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Old 09-16-2018, 06:02 PM   #1
Tex2002ans
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Does Tool Exist to Spellcheck/Grammarcheck by Category?

I was wondering if anyone has come across anything like this in their travels? If so, please let me know.

To my knowledge, most tools allow you to check and replace on a one-by-one basis. They don't give you an easy way to see all spelling/grammar errors on a document-wide level.

What I Envision

Sample Input:

Quote:
This is the 1st erro. My names is tex. second, this is a diferent error. And this is a 2nd erro. i converted 2 diferent dollars to erros when I visited Europe.
Potential Output:
  • (5) Spelling
    • (3) erro -> error
      • This is the 1st erro.
      • And this is a 2nd erro.
      • i converted 2 diferent dollars to erros when I visited Europe.
    • (2) diferent -> different
      • second, this is a diferent error.
      • i converted 2 diferent dollars to erros when I visited Europe.
  • (3) Grammar
    • (1) is -> are
      • My names is tex.
    • (2) Capitalization
      • (1) Second
        • My names is tex. second, this is a diferent error 1.
      • (1) I
        • i converted 2 diferent dollars to erros when I visited Europe.

Seeing them broken down this way would allow you to easily tell, at a glance, how many of which types there are + surrounding context.

You could also focus purely within a category to see if the recommendations are actually correct:
  • (diferent -> different). You would be able to "Replace All" in one swoop.
  • But (erro -> error), "dollars to erros" should be "dollars to euros".

Current Tools (That I'm aware of)

One-by-One Checking (Most tools are like this)

If using Word/LibreOffice, you have to go through one-by-one in the order they appear, and Correct/Ignore/Ignore All.

Click image for larger version

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Pain Point: Word's grammarcheck frustrating, because you can only "Ignore" and CAN'T "Ignore All". On a huge book, this takes forever.

Pain Point #2: In large works, there are typically common issues repeated throughout the entire document (author misspells "erros" + consistently misses a comma before/after certain words). You can't easily tackle all comma errors in a given pass, or solve them consistently, because you're constantly flipflopping between all the different types of issues.

Pain Point #3: Another frustration in Word is when you get the dreaded "Too many spelling or grammatical errors" and it refuses to show you the red/blue squigglies within your document. This makes seeing context much more difficult.

List-based Grammar-checking

LanguageTool's standalone tool allows you to get an entire list of grammar errors in the order they appear:

Click image for larger version

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This is pretty great! And it allows you to "Ignore All" entire rules.

But because you can't easily tell how many hits this rule actually caught in the entire book (is there just 1? Or 50?), you sometimes don't want to Ignore the entire rule.

Pain Point: Because you can't easily ignore, there are a ton of false positives clogging up the list.

Pain Point #2: You also aren't too sure what Ignoring a certain rule would effect. Take for example, the "Capitalization" grammar rule:

1. Ignore that specific instance of that specific word?
- That second -> Second would be ignored, future ones would be caught
2. Ignore all future instances of that specific word?
--- second -> Second would be ignored, future "second"s also ignored.
3. Ignore all cases of capitalization errors?
--- second -> Second would be ignored, but so would i -> I.

List-based Spell-checking

Sigil/Calibre allow you to use the Spellchecking Lists to see errors in mass.

This allows you to see all misspelled words in the entire book in an easy to view list, but you can only see individual words, not the surrounding context:

Click image for larger version

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ID:	166345

You have to manually search for these words, or doubleclick the word X times in the Spellcheck List to jump to each instance.

Pain Point: Again, when working on huge books, this can be a pain, especially if it's dealing with words that are very common, but potential misspellings in some contexts (or OCR errors, like "modem"<->"modern").

Reason Why I Thought of This

I recently was looking at what they added into the latest versions of Word, and saw they introduced an "Editor Pane":

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...3-6ea27c8f31f1

It finally allows you to split the Spelling + Grammar into separate steps (one of my pet peeves with a lot of the tools, constantly flipflopping between "Spelling Mode" and "Grammar Mode").

Sigil's method is by far my favorite way to spellcheck, but I think the hybrid approach I mentioned above (with lists AND context), would be yet another way to correct errors efficiently.
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Old 09-16-2018, 09:56 PM   #2
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Short answer is No.

Some notes on my usage of Word 2016’s spell checker.

