger64]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Buying a Kindle in order to read EPUB seems rather foolish to me.
If you really find converting to AZW3 to be an intolerable burden, you should have stuck with a device fundamentally meant to read EPUB.

KOReader is not as featureful as either the Kindle or Kobo stock firmware, AFAIK. (e.g. highlights and notes)
And I would be cautious about buying a device that doesn't have the capability out of the box to do what I want it to do.

@eschwartz
It's the second time in two weeks that you qualify my posts as foolish (or "on the point of foolishness). You can disagree with my views and stay urbane if it's not too much to ask for. I cast no doubt about your mental health.

Koreader is my app of choice for reading ebooks on the Kobo. I use it for about 95% of my books. The remaining are some books with a very complicated layout.

For your information, as far as "highlights" are concerned, which are according to you "not as featureful", you probably don't know that Koreader allows you to use the Evernote plugin (with the web clipper) which is very handy for this purpose and better than what Kobo offers. I am used this way to get the highlights on my Linux. Here is an old screenshot of mine about it. Koreader also allows very quick OTA incremental updates which are missing on Kobo. It can connect to Calibre OPDS. It's much more flexible for reading PDF... You can totally customize its mini-bar (screenshot) and many other things.



I bought this damned Kindle PW3 at a time (5th of October) when the 5.6.5 jailbreak was announced - or expected - to be released on the 31st of October 2015.

[roger64]

Two more points if I may

About "featureful firmware"

If I am not mistaken, the main purpose of these ebook readers is to facilitate reading. Should I congratulate Amazon to have at long last discovered in 2015 that hyphenation existed? We had to wait the release of KFX format for this.

But, wait, if you convert now your EPUB to Kindle format, you'll convert at best to azw3 because kfx is still undocumented. So you'll need a second conversion run with "hyphenate this" to add this feature. In short you need the equivalent of a walking stick.

For Koreader, do you know that hyphenation works automatically for all EPUB? (at least in many languages, among them English and French). We just have to select a configuration file.

"Featureful"... mmm. We have to take your words with a grain of salt.

About "being cautious"

Then you tell me "And I would be cautious about buying a device that doesn't have the capability out of the box to do what I want it to do."

I am afraid this statement does not make much sense: the choice is buying the PW3 before or after the jailbreak has been released.

- If I buy the PW3 after the 5.6.5 jailbreak has been released, it may very probably be too late because at that time Amazon will have plugged this awful security hole and the jailbreak will not work anymore with the new firmware version.
- If I buy it before... well, I just did it. Too early?

So, dear, cautious, sure, when?

[eschwartz]

Fortunately, I believe both of my posts were polite to the full extent of the forum guidelines. (I referenced behaviors and actions that seem to me to be unwise. I did not insult you personally.)

And featureful aside (though I think you will find that few people care in the least about typography of any sort) you may have missed my point, which is, don't buy a device unless you know, today, that it can already do what you want it to do.
Paying for a device when circumstances beyond your personal control might render it as useless to you as a paperweight, is unwise regardless of who the rhetorical "you" is.

Thus my advice: anyone who finds the default Kindle reading firmware onerous, or finds converting EPUB ==> AZW3 intolerable, should not buy a Kindle Paperweight.

[roger64]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Fortunately, I believe both of my posts were polite to the full extent of the forum guidelines. (I referenced behaviors and actions that seem to me to be unwise. I did not insult you personally.)

You know perfectly well what I mean about the choice of your adjectives.

Thus my advice: anyone who finds the default Kindle reading firmware onerous, or finds converting EPUB ==> AZW3 intolerable, should not buy a Kindle Paperweight.

I asked you when? You reply me: never, don't buy a Paperwhite. If you are coherent, you should ask MobileRead to delete this controversial Kindle Koreader forum, which says that Koreader is "native" to Kindle as it clearly entice future users to perform "unwise" actions of this kind.

I bought the Kindle because it has been reported to have an excellent hardware. I did not care about its software because I did hope (see above) that I could use a good alternative. BTW I see that you wisely dropped your "featureful" argument... For the time being, as my Kobo Glo is working well, I do not need the Paperwhite 3. I did test it however in the very first days and it's not difficult at all to convert some books. Just an unpleasant and for me useless chore. Should my Glo fail, I would probably use the Kindle this way, until I get a new replacement.

