Ebook readers - a challenge to average users

[Barcey]

Originally Posted by shousa

You like your ebook reader?

Then respond to this thread to tell those of us (me included that really loves the IDEA) that cannot commit to purchasing an ebook reader.

Why in the world would I want to try to convince you? I want to try to sell you my used paper books.

Please don't buy the cheap paper back editions of the "Master of Rome Series". I have all 6 books in the original hardcover edition that I'll gladly sell you at the paper back price (plus shipping). I think most of us would agree that the hard cover editions will last longer and are a better reading experience. I probably paid an average of US$26 for each of the books so you'd be getting a good discount too. I loved the series but I have to warn you it's not for everyone. I recommended the series to three people I thought would enjoy it and none of them did so I decided it must just be a personal defect they I liked them.

IMHO none of the current crop of electronic readers are perfect but any of the e-Ink devices are better then the paper book alternative. If you don't see the advantages though my recommendation is wait. They're going to get better and less expensive.

If you want to buy my hardcover editions send me a private email. If you do I'll use the money to purchase electronic editions of the same books if/when they become available. I don't see myself ever reading the paper books again and the publishers don't offer me an upgrade to the electronic editions so they're just paper weight to me now.

FYI. They take up just less then a foot of book shelf space and weigh about 16lbs. If I load them all on my Cybook it will still weigh 6.13 ounces (sorry couldn't resist).

[lmarie]

Adios. This doesn't sound like a place that interests you much anyway.

As for lowly little average me, I have a very lowly average EB1150 and I think it's great. I can get more mysteries than I will probably ever be able to read, which is why I got it. I wasn't look for the entire universe in an ebook!

[ProfJulie]

Why did I get an eBook Reader?

1: Portability, baby! I love that I can carry a ton of books around with me without having to weigh down my briefcase or purse.

2: I'll save money in the long run: I read a lot of paperback books that don't have much literary value, but are great reads. I know I won't read them again, so usually just give them away to the library, friends, anyone who wants them. Now I'll be checking out most of those kinds of books as eBooks from the library. The ones I can't find at the library, I'll probably buy, and most of them only cost about $7 or $8. I'll save quite a lot of money that way and won't have to worry about overdue library charges.

3: Reduces clutter: My current bookshelves are overflowing. I really don't have room for more books - I have a hard time giving them up even if I know I probably won't read them again. eBooks don't require much space, I can keep them as long as I wish, and I don't have to figure out how to dispose of them once I've decided I don't want them laying around any more.

Now, if I could just get my favorite magazines in eBook format, I might actually start subscribing to magazines again......

The original poster seems to be someone who really wants an eBook reader, but just can't cut the cord on paper books. Truth be told, I'll probably still buy some paper books too, but now I have more options.

[mores]

Why haven't I gotten an eBook reader yet? Simple: there aren't any available in Austria, Europe. I have also yet to see one in real life.
So while I wait and think of the pros and cons, I read on my Symbian Smartphone.
And I must admit that I am not sure I would actually get one of the current devices, were they available to me. I love reading on my phone, like to travel light (when I'm not lugging around my laptop) and definately like to have my phone with me all the time.

Paper books will not multiply on my bookshelves ... I am certain I'll remain digital.

[tribble]

Originally Posted by mores

Why haven't I gotten an eBook reader yet? Simple: there aren't any available in Austria, Europe. I have also yet to see one in real life.

Hehe, i am willing to sell you an ereader to Austria

But if you have not seen an eink display, i can understand that you are reluctant to just get one, although i am very pleased with my readers.
And if you are patient enough, there will be better ones around in a year from now.

[recycledelectron]

Originally Posted by shousa

You like your ebook reader?

Then respond to this thread to tell those of us (me included that really loves the IDEA) that cannot commit to purchasing an ebook reader.

Or did you buy it cause you love useless gadgets?!

I find my PRS-505 indespensible. It gives me one option that nothing else can: Do you remember the old Sierra Online games, where your RPG character would be carrying 500 items, and not look like he had anything is his pockets? My PRS-505 lets me carry 200 books and not carry anything other than a small folder. Unlike a laptop, the battery life is great.