Because I dodge in and out of it a lot, I have the Proofing Options panel in the Quick Access toolbar; Alt 9 opens it.

Early on in my workflow (after EpubTools S&R), I do a pass with "Check grammar with spelling" unset. It's not perfect, punctuation ‘errors’ (e.g. missing comma’s etc), which I regard as grammatical/stylistic issues, will pop up; but if you have strict Grammar and Refinements [1] settings most of those are excluded.

In an ideal world there would be discrete Spelling, Punctuation, Grammar, and Style checkers.

There is a Change all option for spelling. But for me it's deficient, in that it doesn't do the corrections en-masse, it does them progressively. So, if you don't continue checking through to end of document, the 'unseen' corrections aren't made.

It also has an Ignore all, if I decide I need to review the context in which a misspelt word is used I select this option. Then after the first spelling only pass, I tap Recheck Document:

Press Alt+Numpad+ to go to 1st misspelt word, which should be something I previously ignored en-masse.

I copy/paste the word to the Navigation panel search box (I wish there was context menu option or kb short to do that). The Results tab will show the context for all occurrences of the misspelling. By stepping through the Results items, I can deal with each instance - Change, Ignore or Retype.

Tap Ctrl+Home and Alt+Numpad+ to find the next misspelt word.

In earlier versions of Word if you typed over a misspelt word, what you typed would be offered at the top of the Suggested list for subsequent occurrences of the misspelt word. That feature fell off the back of the truck sometime between 2010 and 2016. If anyone knows how to restore the feature in Word 2016, perhaps they'd let me know - either in here or in a PM.

I use Exclusion lists to exclude some spellings in some documents. FX in some texts I might prefer a word on loan from the French to be spelt with the appropriate diacritics.[2] This can result in many 'misspelt' words, the correction, via Find and Replace, involves selecting the appropriate language from the Language option in the "Formats" drop-down button.

I too quite like the Sigil and Calibre spell checkers in terms of the UI. Toxaris went some way towards doing something similar for Word in ePubTools. But I found it to be quite slow, and I didn't like having to use the hunspell dictionaries in the MS Office environment. Maybe it'll be better in version 2.0. Ideally it would have the same functionality as the native spell checker, or more, and it would use the Office dictionaries.

I'll try to come back on Grammar and Style.

BR

[1] Where did this Refinements word come from! Why replace a 5 letter 1 syllable word with an established usage: Style, with the 11 letter 3 syllable word: Refinements! Has MS been infected by the penchant for prolix that is endemic within the realms of US officialdom.

[2] Come Brexit, will the Anglosphere have to return the words it 'borrowed' from the EU languages; IIRC cravat was nicked from the Croats :-).

Last edited by BetterRed; 09-16-2018 at 10:38 PM.
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Old 09-16-2018, 11:20 PM   #3
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It looks like the Editor Pane goes some way towards my ideal of four separate checkers. But it needs a live internet connection; so, it is only available in Office 365; which I don't have

Regrettably, I ticked the box for Office Home and Business when I bought my Dell, I assumed there would be an affordable upgrade to Office 365 should I ever want it. There is an upgrade option, but last time I looked, the cost was borderline extortionate

BR

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Old 09-17-2018, 03:49 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BetterRed View Post
Short answer is No.
It's what I feared. Sort of like all the spellchecking tools before we popularized the "List-based Spellchecking". :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetterRed View Post
Some notes on my usage of Word 2016’s spell checker.
Thanks for these ideas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetterRed View Post
[indent]Because I dodge in and out of it a lot, I have the Proofing Options panel in the Quick Access toolbar; Alt 9 opens it.
When you mess with any of these Spelling/Grammar settings, doesn't Word completely "Recheck the document" from scratch?

Let's say you reached the halfway point, you've been Ignoring on a case-by-case basis. You run into a common "error" clogging up your workflow, so you go into the "Proofing Options" and change a single setting. Every... dang... change... you just Ignored gets reset.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetterRed View Post
In an ideal world there would be discrete Spelling, Punctuation, Grammar, and Style checkers.
LanguageTool has all their corrections organized into classes that you can easily check/uncheck:

Click image for larger version

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Side Note: This categorization is also a frustrating point in Word's grammarcheck.

