11-11-2019, 04:42 PM | #31 |
eReader Wrangler
Posts: 7,468
Karma: 48453105
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Boise, ID
Device: PB HD3, GL3, Tolino Vision 4, Voyage, Clara HD
|
Or, on the other hand, there's no real good reason to convert. People in the United States, for example, understand miles and Fahrenheit. Who cares if it matches the rest of the world? If the standard unit of measure was an average jack rabbit hop, times 221.7, and everyone was used to that, why should they change to some other standard? What's wrong with using what we're accustomed to? Why should we change for the sake of changing?
|
11-11-2019, 04:51 PM | #32 |
eReader Wrangler
Posts: 7,468
Karma: 48453105
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Boise, ID
Device: PB HD3, GL3, Tolino Vision 4, Voyage, Clara HD
|
The whole point of this thread is that the OP wants to develop a page numbering system that will remain consistent between a specific edition of a paper book and its eBook counterpart. I realize this thread has been hijacked (not that I haven't been part of that) for yet another debate on page numbering. But, personally, I think the original aim here would be great for students who are working with a specific edition of a textbook. (Personally I would like this for novels also — but I think that's beside the point.)
|
Advert | |
|
11-11-2019, 04:57 PM | #33 | |||
Wizard
Posts: 2,297
Karma: 12126329
Join Date: Jul 2012
Device: Kobo Forma, Nook
|
Quote:
Good that you were testing that. I never really messed with much beyond your usual Roman Numerals + basic numbers. Quote:
"and still show change for each ebook page turn." This made me think you were trying to emulate some sort of "Screens", but hardcoding even more of them. So you would arbitrarily split every page into .1, .2, .3, to try to get closer to a "screen per page". Still would recommend against that because it would interfere with blind readers who want to skip to next pages. Quote:
I discussed this all in the linked threads, and came up with the concept of "Format-Specific" and "Format-Neutral". A "Format-Specific" example would be: Page Number (like in a physical book). Only fits with that specific page/font size, those specific margins, [...]. A "Format-Neutral" example would be: Paragraph Count. It doesn't matter if it's physical, Large Print, HTML, Ebook, the amount of paragraphs should be the same across formats. (Also think laws: "see Section 8, paragraph 3".) Every reference format is going to have pros/cons. Here's what I wrote on Word Counts:
Elsewhere in the thread, I also discussed a few more complicated edge cases with Word Counts. Here's some newer examples:
If anything, I would say Paragraph Count is more neutral/steady across mediums. It's pretty well-proven in cases like laws ("see Section 8, paragraph 3, clause a"). And laws have to be written in a way and published in many different formats, they can't rely on something too specific/variable. Last edited by Tex2002ans; 11-11-2019 at 05:46 PM. |
|||
11-11-2019, 05:02 PM | #34 | |
Wizard
Posts: 2,841
Karma: 22003124
Join Date: Aug 2014
Device: Kobo Forma, Kobo Sage, Kobo Libra 2
|
Quote:
The aim on the thread was to create a system which is consistent, but it's doing that by establishing a false base as the setting (a physical book of a chosen edition), and inflicting the pages there to ebooks. Which of course falls apart if there's a different edition of the book in physical form say as a large print edition. Meanwhile 500 words into a 'regular print', ebook, and large print of the same book will get you to the same spot regardless of typography, or page size. |
|
11-11-2019, 05:05 PM | #35 | |
Wizard
Posts: 2,297
Karma: 12126329
Join Date: Jul 2012
Device: Kobo Forma, Nook
|
Quote:
For your typical Novel, a raw word count would probably be "okay", but anything more complicated than that (Non-Fiction, Math, Javascript-enabled books)... And the larger the books, the more different word count algorithms diverge. |
|
Advert | |
|
11-11-2019, 05:52 PM | #36 | |
Wizard
Posts: 2,841
Karma: 22003124
Join Date: Aug 2014
Device: Kobo Forma, Kobo Sage, Kobo Libra 2
|
Quote:
|
|
11-11-2019, 06:02 PM | #37 |
Gentleman and scholar
Posts: 11,041
Karma: 108312789
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Space City, Texas
Device: Clara HD; Nook ST w/Glowlight, (2015) Glowlight Plus, Paperwhite 3