My only grief with Kindle is not price nor conversion, it is that it's still locked for this particular 5.6.5. firmware version. It's a jail. It's mine and it's not mine. Do you understand?

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by roger64

You know perfectly well what I mean about the choice of your adjectives.



I asked you when? You reply me: never, don't buy a Paperwhite. If you are coherent, you should ask MobileRead to delete this controversial Kindle Koreader forum, which says that Koreader is "native" to Kindle as it clearly entice future users to perform "unwise" actions of this kind.

I bought the Kindle because it has been reported to have an excellent hardware. I did not care about its software because I did hope (see above) that I could use a good alternative. BTW I see that you wisely dropped your "featureful" argument... For the time being, as my Kobo Glo is working well, I do not need the Paperwhite 3. I did test it however in the very first days and it's not difficult at all to convert some books. Just an unpleasant and for me useless chore. Should my Glo fail, I would probably use the Kindle this way, until I get a new replacement.

My only grief with Kindle is not price nor conversion, it is that it's still locked for this particular 5.6.5. firmware version. It's a jail. It's mine and it's not mine. Do you understand?

I am confused.
You were forced to buy a Paperwhite at a certain time or did you just buy it?
You said you bought it because you thought it was going to be out of jail at a later date.
That just doesn't make sense to me.

But then I own several different ereaders including a slick. It is heavy and works better as an mp3 player. It is great for putting single recipes on because it has a stay on feature so I don't have to worry about it switching off when I have dirty fingers.

[barryem]

When I was a kid I got in a fight with another kid because he said something and I said the opposite. He decided I was calling him a liar and nothing I said would convince him otherwise. I really didn't think he was a liar. I just disagreed with what he said. Because of his determined misunderstanding I had to beat the poor guy up. Well, at least that's my story and since I haven't seen him for probably 65 years I'm sticking to it.

Saying an idea is foolish isn't quite the same thing as saying the person who suggested it is foolish. It seems foolish to get upset about that.

I find that this is a pretty friendly forum but it's one in which people speak their mind and aren't always extra careful about how they do it, which I think is as it should be. It makes it a lot easier to express ourselves. If we have to go through everything with a fine tooth comb to get rid of anything that might possibly offend someone we'd not only be a lot less expressive, we might even be accused of being (shudder) politically correct.

Barry

[roger64]

The OP is set on e-ink. The OP is set on Koreader. Are you aware that he is far for being alone thinking this way on the Kindle forum? Jailbreak creation and distribution has been a hallmark of MobileRead for some years. Please do read these many threads.

Suddenly, because Amazon tightens the bolts for 5.6.5. (or the screws, probably the screws if I judge by myself), this choice should be "foolish"?

To show further that my choice was "foolish", I have been told authoritatively that Koreader was not as featureful as Kindle or Kobo. (e.g. highlights, notes).

It's true for notes because this feature has not yet been implemented but it's clearly false for highlights where Koreader has a better solution.

But when I point to hyphenation, which was lacking for Kindle till 2015 and has been only partially implemented (kfx only), while it's automatic for Koreader, then I'm told that few people care really about typography. Really?

When you criticize wrongly about one supposed defect in your neighbour's and you dismiss the one which is in your own eye, is it wise or foolish?

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by roger64

The OP is set on e-ink. The OP is set on Koreader. Are you aware that he is far for being alone thinking this way on the Kindle forum? Jailbreak creation and distribution has been a hallmark of MobileRead for some years. Please do read these many threads.

Suddenly, because Amazon tightens the bolts for 5.6.5. (or the screws, probably the screws if I judge by myself), this choice should be "foolish"?

To show further that my choice was "foolish", I have been told authoritatively that Koreader was not as featureful as Kindle or Kobo. (e.g. highlights, notes).

It's true for notes because this feature has not yet been implemented but it's clearly false for highlights where Koreader has a better solution.

But when I point to hyphenation, which was lacking for Kindle till 2015 and has been only partially implemented (kfx only), while it's automatic for Koreader, then I'm told that few people care really about typography. Really?

When you criticize wrongly about one supposed defect in your neighbour's and you dismiss the one which is in your own eye, is it wise or foolish?

What defect? Just because a device won't do something does not make it a defect.
And who has wrongly criticized you?
My eyes do have some defects which is why I wear glasses.
Here is the thing, if you want a device to do something then it is best to buy a device that will do it without someone having to rework it. Oh and I had never noticed the lack of hyphenation on a kindle. I did notice some weird hyphenation on the kobo.