When you get a suggestion, you have no idea WHAT rule/category this "error" actually hit, because it doesn't tell you. Look at the screenshot I gave in Post #1 for Word:

Quote:
But my indebtedness to at least three writers is of so specific a nature that I cannot allow it to pass unmentioned.
Code:
Grammar
so
|------|
|no    |
|      |
|      |
|------|
Okay, so what category is this in so I can ignore that grammar error in the future?

Click image for larger version

Name:	WordGrammarOptions1.png
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... I have no idea.

So instead, you just have to Ignore one-by-one, the same issue throughout the entire document.

And if you work on older books, non-formal stuff like Fiction, or throw in em dashes/ellipses, or variables (maths)... the false positives are through the roof!

If I saw an annoying false positive in a List-based system, I could just easily skip my eyes to the next category!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetterRed View Post
I copy/paste the word to the Navigation panel search box (I wish there was context menu option or kb short to do that). The Results tab will show the context for all occurrences of the misspelling. By stepping through the Results items, I can deal with each instance - Change, Ignore or Retype.
lol, with book-sized documents, I usually get the "There are too many results to show here".

It should be like Notepad++'s Find All. Just show me the entire list of every occurrence! I don't care if there are 100+!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetterRed View Post
Tap Ctrl+Home and Alt+Numpad+ to find the next misspelt word.
Are these default shortcuts? I tried them on my end and they didn't work.

My Ctrl+Home jumped me near the beginning of the document. And the Alt+Numpad+ inserted an equation.

Side Note: I also went into File > Options > Customize Ribbon > Keyboard Shortcuts: Customize... (ugh, what a way to bury shortcuts). And I couldn't easily find a "Find Next Misspelled Word". According to a quick search online it may be Alt+F7... where it's buried in the menus though, no idea.

Why oh why couldn't it be more like Sigil/Calibre's Shortcut pages? Full search + you could easily see what's assigned to what.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetterRed View Post
[COLOR="Gray"][1] Where did this Refinements word come from! Why replace a 5 letter 1 syllable word with an established usage: Style, with the 11 letter 3 syllable word: Refinements! Has MS been infected by the penchant for prolix that is endemic within the realms of US officialdom.
Because "Refinements" is more inclusive! :P

Spelling is the Spelling Police. ("This is an eror.")
Grammar is the Grammar Police. ("This are not an error")
Style is the Style Police. ("The Oxford Comma is simpler, correct, and superior!")
Refinements are the Refinement Police! ("This is some super duper overly wordy sentence.")

And when you let Word Replace All (heaven help you), it helps you—refine—your writing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetterRed View Post
It looks like the Editor Pane goes some way towards my ideal of four separate checkers. But it needs a live internet connection; so, it is only available in Office 365; which I don't have
Yeah... cloud-based + subscription-based stuff, no thanks.

And all of the online spellcheck/grammar tools I've run across so far are all one-by-one checkers, and/or have been purchased up/consumed by Grammarly.

Side Note: And Grammarly is horrendous. You can see how the one-by-one annoyed The Digital Reader in his review:

https://the-digital-reader.com/2017/...ing-grammarly/

Last edited by Tex2002ans; 09-17-2018 at 04:40 AM.
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Old 09-17-2018, 04:25 AM   #5
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@Tex2002ans: It's very easy to check for specific issues with the command line version of LanguageTool.

For example if you saved your test file as tex.text, you'd use the following command line to only look for agreement issues:

java -jar languagetool-commandline.jar --language en-US --enabledonly --enable AGREEMENT_SENT_START tex.txt

Code:
Working on tex.txt...
1.) Line 1, column 32, Rule ID: AGREEMENT_SENT_START[5]
Message: You should probably use: 'are'.
Suggestion: are
This is the 1st erro. My names is tex. second, this is a diferent error. And t...
                               ^^
Of course, you could also simply use LibreOffice and select the desired rules in the GUI.

Shameless plug: Sigil users could also use my LanguageTool Sigil plugin, which also allows you to enable or disable specific rules.
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Old 09-17-2018, 04:44 AM   #6
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For example if you saved your test file as tex.text, you'd use the following command line to only look for agreement issues:

Shameless plug: Sigil users could also use my LanguageTool Sigil plugin, which also allows you to enable or disable specific rules.
Hmmmm.... now if there was a way to iterate through every rule one at a time, and then recompile by category into a single unified view + make it look pretty. It would be a couple steps in the right direction!

Sounds like something my good friend Doitsu would want to tackle.

