Export to ePub from InDesign CS5 - Page 3

nhmuse · 10-21-2011, 08:21 AM

thanks, Wannabee -- that gives you a text version of the TOC, but not a linked version that would appear as part of the ereader interface, correct?

wannabee · 10-21-2011, 07:28 PM

Correct. If you want an inline TOC you have to manually create one using hyperlinks.

JSWolf · 10-27-2011, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wannabee

Correct. If you want an inline TOC you have to manually create one using hyperlinks.

But remember, this is ePub. It just looks silly to have an internal toc when ePub has toc.ncx.

Jellby · 10-28-2011, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

It just looks silly to have an internal toc when ePub has toc.ncx.

Not necessarily. The internal TOC can contain pictures, descriptions, etc., and be in general more verbose than the NCX.

In some cases, they will both be the same, and then it's redundant, granted. But in some cases there is more info in the TOC than a simple list of chapters.

nhmuse · 10-28-2011, 10:48 AM

Yes, Jellby! Actually, I've seen in the recommendations somewhere on the mobileread or Amazon site, or maybe it was in Liz Castro's book or in multiple references, that doing both kinds of TOC is recommended, because some readers prefer the internal TOC, which can be made "richer" as you described, and some readers prefer the built-in toc.ncx. So you are pleasing the most people if you do both.

JSWolf · 10-28-2011, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellby

Not necessarily. The internal TOC can contain pictures, descriptions, etc., and be in general more verbose than the NCX.

In some cases, they will both be the same, and then it's redundant, granted. But in some cases there is more info in the TOC than a simple list of chapters.

In most cases, it's nothing more then a duplication of toc.nxc and not needed. Then they go an link the chapter headers back to the internal ToC. Not good at all. And this (IMHO) is because of Amazon so when they convert the ePub to mobi, the ToC is not at the end which is a software flaw in the conversion and not an ePub issue.

JSWolf · 10-28-2011, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhmuse

Yes, Jellby! Actually, I've seen in the recommendations somewhere on the mobileread or Amazon site, or maybe it was in Liz Castro's book or in multiple references, that doing both kinds of TOC is recommended, because some readers prefer the internal TOC, which can be made "richer" as you described, and some readers prefer the built-in toc.ncx. So you are pleasing the most people if you do both.

How are you pleasing both? If you have people who prefer toc.nxc, then having the internal ToC is not pleasing at all. Unless the internal ToC is that much better, there's no need for it. Get rid of it. It just makes you look like you are cow-towing to Amazon.

DaleDe · 10-28-2011, 01:13 PM

I suspect you are not going to convince John to change his opinion. The best bet is to ignore his comments on internal TOC, they are his opinion and not the opinion of the management.

Dale

JSWolf · 10-28-2011, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

I suspect you are not going to convince John to change his opinion. The best bet is to ignore his comments on internal TOC, they are his opinion and not the opinion of the management.

Dale

A lot of people I've talked to feel the same or similar about internal ToC in ePub. Why do you think it's a good idea to go backwards with the ToC?

DaleDe · 10-28-2011, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

A lot of people I've talked to feel the same or similar about internal ToC in ePub. Why do you think it's a good idea to go backwards with the ToC?

Well it is not backwards, just different.
1. Sometimes the printed TOC is different text or different levels than online TOC. Some internal TOC's even include short descriptions.
2. The external TOC only displays one level at a time for multilevel for most readers and perhaps the user can use the internal TOC to see a full perspective of the book and it may be easier to scan through with more lines per page.
3. In addition some folks want to preserve the printed book to the extent possible. Others are also making a mobi book and they want them to be similar.
4. ePub 3 has adopted a pure html approach for the TOC using ol, li syntax so it is easy to have both using the exact same document. I do not see an internal TOC as doing any harm, it is easily skipped.
5. A few readers don't do multilevel well for the external TOC anyway thus making the internal one a good option.
6. External TOC doesn't use embedded fonts, while the internal one does.