I mean I wouldn't buy a toaster to make coffee or a coffee maker for eggs.
Note: I do think there is a small appliance that will do all three.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by roger64

The OP is set on e-ink. The OP is set on Koreader.

The OP has said no such thing.

Are you aware that he is far for being alone thinking this way on the Kindle forum? Jailbreak creation and distribution has been a hallmark of MobileRead for some years. Please do read these many threads.

It's certainly popular with a very small subset of MobileRead users (which in turn are a small subset of eBook users/readers)

Suddenly, because Amazon tightens the bolts for 5.6.5. (or the screws, probably the screws if I judge by myself), this choice should be "foolish"?

Not foolish necessarily. I wouldn't trust in an unauthorized hack to always be available however and Amazon has, from the beginning, done things to break various hacks and jailbreaks so I certainly wouldn't trust that their devices would be the best choice if altering them is necessary to be happy with said device.

It's true for notes because this feature has not yet been implemented but it's clearly false for highlights where Koreader has a better solution.

Better for you personally or "better" period.

But when I point to hyphenation, which was lacking for Kindle till 2015 and has been only partially implemented (kfx only), while it's automatic for Koreader, then I'm told that few people care really about typography. Really?

IMO most people (general users who don't generally hang out on forums like this, we're generally pickier here) really don't care. They're happy to use any device in it's stock form with whatever options/adjustments it happens to offer. Heck from talking to many people and participating in hundreds of discussions over the years most don't seem to even care much about typos/ocr errors in their books or if their books have been properly edited for decent grammar.

[roger64]

Hyphenation effect can vary according to languages. Some (German for example) use frequently longer words like others (English for example) and the visual defects the lack of hyphenation entail on a justified page display can be seen as clearly as cracks in the wall. It's also true in French.

I can ensure you that hyphenation is a standard feature applied in the printed world for some time already.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by roger64

I can ensure you that it's a standard feature applied in the printed world for some time already.

No really???

That doesn't mean everyone cares about it or is bothered by its lack. About the only place you see complaints about it one way or another are on forums like this.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

The OP has said no such thing.



It's certainly popular with a very small subset of MobileRead users (which in turn are a small subset of eBook users/readers)


Not foolish necessarily. I wouldn't trust in an unauthorized hack to always be available however and Amazon has, from the beginning, done things to break various hacks and jailbreaks so I certainly wouldn't trust that their devices would be the best choice if altering them is necessary to be happy with said device.


Better for you personally or "better" period.


IMO most people (general users who don't generally hang out on forums like this, we're generally pickier here) really don't care. They're happy to use any device in it's stock form with whatever options/adjustments it happens to offer. Heck from talking to many people and participating in hundreds of discussions over the years most don't seem to even care much about typos/ocr errors in their books or if their books have been properly edited for decent grammar.

I am one of the few that expects sentences to make sense but as to "proper" grammar, what region is the author from. Don't even get me started on the "uppity ones" that say 50 shades is not proper grammar because the sentences are simple.
I guess the absolute dumbest thing I ever heard was "I don't notice any errors so my readers won't notice mine.
Let's just say when your "reader" is counting the errors, you have lost them.

[roger64]

Originally Posted by roger64

I can ensure you that hyphenation is a standard feature applied in the printed world for some time already.

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

No really???

That doesn't mean everyone cares about it or is bothered by its lack. About the only place you see complaints about it one way or another are on forums like this.

Well, for your enjoyment, please find in the joint attachment a copy of the page 100 of "Les Liaisons dangereuses ..." published by Durand neveu in Amsterdam and Paris in 1782. This document can be downloaded at the "Bibliothèque Nationale de France". You can see that hyphenation was already applied (three times on this page).

é-crivez
indul-gence
ou-blier

It would probably be possible to find an earlier example. But I think this one will be enough.
Congratulations to Amazon for catching the trend...

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by roger64

You know perfectly well what I mean about the choice of your adjectives.

If you have a problem with me calling your decision foolish, report my post and ask for moderator oversight.

I asked you when? You reply me: never, don't buy a Paperwhite. If you are coherent, you should ask MobileRead to delete this controversial Kindle Koreader forum, which says that Koreader is "native" to Kindle as it clearly entice future users to perform "unwise" actions of this kind.

