09-20-2018, 05:27 PM | #91 |
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What point was the author making about sex? It struck me as odd that the teenagers learned about sex and its importance to non-clones, implying that they might someday be interacting with non-clones; and that they engaged in a lot of it casually. What was the relevance?
I also wondered about the inability of the clones to reproduce; animals that are cloned don't have any such limitation, so was he just ignoring science because he didn't know better, or did he want to convey something to the reader? |
09-20-2018, 06:55 PM | #92 |
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I wondered if they were neutered at a young age or (more likely) it was some form of genetic modification. I can see that it would make sense in a society that thought that way, to ensure that the female clones didn’t have children because of the toll that could have on their bodies.
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09-20-2018, 07:03 PM | #93 | |
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Quote:
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09-20-2018, 07:17 PM | #94 | |
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If I were setting up this dystopia, I'd make one class of clones Breeders, whose job it is to reproduce; and another Donors, whose job it is to donate. |
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09-20-2018, 07:27 PM | #95 |
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A society that doesn't class people as fully human probably doesn't want them breeding with "normal" people. And real world science has little to do with the science in this dystopia. Whether a natural result of the program or deliberate doesn't really matter.
This book reminds me somewhat of an academic essay on a narrow topic. The type that starts off with a set of assumptions that are to be presumed true and not questioned for the purposes of that essay. The author in this book concentrates on what he wants to write about with scant regard to anything else. It seems fairly apparent that this ruined the book for many of us here, but not all of us. |
09-20-2018, 07:55 PM | #96 |
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The author did not intend to make a scientifically realistic world. It is a world that has been imagined in his head, and he has disclosed to the reader that a known condition of this world is that the clones cannot breed. We have to accept that as a fact, and I think it’s a good question to ask what was his intent. I think that he was emphasizing that the clones have a singular purpose to become donors until completion. If they were able to reproduce, and perhaps extend that to create family units, that would give them additional purpose and distraction towards their donation purpose and possibly impact their passivity towards their fate.
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09-20-2018, 09:43 PM | #97 | ||
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To take the last bit first:
Quote:
In Never Let Me Go we don't know whether the sterilisation was genetic or some other mechanism. We must presume it was deliberate on the part of the society, and the author, so the relevant question is not how, but why? I think there are probably multiple answers, the main ones already touched on: that you don't want clones breeding with non-clones; that you want clones to have only one driving purpose; that breeding can be detrimental to our bodies. I'd also add that the (non-clone) human body is awash with chemicals related to breeding and these chemicals make us emotionally and physically unstable. Remove or reduce such fluctuations and you help to stabilise the person. Quote:
Last edited by gmw; 09-20-2018 at 09:49 PM. Reason: adjust layout |
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09-20-2018, 10:06 PM | #98 |
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It doesn't make sense to me. When the author ignores scientific reality--facts so simple and obvious to even a person like me whose scientific background is extremely minimal--he either has to have a story-related reason, or he's too damn lazy to do basic research. I'm not seeing the story-related reason for his departures from reality.
Last edited by Catlady; 09-20-2018 at 10:09 PM. |
09-20-2018, 11:34 PM | #99 | |
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@Catlady. Am I wrong in assuming that there is zero chance of you ever reading "The Girl With All The Gifts"? Even the first couple of chapters? |
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09-21-2018, 12:32 AM | #100 |
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I had thought - hoped - we'd gotten past the "science". There is no scientific presentation in this book, there are no facts to argue about. I saw nothing scientifically impossible in this book. I've certainly seen bigger stretches in other science-fiction - most of it (because the "science" of Never Let Me Go is not particularly interesting). Most of the details that have been questioned have some possible explanation. Whether the explanations are probable is another matter, but we've been through them so there is no need to repeat.
I find it curious that a rebellion or escape might be thought to make the story more credible. How can that be? Whether any attempted rebellion or escape was successful or not, it in no way changes the credibility of the starting situation, it only changes how you feel about it. Don't you find that a bit interesting? |
09-21-2018, 03:54 AM | #101 | |||
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Another thing to consider which says a lot about the society: who is her audience? It is clear from the beginning that she is writing the story for other clones. In Chapter 1 on about the second page, she writes: Quote:
In Chapter 2 she writes in talking about Hailsham: Quote:
For me, this shows again the total isolation of the clones from the "normal" human society. It doesn't occur to her that a non-clone might read her book. And so going back to earlier comments, I don't think there would be any question of a relationship between a clone and a member of the society they served. There might of course be sexual abuse of the children by the people who were supposed to be their guardians. Sadly, we know only too well these days how that could be the case. But a consenting relationship between adults? No, I don't think so. |
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09-21-2018, 04:55 AM | #102 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
It shouldn't, I've seen enough of it, but I still continue to find this sort of thing surprising and intriguing. It's always: how can that be? (Like finding people that don't like truly favourite books of mine: no, that's impossible, you must have missed something! ) |
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09-21-2018, 04:56 AM | #103 | |
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@Bookpossum.
I suspect that it was not prohibited but not encouraged. The clones were told: Quote:
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09-21-2018, 07:55 AM | #104 |
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I have no interest in scientific nuts and bolts as story-telling, probably a large (but not the only) reason I don't care for science fiction, but social and economic underpinnings to a story can trip me up.
That said, I will admit that I probably got too caught up in what I referred to earlier as the slight framework for this story which I thought couldn't bear the weight of whatever Ishiguro was trying to express, that is, that there wasn't enough story so it was far too easy to project anything at all onto it. A form of parable, if I can make that comparison. But the discussion has caused me to appreciate more the language and the indirection used by Ishiguro to tell his story, so I need to step back a bit and not get so caught up in the minutiae. However, I still don't think his "point," if it can be called that, is all that interesting nor is the means he's using to tell it compelling enough for me. It needed to be one or the other - a fresh concept or a story that was more than a schooldays romantic triangle at base. |
09-21-2018, 07:55 AM | #105 |
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Ah thanks darryl - I had forgotten that comment.
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