Dale

JSWolf · 10-28-2011, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

Well it is not backwards, just different.
1. Sometimes the printed TOC is different text or different levels than online TOC. Some internal TOC's even include short descriptions.
2. The external TOC only displays one level at a time for multilevel for most readers and perhaps the user can use the internal TOC to see a full perspective of the book and it may be easier to scan through with more lines per page.
3. In addition some folks want to preserve the printed book to the extent possible. Others are also making a mobi book and they want them to be similar.
4. ePub 3 has adopted a pure html approach for the TOC using ol, li syntax so it is easy to have both using the exact same document. I do not see an internal TOC as doing any harm, it is easily skipped.
5. A few readers don't do multilevel well for the external TOC anyway thus making the internal one a good option.
6. External TOC doesn't use embedded fonts, while the internal one does.

Dale

1. I find those just too bloated.
2. Still it's in the way and when you get books that have pages of ToC, it just gets to be a pest having to flip past.
3. Preserving the printed book...most novels don't have a ToC. So an internal ToC is not preserving anything as the internal ToC never actually existed in print.
4. Easily skipped in some cases, not all. And it doesn't look good.
5. Blame the software, not the format. Most readers use ADE and ADE works with multilevel toc.ncx just fine.
6. But it's there and annoying no matter what font.

pholy · 10-29-2011, 09:07 AM

I give up, Jon; we're never going to convince you to to tolerate an in-line ToC.

Now you give up, too. Your rationale will not convince me to change my opinion.

That's all it is: opinions; you have yours, I have mine.

If you are having trouble skipping past my in-line ToC you can always use the external one to find the place where you want to start reading...

JSWolf · 10-29-2011, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pholy

I give up, Jon; we're never going to convince you to to tolerate an in-line ToC.

Now you give up, too. Your rationale will not convince me to change my opinion.

That's all it is: opinions; you have yours, I have mine.

If you are having trouble skipping past my in-line ToC you can always use the external one to find the place where you want to start reading...

One thing I've never read or heard from anyone...

"Gee, I wish this ePub had an internal ToC."

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10-21-2011, 08:21 AM	#31
nhmuse Member Posts: 17 Karma: 10 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Rye, NH Device: ADE, Kindle, ipod	thanks, Wannabee -- that gives you a text version of the TOC, but not a linked version that would appear as part of the ereader interface, correct?

10-21-2011, 07:28 PM	#32
wannabee Media Bloke Posts: 2,381 Karma: 113956855 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: NSW - Australia Device: iOS	Correct. If you want an inline TOC you have to manually create one using hyperlinks.

10-28-2011, 10:48 AM	#35
nhmuse Member Posts: 17 Karma: 10 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Rye, NH Device: ADE, Kindle, ipod	Yes, Jellby! Actually, I've seen in the recommendations somewhere on the mobileread or Amazon site, or maybe it was in Liz Castro's book or in multiple references, that doing both kinds of TOC is recommended, because some readers prefer the internal TOC, which can be made "richer" as you described, and some readers prefer the built-in toc.ncx. So you are pleasing the most people if you do both.

10-28-2011, 01:13 PM	#38
DaleDe Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,470 Karma: 13095790 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Grass Valley, CA Device: EB 1150, EZ Reader, Literati, iPad 2 & Air 2, iPhone 7	I suspect you are not going to convince John to change his opinion. The best bet is to ignore his comments on internal TOC, they are his opinion and not the opinion of the management. Dale

10-29-2011, 09:07 AM	#42
pholy Booklegger Posts: 1,801 Karma: 7999816 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Device: BeBook(1 & 2010), PEZ, PRS-505, Kobo BT, PRS-T1, Playbook, Kobo Touch	I give up, Jon; we're never going to convince you to to tolerate an in-line ToC. Now you give up, too. Your rationale will not convince me to change my opinion. That's all it is: opinions; you have yours, I have mine. If you are having trouble skipping past my in-line ToC you can always use the external one to find the place where you want to start reading...