2 CODES: variant forms of spelling

chaot · 01-30-2017, 01:04 PM

These 2 codes for linking a content entry to the chapter - they work both (separately of course). Question: There are any differences (in the outcome) or not?

Code:

  <h4 id="uAIKIQFfF5UME83PA4zUdR8"><a href="Inhalt.html#qwerty">II. Bar</a></h4>

  <h4><a href="Inhalt.html#qwerty" id="uAIKIQFfF5UME83PA4zUdR8">II. Bar</a></h4>

Turtle91 · 01-31-2017, 08:40 AM

Effectively they will do the same thing. However, the link will point to the element with the ID. <h4 id=...> would link to the <h4> tag, while <a id=...> points to the actual letters themselves. If you have some bizarre css styling it could throw off your result. Such as:

CSS
h4 {margin-top:15em}
or
a {margin-left:75%}

could have the link point to the incorrect page on smaller screens, or the wrong point on the page.

DaleDe · 01-31-2017, 03:54 PM

If these were generated by an automatic program then the semantics is causing you to see different outcomes that go to essentially the same place. The h4 id is a normal target for forward links in TOC's while the id generated inside the href statement was probably generated to allow for a return link to allow you to return after the jump.

Dale

JSWolf · 01-31-2017, 04:15 PM

Are you still insisting on making headers into links? It's a waste of code and given that you have amount of space in each ePub XML, you really don't want to have this code that can be done with link(s) in the NCX ToC.

DaleDe · 01-31-2017, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Are you still insisting on making headers into links? It's a waste of code and given that you have amount of space in each ePub XML, you really don't want to have this code that can be done with link(s) in the NCX ToC.

Programs like Atlantis and Sigil and many others use headers to generate the NCX TOC automatically. But since they usually use the text in the headers the headers entries are important.

Dale

JSWolf · 01-31-2017, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

Programs like Atlantis and Sigil and many others use headers to generate the NCX TOC automatically. But since they usually use the text in the headers the headers entries are important.

Dale

That's nothing to do with what I am trying to say. I'm trying to say to NOT use the headers as links to link back to the internal ToC. That's just looks shabby and takes up space that could maybe be needed to keep within the mobile ePub specs.

DaleDe · 02-01-2017, 01:14 AM

I understand you don't like inline TOC which is your right but not everyone agrees. In this case I wasn't even talking about inline TOC. The link back I was referring to was a footnote. A perfectly acceptable way to to any sort of paper.

Dale

chaot · 02-02-2017, 05:51 AM

Allow me to start the question with clearer formulation and code again.

To @JSWolf

Spoiler:

Now we speak about an general coding question!

Click image for larger version

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Files Browser Title A & Title B are chapters with headers in <h2> tags. Each chapter includes one second title Aa and one subtitle SubtitleAa (respective Bb & SubtitleBb) in <h2> resp. <h3> tags.

Chapter Title A would look like:

Code:

<body>
  <h2 id="auto1Gen1Code1">Title A</h2> 

  <p>Introducing text</p>

  <h2 id="auto2Gen2Code2">Aa</h2>

  <p>Some text</p>

  <h3 id="auto3Gen3Code3">SubtitleAa</h3>

  <p>More text</p>

  <h2 id="auto4Gen4Code4">End</h2>  

  <p>Closing phrase</p>

<body>

Question: In ereader: How I jump back from header Aa or SubtitleAa to
a) Content or
b) to the respective entry there?
(We don't speak about the auto-generated ToC.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turtle91

Spoiler:

To allow for all possibilities: <hx id=...> instead of <a id=...> !

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

... while the id generated inside the href statement was probably generated to allow for a return link to allow you to return after the jump.

Exactly!

I think now I have expressed myself clearly.

JSWolf · 02-02-2017, 05:56 AM

What I think would work would be to have the main header to the left and the sub-headers for that section to be indented. Then a blank line for the next section and so on.