Originally Posted by shousa

Here are my arguments why all ebook readers now are SIMPLY NOWHERE NEAR GOOD ENOUGH for the average consumer IMHO.

If you have any financial or other ties to Sony, Hanlin, Cybook, Kindle or Irex then please do not participate at all, I want the view of the AVERAGE consumer not seller.

I've got no financial ties, and I hate Sony.

I remember thinking that tape players were definitely not for the average consumer - the battery life was 25 minutes, and the tapes lasted 45 minutes. That was absurd. Add on the shorter commercial tapes that would not let you copy them, and I gave up until MP3 players came along.

MP3 players were adopted slowly, with some users using Napster, some ripping CDs, and a (very) few buying MP3 tracks. The same progression is occurring with eBooks.

Originally Posted by shousa

If we take the views that
1) an Ebook reader tied to one ebook store will die because of restrictive DRM

The PRS-505 that I use has never been connected to Sony's web site, and works fine as a PDF, JPG, RTF reader, & MP3 player.

Connect it to a PC and it works as a card reader.

The software from Sony will never be installed.

Originally Posted by shousa

2) Ebook readers need more than one ebook store

I use PDF, RTF, JPG, and MP3 files.

Originally Posted by shousa

Then the conclusion is:
- All current ebook readers will die.

See my post 1.5 years ago - Ebook readers the next dodo - nothing has changed....sigh
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6673

Originally Posted by shousa

I challenge even one of the forum members to say they actually can use it for all their paperback needs,

No, I don't. I just read a paper copy of Ken Alibeck(ov)'s "Biohazard."

This is like my continued use of tapes for audio books in my pickup when I had my first MP3 player. I found it easier to borrow a tape from the library and pop it in my pickup's tape deck, than to borrow it, rip it, copy it to my MP3 player, connect my MP3 player to a FM transmitter, and then play it. OTOH, 90% of my audio books were in MP3 formats. MP3 let me do things that tape players never did.

My PRS-505 lets me do things a paperback never will. I can carry every text book for 10 years in a 1 lb package.

Originally Posted by shousa

including keeping ebooks forever,

I have a 1TB library that I've built over a decade, that is mirrored and backed up off site. .PDFs that I create don't expire.

Originally Posted by shousa

buying all the books they want (can only get 1 of Colleen McCulloughs critically famous Masters of Rome Series) the list goes on eg multiple web pages of any reasonable size do not work etc etc etc

The Copyright laws in the USA don't force anyone to sell anything in any format. That's in the Constitution - Article I.

Of course, anyone who does not allow consumers the convenience of buying what they want in the format they want will loose in the free market. (Remember the recording industry?)

Currently, it's a PITA to publish eBooks due to formats, DRM, etc.

The EU us doing something interesting with standard DRM (which will not work due to standard cracks.) If we did have standard DRM, then more publishers could get into eBooks, as compared to the current format confusion.

Once more publishers get into it, they will be available. This may take decades. Think of the MP3 availability of music.

Originally Posted by shousa

Are only techno freaks are buying ebook readers now? - I read somewhere Sony had poor sales records, if that is true I bet the CEO wished he had not got up at the annual general meeting with the Sony Ebook Reader touting how great it was gonna be.

True, the early adopters of eBooks are techno geeks and book geeks. Right now I don't know anyone interested in an eBook who does not have several PCs and massive bookshelves.

Originally Posted by shousa

Ebook reader = waste of money, can't get the books you want, DRM sucks, can't put webpages on it but can read old public domain stuff plus a very limited range of ebooks only.

Ebook reader lovers respond to this challenge or suffer the loss of face that silence will bring you!!

The books you want and the books I want are different. I get the books I want. You could have claimed that the music people wanted was not available form online MP3 stores in the early days of MP3s.

Here's a tip to publishers: If you want to sell books, sell them online. Also, include a CD in the back of the book that has the MP3 audio book and the eBook. The profits from audio books being sold separately pale in comparison to the huge sales advantage you would gain from people knowing that they get the book, ebook, and audio book for one purchase.

