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Old 11-23-2013, 04:17 AM   #1
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How to manage kepub.epub in Calibre

Hi,

I need to have two versions of some files: kepub.epub and epub, because they are handled by different engine on the kobo reader.

First I thought the question was:
- is there an easy way to distinguish kepub.epub from epub in Calibre...

Then I understood that at import time, all my kepub had been renamed, and therefore, that I didn't have kepub.epub anymore

And my questions are:
- How to import the kepub.epub safely into Calibre (I guess there is a template thing to modify)? without converting them, of course.
- How can I distinguish them in Calibre?

Thank you for your help or for pointing me toward a thread on this subject.
(I read something about handling kepub in the latest features of Calibre or the driver, but don't know if it is for converting...)


Regards

François

Calibre 1.12
KoboTouchExtended (2.2.13)
Kobo utilities 1.4.3
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Old 11-23-2013, 04:39 AM   #2
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As far as calibre is concerned, the extension for a kepub is just "kepub". The "kepub.epub" extension is used on the Kobo ereaders only. When the kepub is sent to the device, the driver renames the file so the device will handle it properly.

Within calibre, a kepub is treated as any other format. If you select a book that has a kepub as one of its formats, it will be displayed in the details pain along with the other formats. In the tag browser, if you have any kepubs in the library, "Formats" will have an entry for them. Selecting this will show all books that have a kepub as one of its formats.

Getting a kepub into calibre is a little different. If it is on the device, you can select it in the device list, use the "Add books to library function. This will copy sideloaded kepubs, but not purchased kepubs. If you have them elsewhere, you need to rename the file to have the extension "kepub". Calibre can then add the file as a book and extract the metadata as needed. Having calibre add a ".kepub.epub" as a kepub would be a good idea. I'll have a look and talk to Kovid, but I can think of a reason it might not work.

The update in the latest version of calibre is to allow the KoboTouch driver to send kepubs to the device. This was needed for people who had the format in the library and didn't want to use the extended driver.

I think that is it. If I missed anything or explained something badly, ask away.
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Old 11-23-2013, 05:26 AM   #3
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fxp33 figured out that Keyser Söze was the Kevin Spacey character in less than 20 minutes.fxp33 figured out that Keyser Söze was the Kevin Spacey character in less than 20 minutes.fxp33 figured out that Keyser Söze was the Kevin Spacey character in less than 20 minutes.fxp33 figured out that Keyser Söze was the Kevin Spacey character in less than 20 minutes.fxp33 figured out that Keyser Söze was the Kevin Spacey character in less than 20 minutes.fxp33 figured out that Keyser Söze was the Kevin Spacey character in less than 20 minutes.fxp33 figured out that Keyser Söze was the Kevin Spacey character in less than 20 minutes.fxp33 figured out that Keyser Söze was the Kevin Spacey character in less than 20 minutes.fxp33 figured out that Keyser Söze was the Kevin Spacey character in less than 20 minutes.fxp33 figured out that Keyser Söze was the Kevin Spacey character in less than 20 minutes.fxp33 figured out that Keyser Söze was the Kevin Spacey character in less than 20 minutes.
 
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Hi Davidfor,

You know you are a savior!
Twice in a week!

Great

Many thanks

François
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Old 01-10-2020, 07:20 PM   #4
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I just downloaded a bunch of kepubs from https://standardebooks.org/

The Standard Ebooks guide says that I should copy these files straight on the Kobo, without using Calibre (they have a '.kepub.epub' extension).

However I do need to put these books on Calibre first - for practical reasons (library management/backup, etc.).
So I did try to add these ebooks to Calibre library, but the software detects them as simple epubs.

Is there a way to make Calibre read these files as kepubs in a native way, in order to avoid a new and unneeded conversion when I send them to the Kobo device?
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Old 01-10-2020, 07:52 PM   #5
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Standard eBooks has it all wrong.

epub — All devices and apps except Amazon Kindle and Kobo.
azw3 — Amazon Kindle devices and apps. Also download the Kindle cover thumbnail to see the cover in your Kindle’s library.
kepub — Kobo devices and apps.
epub3 — Advanced format not yet fully compatible with most ereaders.

These are the list of formats and they got some of it very wrong. ePub is compatible with Kobo. And there is no need for ePub 3 for any of these eBooks. And if you have to download the cover thumbnail separately, then they'd done something wrong with the KF8 version.
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Old 01-10-2020, 08:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jxall View Post
I just downloaded a bunch of kepubs from https://standardebooks.org/

The Standard Ebooks guide says that I should copy these files straight on the Kobo, without using Calibre (they have a '.kepub.epub' extension).

However I do need to put these books on Calibre first - for practical reasons (library management/backup, etc.).
So I did try to add these ebooks to Calibre library, but the software detects them as simple epubs.

