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Old 11-01-2019, 09:19 AM   #1
ContadorPL
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Device: planning e-ink monitor
E-ink for programmer?

Hello,

is there any programmer here who works on an e-ink monitor?

Don't you mind the small screen, lack of colors and high input lag?

I would love to know which model would be the best for programming because currently my eyes hurt when working on EIZO EV2455 (which is a good monitor anyway)
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Old 11-01-2019, 01:58 PM   #2
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You might look at our wiki Display#Using_E_Ink_as_a_computer_monitor

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Old 11-02-2019, 10:22 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by ContadorPL View Post
is there any programmer here who works on an e-ink monitor? Don't you mind the small screen, lack of colors and high input lag?
Will not you miss syntax highlighting?
EDIT: I had not read you correctly: you noticed the issue and are asking how much others felt affected. You could also have added to the list, managing ghosting.

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I would love to know which model would be the best for programming
Are you supposing that E-Ink specifications vary importantly?

Last edited by mdp; 11-02-2019 at 10:24 AM.
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Old 11-02-2019, 12:50 PM   #4
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Great for reading books. Maybe for reading loads of code with only occasional annotations.
eInk varies from poor (New) to dreadful (Older) for partial page updates, only whole page updates (i.e. ONLY reading and page turning). Most applications are like 2000+ years old in document handling, i.e. SCROLL entire document, not page based. Scrolling is terrible compared to paging.
The original Kindle DXG firmware converted web pages to a paged interface, no scroll. All eink based readers I've seen lately use scrolling for web pages. It's terrible.

No model is going to very good for programming / editing. Actual novel / fiction writing is more sequential, though no WP I know offers a paged GUI, even when showing page mode they scroll!

So you need viewing and editing software that's page based, not scroll based. I don't know of any.

Anyone would get an idea of how bad eink display is for ordinary wordprocessing or programming by using Wikipedia on most ereaders.

The application used will make FAR more difference than model of eink. The technology inherently only suits reading pages at a time, no scrolling.

I started programming with punched cards, then line editors, then full screen editing in 1979. I've also written a text editor. Sadly a 2002 top of the range matt finish 1600 x 1200 LCD was better for program or novel editing than most screens today on laptops less than $1500. The Retina type screen is pointless as the screen size usually means 200% scale and shape is the dumb 16:9.

I thought an eink screen would be nice for at least novel writing, maybe programming, but no suitable page only applications exist that I know of on Windows or Linux. Android is a joke for content creation, though I take notes on it. No assurance any particular application can print, use external storage or use network shares. A file manager even as good as Windows 3.1 seems to be an optional extra.

So I'll put up with my LCD laptop and use the 7" ereader for reading! I do paste stuff from web or technical sources or programs into LibreOffice Writer, clean up styles (ensure page breaks via heading style and anchors with TOC), Save as odt and docx, then convert to epub with Calibre. Then the Kobo seems best for reading annotations back into laptop via Calibre Kobo Utilities (Using Annotations plugin and the Kindle is MUCH slower and less satisfactory context).

Last edited by FrustratedReader; 11-02-2019 at 01:02 PM.
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Old 11-02-2019, 06:26 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ContadorPL View Post
...I would love to know which model would be the best for programming because currently my eyes hurt when working on EIZO EV2455 (which is a good monitor anyway)
In case you cannot find what you have asked for and not tried the following already:

Have you wound the brightness way down as far as possible and allowed your eyes to adapt. Overbrightness is the biggest cause of discomfort, including headaches, that I have come across and most monitors default brightness is too high. Of course it varies with monitors and environmental lighting but typically one can wind them back to 30% or lower. But this can sometimes be a problem if the monitor is also used for watching videos/movies where high brightness and contrast (as TV panels usually are) gives a more impressionable image without strain.

Also, I assume that you have tried playing around with the various light sensor optimizer and advanced settings in case they are winding the brightness up without your eyes recognising it (the eye's perception is not linear e.g. many are more familiar with the ear's non linear perception where a doubling of sound intensity is only just detectable). Even turn the ambient light sensor off.
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Old 11-03-2019, 07:11 AM   #6
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Yes, over brightness, too contrasty, wrong gamma and glossy are all tiring.

Glossy is the biggest cause of eye strain and headaches as you unconsciously re-focus on the reflected image. Plain non-gel tooth paste can reduce the gloss (don't try on a touch screen). Make sure the screen is clean first. Use a pea sized piece and no water.

Make sure no lights or window reflecting off a screen. Right angles approximately and/or a diffusing light curtain.

Don't use screen in too dark a room. Lighting should be good enough for a small print yellowed paperback book, but never ever shining on or reflecting off the screen. Working to the side of a room light.

Too big a screen is a problem for reading glasses (field of view). Also reading glasses are for book distance. A screen can easily be too far away. Sit closer to desk and have screen close. You might also need to raise a screen. I have a 2.5cm approx support at the rear of the laptop to slope the keyboard and raise the screen. I also find the laptop needs to overhang the desk by about 1cm so that the screen is close enough.

Absolutely turn any light sensors or dynamic contrast off on ANY screen, TV included. Use a fixed lighting level.
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Old 11-03-2019, 02:31 PM   #7
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I have already tried everything, my friends laugh that I spend more time preparing for work than for work.