Our current model comes from the days of tapes that cost $20 for the media and replication. Today, CDs cost $0.10 each when packaged with a book. Even paperbacks could include mini-CDs.

When every Penguin book (for example) is known to come with a CD, they will get much more popular.

If you don't adapt to the market, the market will pass you by. It may not be fair, but it is reality.

Watermarking will allow you to limit piracy, and catch most idiots. Today's POS systems will allow you to track (by RFID) the individual eBook or MP3 back to one credit card. Track what you can, and send a polite letter from the author (have him/her sign it) to anyone who distributes their copies of your files. Ask Baen about their success in this area.

Andy

[allen.gotwald]

Shousa,
Your premise states that "if I can't get whatever paperback I want, whenever I want then the ebook system is a failed system." In fact, the availablility of texts via the electronic network for use on the PRS-505 is far superior to Amazon's on-line hard text selection or any bookstore I currently visit. Try to find AE Merritt novels, Edgar Rice Burroughs complete Tarzan series or HR Haggard's novels at a bookstore (all online here and at Gutenberg.net). (Don't forget to buy them and pay for shipping at Amazon if you can find the book you're looking for).

The point is that these are profit making institutions who will place for sale only those texts people are currently buying. I'd recommend you peruse Gutenberg.net for available etexts that can easily be put into LRF or RTF format compatible with the SONY PRS 505. I have found other bookstores that cater to the BBeB format. The point is not that I can't find everything at one site. The point is that you have a drastically limited capability without an ereader. I would submit that you have failed in your supposition by failing to demonstrate how those without access to a reader have a superior text selection capability through hard-text purchases. I believe the reverse is true.

Your second premise that ebooks are tied to a single ebook store is also flawed and extremely myopic. I just don't believe you conducted any research and are looking to others to do your homework for you.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by recycledelectron

You could have claimed that the music people wanted was not available form online MP3 stores in the early days of MP3s.

I certainly could... I listen to primarily classic jazz. There wasn't a lot of stuff on early MP3 sites for me. It's still that way, in fact... the amount of old jazz is pathetic compared to the amount of old rock out there.

E-books are the same: Certain genres are proliic in e-books (like romance), others are not. It takes times, and standardization of formats, DRM, etc, to get everyone on-board. Sony and Amazon should help this along, thanks to their reach into the industries, and bring more genres of e-books to market.

[Alisa]

You seem to think that we should take your concept of the "average" consumer and what this "average" consumer wants as gospel. The average consumer doesn't actually read much and wouldn't be interested in something that allowed them to carry a bookshelf's worth of books with them.

By the way, my "paperback needs" do not include keeping the book forever. I have trouble finding places that will take donations of all the old books. I'm out of space and they make me sneeze. I rarely re-read a book. I think I can do quite well at calculating my needs without you telling me what they are.

[shousa]

Originally Posted by allen.gotwald

Shousa,
Your premise states that "if I can't get whatever paperback I want, whenever I want then the ebook system is a failed system." In fact, the availablility of texts via the electronic network for use on the PRS-505 is far superior to Amazon's on-line hard text selection or any bookstore I currently visit. Try to find AE Merritt novels, Edgar Rice Burroughs complete Tarzan series or HR Haggard's novels at a bookstore (all online here and at Gutenberg.net). (Don't forget to buy them and pay for shipping at Amazon if you can find the book you're looking for).

The point is that these are profit making institutions who will place for sale only those texts people are currently buying. I'd recommend you peruse Gutenberg.net for available etexts that can easily be put into LRF or RTF format compatible with the SONY PRS 505. I have found other bookstores that cater to the BBeB format. The point is not that I can't find everything at one site. The point is that you have a drastically limited capability without an ereader. I would submit that you have failed in your supposition by failing to demonstrate how those without access to a reader have a superior text selection capability through hard-text purchases. I believe the reverse is true.

Your second premise that ebooks are tied to a single ebook store is also flawed and extremely myopic. I just don't believe you conducted any research and are looking to others to do your homework for you.

Incorrect on all counts - I have already done the research (I was on this forum 1.5 years ago) - my point is simply to stir the pot so that Sony and Amazon notice. About the "myopic view" - simply put you did not ready all my posts before making that comment. For example I can right now buy the books I mentioned as paperbacks, I did not make the statement any book etc must be available now.