|
|
11-11-2019, 06:03 PM | #38 | |
Diligent dilettante
Posts: 3,417
Karma: 48736498
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: in my mind
Device: Kobo Sage; Kobo Libra H2O
|
Quote:
Now I'm curious: This thread has been about "real" page numbers, arbitrarily assigned from a specific edition of a paper copy of a book. How many paper books are Javascript-enabled? |
|
11-11-2019, 06:07 PM | #39 | |
Wizard
Posts: 2,297
Karma: 12126329
Join Date: Jul 2012
Device: Kobo Forma, Nook
|
Quote:
So let's say you wanted a Word Count as a reference to a specific location in a book... where do Footnotes belong? You could code them at the bottom of the file: Code:
<p>This is a paragraph.[1]</p> <p>This is a second paragraph.</p> [...] <hr /> <p>[1] This is footnote 1.</p> Code:
<p>This is a paragraph.[1]</p> <aside><p>[1] This is footnote 1.</p></aside> <p>This is a second paragraph.</p> Code:
<p>This is a paragraph.[1]</p> <p>This is a second paragraph.</p> * * * (Completely separate file) * * * <p>[1] This is endnote 1.</p> Should footnotes even count towards word count? They're arguably not a part of the main text... and may not even be displayed depending on which format you're reading in. A more "neutral" scheme (like Paragraphs) wouldn't be as wildly variable. (*Although it runs into other hard edge cases... like this footnotes issue.) Last edited by Tex2002ans; 11-11-2019 at 06:10 PM. |
|
11-11-2019, 06:22 PM | #40 |
Wizard
Posts: 2,841
Karma: 22003124
Join Date: Aug 2014
Device: Kobo Forma, Kobo Sage, Kobo Libra 2
|
Again still an easier thing to resolve than page numbers that don’t exist. It’s not like citation methods aren’t well documented with various styles as fits the disciplines of the book.
I’ll save you the trouble of finding other cases, anything which deals with something hard and finite is going to be easier than dealing with an arbitrary system being fixed into another arbitrary system to try and make a third arbitrary system in the name of accuracy. |
11-11-2019, 07:14 PM | #41 | |
Resident Curmudgeon
Posts: 74,249
Karma: 129333566
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3
|
Quote:
I really dislike 1 screen = 1 page for the full book. I don't mind for chapter page numbers. Word count used as page numbers is also a no way. The ending page number would be too high and that won't work for a lot of people. We have ADE page numbers. Why not just go with that as it works well? |
|
11-11-2019, 07:15 PM | #42 |
Resident Curmudgeon
Posts: 74,249
Karma: 129333566
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3
|
And this is why ADE page numbers work. Because they work regardless of all the issues mentioned.
|
11-11-2019, 07:23 PM | #43 |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 6,502
Karma: 84500001
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida
Device: Kindles
|
That is not true. Amazon "locations" each count 150 bytes of HTML3 data in the MOBI7 format as produced by Kindlegen. The same text with different styling will have different location numbers.
|
11-11-2019, 07:32 PM | #44 |
Resident Curmudgeon
Posts: 74,249
Karma: 129333566
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3
|
ADE page numbers are not meant to correspond to some pBook version. ADE page numbers are meant to be consistent no matter the screen size, font, font size, margins, line height, font size, etc. And they are. That's why ADE page numbers work and is the best page number system for eBooks.
|
11-11-2019, 07:41 PM | #45 |
Resident Curmudgeon
Posts: 74,249
Karma: 129333566
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3
|
Sorry, but no. Not going to work. The regular pBook and the large print pBook are not going to be in the same place 500 words in. You have different text before you get to the start of the story (in the case of a novel) and that right there throws off the count between the two versions.
|
Tags |
apnx, page number, page numbering, page numbers |
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Glo Page Numbering | dixieknits | Kobo Reader | 3 | 01-06-2013 04:43 PM |
ePub Page Numbering Using Page-map | Dark123 | Calibre | 2 | 06-16-2010 07:15 AM |
Page numbering | StanByk | Calibre | 2 | 09-07-2009 02:10 PM |
Page Numbering... | slantybard | Calibre | 3 | 08-02-2009 11:41 AM |
Page Numbering | bookstar | Sony Reader | 1 | 03-24-2009 03:21 PM |