I'm just learning to program (in python), what's interesting I am in touch with a python programmer who uses this monitor and is very proud. Even if only some of the things I can do on it will help me so much.

I paste my current job, still underdeveloped because I have recently moved.

Lamp: PHIL53 BN flat LED, 4,000 Kelvin, light output 4,400 lm. I researched the amount of lux with an android application (I don't know how to do it, but I put the phone next to my eyes towards the monitor and it was about 300, as much as the ophthalmologist recommended.).

Two EIZO EV2455 monitors set to 6000K.

I set them so that they have a similar color as the piece of paper placed next to it.

In Dasung 2019 models, input lag is really low, comparatively better than in 2017 models (there are few on the market, probably none of you have tested them yet).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXnZPvQiiPo&t=919s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGS8LkZWdM4&t=7s
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Old 11-03-2019, 10:23 PM   #8
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Depends how you plan to use e-ink to code.

If you plan to everything on the e-ink screen, then things like color coding will be poor, maybe unusable. It will all come out as grey scale.

Anyway, the best monitor will be a dasung or an onyx tablet that doubles as a monitor. I personally would go with the onyx. They are solid kit, though have faults.

Alternately, if you are willing to just work in an ascii editor to code then send it to your workstation, you have options. Any onyx ereader will do, though I'd go 7.8" in landscape. Type or edit the code in jota. You can use the on-screen keyboard. You can install hackers keyboard. You can do it lying on the sofa. Or you can connect a BT keyboard and run vi. Then send and compile on pc.
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Old 11-06-2019, 08:04 PM   #9
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Anyway, the best monitor will be a dasung or an onyx tablet that doubles as a monitor. I personally would go with the onyx. They are solid kit, though have faults.
The Onyx Boox Max serie is ok as an ereader, but it is useless as a monitor because of the input lag. The Dasung monitors seem to be much better on that front.
ContadorPL, you should check those monitor review videos. I think the guy doing the video is a programmer too :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QQkJGdiI1I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOPc7hEDp5g

PS: Be carefull with Goodereader.com reviews of Onyx vs Dasung. As a reseller of Onyx boox, Goodereader.com has a clear incentive to praise the Onyx Max and push down the Dasung. I don't think you can be a seller and a fair reviewer at the same time: conflict of interest.

Last edited by Antonio7; 11-06-2019 at 08:07 PM.
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Old 11-07-2019, 09:41 AM   #10
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his reviews are pathetically bad, and the comments under this review are gold: D
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Old 11-08-2019, 04:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrustratedReader View Post
No model is going to very good for programming / editing. Actual novel / fiction writing is more sequential, though no WP I know offers a paged GUI, even when showing page mode they scroll!

So you need viewing and editing software that's page based, not scroll based. I don't know of any.

[...]

I thought an eink screen would be nice for at least novel writing, maybe programming, but no suitable page only applications exist that I know of on Windows or Linux.
I have been there. You can center pages on LibreOffice with a keystroke, bound to "Zoom [to] Entire Page". That was found exactly to be able to do page-based application text editing.
Please see my post #24 at the Page Office Automation - Text editing / Word processing thread.
You will want to set the page accordingly, please also see my post at
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...&postcount=675, especially for the sentence
«Document pages set at 21x31cm with thin margins, a keyboard shortcut set to center the double-page box in the screen at will»


Quote:
Originally Posted by FrustratedReader View Post
I started programming with punched cards, then line editors, then full screen editing in 1979. I've also written a text editor. Sadly a 2002 top of the range matt finish 1600 x 1200 LCD was better for program or novel editing than most screens today on laptops less than $1500. The Retina type screen is pointless as the screen size usually means 200% scale and shape is the dumb 16:9
I am not sure about your position: a 400$ laptop with a good 1920x1080, 14'' display will offer an excellent GUI, provided you spend the required amount of time setting it properly. A higher resolution will just improve the definition - provided, again, as you certainly know, that you set it and fine tune it. While I agree in general on 16:9, allow me to quote myself again, it is not a terrible resolution for coding on IDEs - you will want to arrange your panels in columns.
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Old 11-08-2019, 04:20 PM   #12
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I have already tried everything, my friends laugh that I spend more time preparing for work than for work.
In this case, I encourage you to try EPD. I mean: if you have these difficulties with standard displays...
EPD is suboptimal for programming. But it can be done. You may have little choice.

Beware: you will have efforts to spend to make your work station optimal. Again: you will have for example to counter ghosting (it cannot be good for your eyes).

But I can also encourage you to check the PixelQi displays. For programming, they could be much better than EPD.


Quote:
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In Dasung 2019 models, input lag is really low, comparatively better than in 2017 models (there are few on the market, probably none of you have tested them yet)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio7 View Post
The Onyx Boox Max serie is ok as an ereader, but it is useless as a monitor because of the input lag. The Dasung monitors seem to be much better on that front
Numbers required. I myself have counted frames many times on videos I have taken to get some objective values.
And as some implementation side may vary, but the displays are the same, if the lag changes from product A to product B I want to see the numbers, because such difference is all but granted.
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