Turtle91 · 02-02-2017, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaot

Chapter Title A would look like:

Code:

<body>
  <h2 id="auto1Gen1Code1">Title A</h2> 

  <p>Introducing text</p>

  <h2 id="auto2Gen2Code2">Aa</h2>

  <p>Some text</p>

  <h3 id="auto3Gen3Code3">SubtitleAa</h3>

  <p>More text</p>

  <h2 id="auto4Gen4Code4">End</h2>  

  <p>Closing phrase</p>

<body>

Question: In ereader: How I jump back from header Aa or SubtitleAa to
a) Content or
b) to the respective entry there?
(We don't speak about the auto-generated ToC.)

Instead of telling you what your styling should look like, the answer to your question is to use an <a> with an href back to your ToC page:

a) To take you back to the top of your Contents page
<h2 id="auto1Gen1Code1"><a href="../Text/contents.xhtml">Title A</a>

b) To take you back to the respective entry ON the Contents page would require each of the entries on the contents page to have a specific id
<h2 id="auto2Gen2Code2"><a href="../Text/contents.xhtml#IDforAa">Aa</a></h2>

and

<h3 id="auto3Gen3Code3"><a href="../Text/contents.xhtml#IDforSubtitleAa">SubtitleAa</a></h3>

where your TOC page has something like this:

Code:

<ul>
<li id="IDforTitleA"><a href="../Text/somepage.xhtml">TitleA</li>
<li id="IDforAa"><a href="../Text/somepage.xhtml#auto2Gen2Code2">Aa</li>
<li id="IDforSubtitleAa"><a href="../Text/somepage.xhtml#auto3Gen3Code3">SubtitleAa</li>
</ul>

Adding the "#" with a specific ID at the end of your href takes you to that specific point on a page. If you do not have the "#" then it just takes you to the top of that page. eg. if your chapter header is the top of the page you do not need the "#".

You can have the id for each item on your contents page either in the <li> as shown in the example above, or in the <a> tag itself (eg <li><a href="../Text/somepage.xhtml" id="IDforTitleA">TitleA</li>)...the result is effectively the same unless you have some really crazy styling as I mentioned in my post above.

Cheers!

JSWolf · 02-02-2017, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turtle91

Instead of telling you what your styling should look like, the answer to your question is to use an <a> with an href back to your ToC page:

a) To take you back to the top of your Contents page
<h2 id="auto1Gen1Code1"><a href="../Text/contents.xhtml">Title A</a>

NO! Do not do that at all. It's going to look awful and it will take up space in the flow that you may want for other things. Plus, it's not needed. The way to make eBooks is to keep them as simple as possible. Making headers into links to go back to the ToC is just so very wrong on so many levels.

ePub has an external ToC that's very easily accessible. You can put links to the internal ToC in there. Also, Kindles don't need this either as they have a similar way to access the ToC. So all this does is look bad, be bad, and is poor coding.

Turtle91 · 02-02-2017, 08:23 AM

Regardless of JSWolf's opinion about not liking inline ToC...

- It does not look awful...you can style your headers and links however you want to using the appropriate CSS.

- It does not take up ANY space in the flow...its a link...they are non-space taking...

- It is needed if the user wants to have an inline ToC and have their headers take them back to that ToC....which was the OPs question.

- ePubs and some devices/apps do have an external ToC capability. But that was not the OPs question, either.

In conlusion: It doesn't have to look bad....it certainly isn't bad (it's code)...and it's not poor coding. It is how you accomplish what you asked for - regardless of some people's dislike for inline ToC.

BTW, I don't care for inline ToC either, but that makes no difference to the OP. Furthermore, I do believe Amazon/Kindle requires an inline ToC....

Cheers,

jhowell · 02-02-2017, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turtle91

Furthermore, I do believe Amazon/Kindle requires an inline ToC....

From the Amazon Kindle Publishing Guidelines:

Quote:

5 Navigation Guidelines

Amazon strongly recommends the use of an HTML table of contents (TOC) for all books that would benefit from this navigation feature.
...
Amazon requires that all Kindle books include a logical TOC.

So the in-line TOC is recommended, but the logical (NCX) TOC is required.

JSWolf · 02-02-2017, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turtle91

Regardless of JSWolf's opinion about not liking inline ToC...

- It does not take up ANY space in the flow...its a link...they are non-space taking...

Any code takes up space. The space is not just allocated for text. It's the size of the entire flow including ALL of the coding.