Last edited by Tex2002ans; 09-17-2018 at 04:51 AM.
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Old 09-17-2018, 06:33 AM   #7
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Shameless plug: Sigil users could also use my LanguageTool Sigil plugin, which also allows you to enable or disable specific rules.
It would be great a LanguageTool Calibre editor plugin...
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Old 09-17-2018, 07:40 AM   #8
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Shameless plug: Sigil users could also use my LanguageTool Sigil plugin, which also allows you to enable or disable specific rules.
Sounds like something my good friend Doitsu would want to tackle.
I'm afraid that's beyond my limited Python skills.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbacelar View Post
It would be a great LanguageTool Calibre editor plugin...
I totally agree with you on that. Unfortunately, I lack the skills to adapt my simple Sigil plugin for Calibre. Maybe you could ask about it in the Calibre plugin ideas thread?
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Old 09-17-2018, 07:55 AM   #9
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Maybe you could ask about it in the Calibre plugin ideas thread?
Yes, I will do it.
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Old 09-17-2018, 09:31 AM   #10
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My earlier post was based on Word 2016 from Office 2016 for Home and Business.

I went away and read up on the Editor Pane, it looked interesting. So I had a chat session with MS Support. The pricing is not as bad as I remembered ($200+pa), for Personal it's only AU$10 monthly for 1 desktop, 1 phone, and 1 tablet, which is the same as my weekly gym-fees! And I get to keep my Office H&B - I could put that on my Dell Alien Alpha Xbox box :lol:

So I have it on a 1 month trial, I'll be responding based on my limited usage of it. The install was painless, download and run a little exe, which does a bit more downloading, a few minutes over DSL, then a similarly few minutes to install. No more than 10 minutes go-to-whoa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex2002ans View Post
When you mess with any of these Spelling/Grammar settings, doesn't Word completely "Recheck the document" from scratch?
I don't think so, my experience is I have to tap that big Recheck Document to get it to even think about doing it, but sometimes it doesn't work, and I have to stop/start Word.

I don't change the options under the Settings button. What I do is uncheck/check Check grammar with spelling, and when its checked I select the Writing Style check I want - Grammar or Grammar & Refinements

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Originally Posted by Tex2002ans View Post
Let's say you reached the halfway point, you've been Ignoring on a case-by-case basis. You run into a common "error" clogging up your workflow, so you go into the "Proofing Options" and change a single setting. Every... dang... change... you just Ignored gets reset.
For spelling I don't do many Ignore Once's. I correct, Ignore all if I want to subsequently review in context as previously described. or I Add the word to the custom dictionary, which I also use perversely

If a misspelt word is peculiar to a document, e.g. a place name, persons name etc, I add it to the custom dictionary.

When I finish a document I replace RoamingCustom.dic with a 'starter' version of it, which gets rid of the document specific "Added" words.

It's the nearest I can get to having a document specific custom dictionary. I can't recall which WP program I used that had them - WordPerfect, Multimate, Gypsy, who knows ? From time to time I consider saving the end of checking RoamingCustom.dic file to the calibre book where I have the DOCX, but I never do.

So, when I hit Recheck Document I don't get many misspellings that I have to Ignore Once again.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex2002ans View Post
Side Note: This categorization is also a frustrating point in Word's grammarcheck.

When you get a suggestion, you have no idea WHAT rule/category this "error" actually hit, because it doesn't tell you. Look at the screenshot I gave in Post #1 for Word:
This seems to 'fixed' in Office 356 Word, the Editor Box has this:

Click image for larger version

Name:	1.JPG
Views:	38
Size:	16.6 KB
ID:	166354


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex2002ans View Post
lol, with book-sized documents, I usually get the "There are too many results to show here".
I don't think I get that as much as I used to, maybe because I went from 6GB to 16GB of RAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex2002ans View Post
Are these default shortcuts? I tried them on my end and they didn't work.