Is there a way to make Calibre read these files as kepubs in a native way, in order to avoid a new and unneeded conversion when I send them to the Kobo device?
First you want to download the KePub Input plugin. Then you want to customize the KoboTouch (or the KoboTouchExtnded driver if that is installed). Make sure KePub is checked. Restart Calibre and then add the KePub eBooks to your library. You can add them to your Kobo as you would an ePub.
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Old 01-10-2020, 08:11 PM   #7
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They don't say that epub is not compatible with Kobo, they only suggest to prefer their pre-formatted kepubs over the epubs on Kobo devices. As a matter of fact they also provide instructions on how to send epubs to Kobo via Calibre+KTE...
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Old 01-10-2020, 08:26 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by jxall View Post
They don't say that epub is not compatible with Kobo, they only suggest to prefer their pre-formatted kepubs over the epubs on Kobo devices. As a matter of fact they also provide instructions on how to send epubs to Kobo via Calibre+KTE...
Yes they do. They say for ePub, "except Amazon Kindle and Kobo". That to me says ePub is not compatible. Another issue is that they say that ePub3 is an advanced format. For these public domain eBooks, ePub3 is no more advanced then ePub2. And they say that KePub is only for Kobo and Kobo apps. So they are misleading people to say that Kobo are only compatible with KePub.

They need to get rid of ePub3 and fix it so they are no longer saying that KePub is the only format that will work on a Kobo.
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Old 01-10-2020, 08:27 PM   #9
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First you want to download the KePub Input plugin. Then you want to customize the KoboTouch (or the KoboTouchExtnded driver if that is installed). Make sure KePub is checked. Restart Calibre and then add the KePub eBooks to your library. You can add them to your Kobo as you would an ePub.
I had already installed both KePub Input and KTE and customized the latter accordingly.
However when I drag and drop any .kepub.epub file on Calibre, this ebook is listed as an EPUB in the right column of Calibre (below the book cover).

All the other books from Calibre library (all epubs converted to kepub format via KTE) have both the EPUB and KEPUB files listed.

So Calibre can tell the difference between the two formats and properly detect them as such. It just fails to detect the kepubs dragged and dropped from the outside (i.e. the kepub files unrelated to KTE conversions).
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Old 01-10-2020, 08:59 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by jxall View Post
I had already installed both KePub Input and KTE and customized the latter accordingly.
However when I drag and drop any .kepub.epub file on Calibre, this ebook is listed as an EPUB in the right column of Calibre (below the book cover).

All the other books from Calibre library (all epubs converted to kepub format via KTE) have both the EPUB and KEPUB files listed.

So Calibre can tell the difference between the two formats and properly detect them as such. It just fails to detect the kepubs dragged and dropped from the outside (i.e. the kepub files unrelated to KTE conversions).
You need to rename the KePub to just .kepub before you load it into your Calibre library.
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Old 01-10-2020, 11:55 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jxall View Post
Is there a way to make Calibre read these files as kepubs in a native way, in order to avoid a new and unneeded conversion when I send them to the Kobo device?
The last time I converted a batch of epubs using kepubify, I renamed the files from .kepub.epub to .kepub and then dropped them on the epubs' entries in calibre. This is a manual process and worked for testing but it's not something I would want to do on a large scale.
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Old 01-11-2020, 05:30 AM   #12
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So there's no specific feature - either in KoboTouchExtended or Kepubify - to automatically fix this issue or batch-rename files?

And also, is there a specific reason why Kepubs are not natively supported by Calibre after all these years of development?
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Old 01-11-2020, 08:28 AM   #13
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So there's no specific feature - either in KoboTouchExtended or Kepubify - to automatically fix this issue or batch-rename files?
Not at the moment. KoboTouchExtended generates kepubs when sending books to the device. kepubify is really about doing the same thing. But the author has state he will add an option to generate the name as .kepub.
Quote:
And also, is there a specific reason why Kepubs are not natively supported by Calibre after all these years of development?
Why would it? Kepubs are only used by Kobo ereaders. There is very little reason to keep a copy of them in the library. If you do get one from elsewhere with the extension as .kepub.epub, then it can safely be treated as an epub for just about everything.

And calibre is designed to be extensible using plugins. All the necessary plugins to support kepubs for those who want to store them exist. Just install them. The only issue is you need to drop the .epub from the name.
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Old 01-11-2020, 09:15 AM   #14
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OK, I just conducted some tests.
  1. I downloaded the .epub and the .kepub.epub editions of David Copperfield from Standard Book website. I'll call these files E and KE.
  2. I copied-pasted E and KE to the Kobo main folder.
  3. I duplicated the original E file, added it to Calibre library, and converted it to .kepub.epub via KoboTouchExtended and sent it to Kobo. I'll call this file E>KE.
  4. I duplicated the original KE file and added it to Calibre. Calibre detected it as an epub, so I had to convert it to .kepub.epub via KoboTouchExtended and send it to the device. I'll call this file KE>(E)>KE.
  5. I duplicated the original KE file, shortened its name to .kepub, added it to Calibre library and sent it to Kobo (no KoboTouchExtended conversion took place). I'll call this file K.