Please read the comments fully before posting - I already understand LRF and other issues you have raised. Click on my name to see all my posts.

BTW from my understanding your beloved Sony has around 20,000 ebooks and Amazon has 90,000 making your statement incorrect from my view. Now check how many books can be ordered from Amazon 20,077,318 - so you are saying this is less?!!? I really think you did no research on this and find your comment about my lack of proof (when I thought none was needed on this issue because for me it "is a given") to be honest, incomprehensible and off topic from what my challenge was.

I buy all my books from Amazon BTW.

Gutenburg etc and other public domain sources were specifically excluded from my challenge. Please read the earlier posts which defined the challenge because all I am doing is constantly stating this - so you did not read the earlier posts.

[shousa]

Originally Posted by Alisa

You seem to think that we should take your concept of the "average" consumer and what this "average" consumer wants as gospel. The average consumer doesn't actually read much and wouldn't be interested in something that allowed them to carry a bookshelf's worth of books with them.

By the way, my "paperback needs" do not include keeping the book forever. I have trouble finding places that will take donations of all the old books. I'm out of space and they make me sneeze. I rarely re-read a book. I think I can do quite well at calculating my needs without you telling me what they are.

So you have defined the "average consumer" as not wanting to keep books they have bought.....for me this is what the library is for. But I am not interesting in arguing what the average is - I made a definition for my challenge that is all.

Again arguing semantics is off-topic IMHO, either take the challenge or don't.

[shousa]

BTW recycledelectron - thanks very much for taking the challenge instead of arguing semantics.

I enjoyed your post very much - it was the kind of thoughtful, informed and intelligent kind of post I was looking for - you deserve a karma boost!

Profjulie deserves a boost too!

[Alisa]

You might get a better reaction to your posts if you were a little more engaging and a little less confrontational and controlling.

And the "average" consumer that I know that actually reads enough to be a target for this device is regularly having to get rid of books. I know a few people that do horde them. Most are desperate for more shelf space.

[shousa]

Originally Posted by Alisa

You might get a better reaction to your posts if you were a little more engaging and a little less confrontational and controlling.

And the "average" consumer that I know that actually reads enough to be a target for this device is regularly having to get rid of books. I know a few people that do horde them. Most are desperate for more shelf space.

Sorry.....fair comment on the first point - my view was that it was a challenge, perhaps I took it too far - was not meant to hurt anyone's feelings.

Very good second comment.

BTW I wasn't meaning my view should be taken as gospel. It was simply a defined assumption for the challenge (the parameters of it). Another day I could post a different assumption for the same thing to see another result - that is all it was. Perhaps if I could have expressed myself better perhaps people would not have got bogged down on this point but I honestly thought I had made that clear at the time.

[Kitty]

Originally Posted by shousa

... Then respond to this thread to tell those of us (me included that really loves the IDEA) that cannot commit to purchasing an ebook reader.

Or did you buy it cause you love useless gadgets?!...

In spite of the nagging voice in the back of my head that says, "Don't bother," here I go ...

I believe I'm fairly average as a consumer. I bought mine because I like the idea of having in one place, a light-weight copy of more than one book. I'm one of those odd-ducks that has at least three (usually more) "reads" going at once. With the reader, I can read whichever book I'm in the mood for without being restricted to "the one stashed at work" or "the one on the nightstand" or "the one in glovebox."

I researched and found a reader that will handle a reasonable number of easily available formats. I researched, found, and bookmarked at least three websites that offer current, popular literature. I found a couple that offer more arcane and out-of-print items. The places from which I buy have selections that do not require additional manipulation to read.

Finally, I like the idea of being able to have a library that doesn't take up my entire home. After reading the ebooks, I can store them on CDs, pen-drives, disk-cards, whatever's handy.

I don't expect this to have convinced you, shousa. Quite frankly, you came to the forum sounding as if you had no real desire to be convinced differently. That's okay. When you're ready (assuming you will be someday) to take the plunge into e-readers, I'm quite sure you will and no nay-sayers' arguments will change your mind.