My Ctrl+Home jumped me near the beginning of the document. And the Alt+Numpad+ inserted an equation.
Probably not - I do a lot of keyboard shortcut customisations in most programs, trying to make them consistent, coherent etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex2002ans View Post
Side Note: I also went into File > Options > Customize Ribbon > Keyboard Shortcuts: Customize... (ugh, what a way to bury shortcuts). And I couldn't easily find a "Find Next Misspelled Word". According to a quick search online it may be Alt+F7... where it's buried in the menus though, no idea.
I probably don't have a problem with it because I spent a lot of time sorting it out when the Ribbons first appeared. IIRC back in the days of evil menus and loathsome button bars, kb shortcuts were no easier to set, and arguably worse. Now at least just about everything can be given a kb short, which I'm not sure has always been the case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex2002ans View Post
Why oh why couldn't it be more like Sigil/Calibre's Shortcut pages? Full search + you could easily see what's assigned to what.
I assume you're referring to the calibre editor. The library manager has the ability to give everything under the sun a shortcut, but there was no way to see a list of them that you can sort like Sigil's list. I had to sweet talk DaltonST into adding a blade to his JobSpy toolbag to do it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex2002ans View Post
Side Note: And Grammarly is horrendous. You can see how the one-by-one annoyed The Digital Reader in his review: https://the-digital-reader.com/2017/...ing-grammarly/
I looked at Grammerly once - for all of five minutes

Question - anyone have any idea why the context menu for a spelling error has an Ignore All option, but not an Ignore Once option. IIRC it's been ever thus.

BR

PS; Office 365 Word has an option to opt-out of so-called Intelligent Services. I don't know if or how it works or not. Maybe if you opt out they broadcast a message to the Intelligence Services.

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Old 09-17-2018, 01:48 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Doitsu View Post
I'm afraid that's beyond my limited Python skills.
Well put the idea in your back pocket. :P

I also wanted to get these thoughts out there, and see what others thought on this Spelling/Grammar situation.

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Originally Posted by BetterRed View Post
I went away and read up on the Editor Pane, it looked interesting.
Not much even shows up in a search. I found it buried in a single line in one of the changelogs.

Sometimes they call it an "Editor Pane", other times an "Editor Overview Pane" or "Editor" (this last one isn't helpful AT ALL for search!):

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...5ecf039?auth=1

https://support.office.com/en-us/art...rs=en-US&ad=US

And even a lot of their official posts are inconsistent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetterRed View Post
PS; Office 365 Word has an option to opt-out of so-called Intelligent Services. I don't know if or how it works or not. Maybe if you opt out they broadcast a message to the Intelligence Services.
And the new Editor Pane won't work if you disable "Intelligent Services" (from the 2nd link above):

Quote:
Not seeing Editor?

Requirements and availability of Editor include the following:

Internet connection: Make sure your connection is working.

Intelligent Services switched on: Go to File > Options > General and turn on Office Intelligence Service.
If you enable that, you also agree to share your info with them:

https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetterRed View Post
So I have it on a 1 month trial, I'll be responding based on my limited usage of it.
Nice, let us know how it works. The information about it is pretty sparse online:

There are only ~9500 hits for "Editor Pane" + "Microsoft Word", most of it was articles parroting off the same talking points from Microsoft's blog. No real info, just the same copied/pasted paragraphs.

And even Microsoft's blog barely has any info on it. And the handful of pages I found discussing the Editor Pane were all over the place (there was even a post+video from February announcing it and showing off its functionality... and the video is down!)

Youtube barely has any hits.

I doubt there's any in-depth review of this thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetterRed View Post
I don't change the options under the Settings button. What I do is uncheck/check Check grammar with spelling, and when its checked I select the Writing Style check I want - Grammar or Grammar & Refinements
Hmmm, okay. I'll have to fiddle around with it again. I usually just keep it on just Grammar (it already had enough false positive issues!).

And I remember last time I messed around with it, it reset the document (perhaps my memory is wrong).

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetterRed View Post
For spelling I don't do many Ignore Once's. I correct, Ignore all if I want to subsequently review in context as previously described.
I use Ignore quite often.

The books I work on have a lot of French/German/Greek words interspersed throughout (or potentially odd stuff like book/article titles). And while it might be valid in case A, it may not be valid in case B.

Also ye olde time spelling, might be valid in a quotation, but wrong in the text itself.

Or same with English US/UK spellings. Might be valid in a quote, but not outside.

You have to be very careful with these things! :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetterRed View Post
This seems to 'fixed' in Office 356 Word, the Editor Box has this:

Attachment 166354
Indeed. Seeing that little line in there just perfectly amplified the anger I have with the current Word grammarcheck system. :P

And their handful of categories are much too broad (it should break down like LanguageTool's rule > specific check hierarchy). Because sometimes just a single rule causes false positives to go through the roof.