Perhaps you are misunderstanding what the word "Native" means here.
In any event, there is no good reason to ban KOReader from MobileRead, it is a perfectly useful piece of software.

I just think you should know why you want to use it, as well as whether you can use it.
Some people feel strongly enough about it that they are willing to use the serial port jailbreak if necessary. I have no problem with that.

I bought the Kindle because it has been reported to have an excellent hardware. I did not care about its software because I did hope (see above) that I could use a good alternative. BTW I see that you wisely dropped your "featureful" argument... For the time being, as my Kobo Glo is working well, I do not need the Paperwhite 3. I did test it however in the very first days and it's not difficult at all to convert some books. Just an unpleasant and for me useless chore. Should my Glo fail, I would probably use the Kindle this way, until I get a new replacement.

My only grief with Kindle is not price nor conversion, it is that it's still locked for this particular 5.6.5. firmware version. It's a jail. It's mine and it's not mine. Do you understand?

I understand that you bought a device that you had no use for whatsoever (you didn't intend to enhance it with the jailbreak, you intended to make it usable -- for you -- with the jailbreak).
Doing so is a gamble. Doing so is not a reason I can recommend for buying a Kindle.

As far as I know, the OP has no such objection to the "unpleasant and useless chore" of converting to AZW3 -- in fact, the OP hasn't stated an opinion.


As for dropping my "featureful" argument, no I didn't, I simply think it is an irrelevant point, as opposed to one integral to my argument.

I think the default firmware is superior to KOReader.
The numbers say most people agree with me.

It may float your boat -- it sure doesn't float mine.
But if you decide you need it (it is a hard requirement, not a nice-to-have), don't buy a device that may or may not be able to use it.

Originally Posted by roger64

The OP is set on e-ink. The OP is set on Koreader.

You are the one who brought up KOReader, and I want to see references to where you think the OP mentioned it.

Are you aware that he is far for being alone thinking this way on the Kindle forum? Jailbreak creation and distribution has been a hallmark of MobileRead for some years. Please do read these many threads.

Suddenly, because Amazon tightens the bolts for 5.6.5. (or the screws, probably the screws if I judge by myself), this choice should be "foolish"?

We jailbreak because it makes the devices we like, even better.

To show further that my choice was "foolish", I have been told authoritatively that Koreader was not as featureful as Kindle or Kobo. (e.g. highlights, notes).

It's true for notes because this feature has not yet been implemented but it's clearly false for highlights where Koreader has a better solution.

Debatable.

But when I point to hyphenation, which was lacking for Kindle till 2015 and has been only partially implemented (kfx only), while it's automatic for Koreader, then I'm told that few people care really about typography. Really?

When you criticize wrongly about one supposed defect in your neighbour's and you dismiss the one which is in your own eye, is it wise or foolish?

Actually, I like to go by the majority.

The majority does not care and never will care about typography in any way, shape or form.
You cannot argue with that, no matter how distasteful peoples' lack of interest may be -- it is simply true, the way it is true that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, the earth is a sphere, and 2 + 2 = 4

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by roger64

Hyphenation effect can vary according to languages. Some (German for example) use frequently longer words like others (English for example) and the visual defects the lack of hyphenation entail on a justified page display can be seen as clearly as cracks in the wall. It's also true in French.

I can ensure you that hyphenation is a standard feature applied in the printed world for some time already.

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

No really???

That doesn't mean everyone cares about it or is bothered by its lack. About the only place you see complaints about it one way or another are on forums like this.

Originally Posted by roger64

Well, for your enjoyment, please find in the joint attachment a copy of the page 100 of "Les Liaisons dangereuses ..." published by Durand neveu in Amsterdam and Paris in 1782. This document can be downloaded at the "Bibliothèque Nationale de France". You can see that hyphenation was already applied (three times on this page).

é-crivez
indul-gence
ou-blier

It would probably be possible to find an earlier example. But I think this one will be enough.
Congratulations to Amazon for catching the trend...

I do not find that very enjoyable.
In fact, I don't care in the slightest.

It could be hyphenated or not hyphenated, for all I care, and to be perfectly honest if you hadn't specifically told me it was hyphenated I wouldn't notice the difference.

I have read a couple thousand books on my non-hyphenated Kindle Touch, and enjoyed it immensely.
To be honest, it was the "reading" part that really did it for me.