Turtle91 · 02-03-2017, 12:22 PM

So, your only true complaint is that the links make the file size .01 kb larger...noted.

Thanks for the correction jhowell!

01-30-2017, 01:04 PM	#1
chaot Head of lunatic asylum Posts: 349 Karma: 77620 Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: UTC +1 Device: Tolino Vision 3HD	2 CODES: variant forms of spelling These 2 codes for linking a content entry to the chapter - they work both (separately of course). Question: There are any differences (in the outcome) or not? Code: <h4 id="uAIKIQFfF5UME83PA4zUdR8"><a href="Inhalt.html#qwerty">II. Bar</a></h4> <h4><a href="Inhalt.html#qwerty" id="uAIKIQFfF5UME83PA4zUdR8">II. Bar</a></h4> Last edited by chaot; 01-30-2017 at 02:34 PM.

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01-31-2017, 08:40 AM	#2
Turtle91 A Hairy Wizard Posts: 3,093 Karma: 18727053 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Charleston, SC today Device: iPhone 11/X/6/iPad 1,2,Air & Air Pro/Surface Pro/Kindle PW & Fire	Effectively they will do the same thing. However, the link will point to the element with the ID. <h4 id=...> would link to the <h4> tag, while <a id=...> points to the actual letters themselves. If you have some bizarre css styling it could throw off your result. Such as: CSS h4 {margin-top:15em} or a {margin-left:75%} could have the link point to the incorrect page on smaller screens, or the wrong point on the page.

01-31-2017, 03:54 PM	#3
DaleDe Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,470 Karma: 13095790 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Grass Valley, CA Device: EB 1150, EZ Reader, Literati, iPad 2 & Air 2, iPhone 7	If these were generated by an automatic program then the semantics is causing you to see different outcomes that go to essentially the same place. The h4 id is a normal target for forward links in TOC's while the id generated inside the href statement was probably generated to allow for a return link to allow you to return after the jump. Dale

01-31-2017, 04:15 PM	#4
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 73,877 Karma: 128597114 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	Are you still insisting on making headers into links? It's a waste of code and given that you have amount of space in each ePub XML, you really don't want to have this code that can be done with link(s) in the NCX ToC.

02-01-2017, 01:14 AM	#7
DaleDe Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,470 Karma: 13095790 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Grass Valley, CA Device: EB 1150, EZ Reader, Literati, iPad 2 & Air 2, iPhone 7	I understand you don't like inline TOC which is your right but not everyone agrees. In this case I wasn't even talking about inline TOC. The link back I was referring to was a footnote. A perfectly acceptable way to to any sort of paper. Dale

02-02-2017, 05:56 AM	#9
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 73,877 Karma: 128597114 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	What I think would work would be to have the main header to the left and the sub-headers for that section to be indented. Then a blank line for the next section and so on.

02-02-2017, 08:23 AM	#12
Turtle91 A Hairy Wizard Posts: 3,093 Karma: 18727053 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Charleston, SC today Device: iPhone 11/X/6/iPad 1,2,Air & Air Pro/Surface Pro/Kindle PW & Fire	Regardless of JSWolf's *opinion* about not liking inline ToC... - It does not look awful...you can style your headers and links however you want to using the appropriate CSS. - It does not take up ANY space in the flow...its a link...they are non-space taking... - It is needed if the user wants to have an inline ToC and have their headers take them back to that ToC....which was the OPs question. - ePubs and some devices/apps do have an external ToC capability. But that was not the OPs question, either. In conlusion: It doesn't have to look bad....it certainly isn't bad (it's code)...and it's not poor coding. It is how you accomplish what you asked for - regardless of some people's dislike for inline ToC. BTW, I don't care for inline ToC either, but that makes no difference to the OP. Furthermore, I do believe Amazon/Kindle *requires* an inline ToC.... Cheers,

02-03-2017, 12:22 PM	#15
Turtle91 A Hairy Wizard Posts: 3,093 Karma: 18727053 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Charleston, SC today Device: iPhone 11/X/6/iPad 1,2,Air & Air Pro/Surface Pro/Kindle PW & Fire	So, your only true complaint is that the links make the file size .01 kb larger...noted. Thanks for the correction jhowell!

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