[Please note that in KoboTouchExtended driver I ticked "Cleanup ePub markup" and "Hyphenate Files". I have always kept those configurations like that because the developer himself prefers them to be ticked.]

Then I opened all these files on my Kobo one after another. I didn't change font and any other settings - and started to take pictures to them. Then I used the pictures to visually compare the formatting of the same bunch of pages.

Here are the comparative results:
  • The text from E - as it happens with any epub file - looks a lot bigger than the text from kepub files, using the same nominal font size.
  • KE and K are identical.
  • E>KE and KE>(E)>KE are identical between themselves, but they have a noticeably different formatting from KE and K, taking up more lines per page.

So, Standard Books kepubs are indeed optimized and they do require the manual editing .kepub.epub > .kepub) in order to work in a Calibre library. I guess I'll really a tool to do that in big scale.

Many thanks @JSWolf and @DNSB for the help.


Quote:
Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
Not at the moment. KoboTouchExtended generates kepubs when sending books to the device. kepubify is really about doing the same thing. But the author has state he will add an option to generate the name as .kepub.


Why would it? Kepubs are only used by Kobo ereaders. There is very little reason to keep a copy of them in the library. If you do get one from elsewhere with the extension as .kepub.epub, then it can safely be treated as an epub for just about everything.

And calibre is designed to be extensible using plugins. All the necessary plugins to support kepubs for those who want to store them exist. Just install them. The only issue is you need to drop the .epub from the name.
Thanks for pointing out about the upcoming feature in Kepubify.

Even if I do understand the general sense of your answer, kepubs have been around for a while. AZW3 are Amazon-specific files just like KEPUBS are Kobo-specific files, so - considering that both formats have been around for many years now - why do AZW3 files have native support and KEPUBs don't?

Kobo is the 2nd most popular producer after all. And as I have shown, it is very useful for backup-restore / practical reasons to have Standard Books' native kepubs in Calibre library instead of epubs in my library.

Couldn't you try to normalize this situation through your plugins? (Allow Calibre to recognize .kepub.epub files just like .kepub files?
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Old 01-11-2020, 09:31 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jxall View Post
OK, I just conducted some tests.
  1. I downloaded the .epub and the .kepub.epub editions of David Copperfield from Standard Book website. I'll call these files E and KE.
  2. I copied-pasted E and KE to the Kobo main folder.
  3. I duplicated the original E file, added it to Calibre library, and converted it to .kepub.epub via KoboTouchExtended and sent it to Kobo. I'll call this file E>KE.
  4. I duplicated the original KE file and added it to Calibre. Calibre detected it as an epub, so I had to convert it to .kepub.epub via KoboTouchExtended and send it to the device. I'll call this file KE>(E)>KE.
  5. I duplicated the original KE file, shortened its name to .kepub, added it to Calibre library and sent it to Kobo (no KoboTouchExtended conversion took place). I'll call this file K.

[Please note that in KoboTouchExtended driver I ticked "Cleanup ePub markup" and "Hyphenate Files". I have always kept those configurations like that because the developer himself prefers them to be ticked.]

Then I opened all these files on my Kobo one after another. I didn't change font and any other settings - and started to take pictures to them. Then I used the pictures to visually compare the formatting of the same bunch of pages.

Here are the comparative results:
  • The text from E - as it happens with any epub file - looks a lot bigger than the text from kepub files, using the same nominal font size.
  • KE and K are identical.
  • E>KE and KE>(E)>KE are identical between themselves, but they have a noticeably different formatting from KE and K, taking up more lines per page.

So, Standard Books kepubs are indeed optimized and they do require the manual editing .kepub.epub > .kepub) in order to work in a Calibre library. I guess I'll really a tool to do that in big scale.

Many thanks @JSWolf and @DNSB for the help.




Thanks for pointing out about the upcoming feature in Kepubify.

Even if I do understand the general sense of your answer, kepubs have been around for a while. AZW3 are Amazon-specific files just like KEPUBS are Kobo-specific files, so - considering that both formats have been around for many years now - why do AZW3 files have native support and KEPUBs don't?

Kobo is the 2nd most popular producer after all. And as I have shown, it is very useful for backup-restore / practical reasons to have Standard Books' native kepubs in Calibre library instead of epubs in my library.

Couldn't you try to normalize this situation through your plugins? (Allow Calibre to recognize .kepub.epub files just like .kepub files?
One reason there is no native KePub support is that most KePub are created on-the-fly when you send ePub to your Kobo using the KoboTouchExtended driver. The KePub is not kept in Calibre. Just the ePub.

As for the font size, there are some patches to allow you to have ePub and KePub font settings to be the same. So you do not have to go from one to the other and have different font sizes. I have applied the patches and I no longer have different font sizes for ePub and KePub. Here is the link to the patch thread for the 4.19.x firmware.

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=325572
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