Do you still have to Ignore Ignore one at a time? Or can you Ignore the entire rule from there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetterRed View Post
I don't think I get that as much as I used to, maybe because I went from 6GB to 16GB of RAM
Get it all the time. Probably has something to do with RAM usage, but I have 16GB as well. Probably just the sheer size of books I work on. :P

The worst is when you are partway through correction a giant book, and then you get the popup and all the squigglies disappear. Even if you then delete the second half of the book, ain't no way you get your squigglies back!

(One of the reasons why I prefer a tool that just runs on the entire document and lists all the errors... like LanguageTool.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetterRed View Post
I probably don't have a problem with it because I spent a lot of time sorting it out when the Ribbons first appeared. IIRC back in the days of evil menus and loathsome button bars, kb shortcuts were no easier to set, and arguably worse. Now at least just about everything can be given a kb short, which I'm not sure has always been the case.
LibreOffice's isn't as nice as Sigil's, but it also has a Search. Their keyboard shortcuts are found in Tools > Customize > Keyboard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetterRed View Post
I looked at Grammerly once - for all of five minutes
On this hunt for alternate tools... it was so frustrating.

All the "Top 5 list of Grammar Checkers" or "Top 10 Grammar Tools" or "List of Grammar Checker" articles. 99.9% of them pointed to things which redirected right to Grammarly (or now used Grammarly in the backend). (And rarely do these sites even mention LanguageTool.)

You pasted in your sample text? Redirects to Grammarly.
Try this other site? "Why don't you log in using Facebook" and sends you to Grammarly!
Wow, a top 20 list, there MUST be something in there that works. Grammarly!

I can give them one thing, their damn marketing drowns out any sort of meaningful competition.

A few days ago I did run across a reference to a whitepaper (believe it was based on a PhD where someone designed more accurate grammar recommendations). It was one of the few online tools that actually still existed and wasn't overrun by them! Sadly, it was mostly an API, and the online portion was extremely limited.

Last edited by Tex2002ans; 09-17-2018 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 09-17-2018, 09:47 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Tex2002ans View Post
Sometimes they call it an "Editor Pane", other times an "Editor Overview Pane" or "Editor" (this last one isn't helpful AT ALL for search!):

And even a lot of their official posts are inconsistent.
This is what whetted my appetite ==>> https://www.zdnet.com/article/micros...better-writer/



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Originally Posted by Tex2002ans View Post
And the new Editor Pane won't work if you disable "Intelligent Services" . . .

If you enable that, you also agree to share your info with . . .
Not sure if that's entirely true.

I also have a suspicion that it gets re-enabled if you have Mark grammar errors as you type and/or Check grammar with spelling checked, without so much as a 'by your leave sir/madam'. More testing needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex2002ans View Post
Nice, let us know how it works. The information about it is pretty sparse online:

There are only ~9500 hits for "Editor Pane" + "Microsoft Word", most of it was articles parroting off the same talking points from Microsoft's blog. No real info, just the same copied/pasted paragraphs.

I doubt there's any in-depth review of this thing.
Yeah I know, and most of items are quite old - if you limit search to Past Year you get sweet bugger all... nearly.

Those who have the knowledge to do an impartial review don't write for the hoi-polloi, and those that have the knowledge don't write reviews for software. Most internet hacks would scratch their heads wondering what giving birth or designing transport corridors has to do with writing, and couldn't differentiate a past participle from their grannies left gumboot

Whoops, hit Submit when I wanted Preview - to be continued

BR

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Old 09-18-2018, 12:48 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by BetterRed View Post
<snip>

Whoops, hit Submit when I wanted Preview - to be continued. . .
And here it is, one walk, one shopping trip and a lunch later.


Several of the MS and coffee&pasta posts had this



I cant find it. Some of the posts that have it, refer to Insider versions, so perhaps it didn't make it into the final cut. If anyone has it, can they tell me where they found it.

And, back to the issue of keyboard shortcuts. You don't really need them in Office 2007-16 because everything in the ribbon tabs can be accessed with single finger keystrokes. Providing the first one pressed is the Alt key, the Ribbon will get a bunch of indicators showing what key(s) map to what. FX:- for me ePubTools is Y3; and within that; Dialogue check is Y1.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex2002ans View Post
I use Ignore quite often.

The books I work on have a lot of French/German/Greek words interspersed throughout (or potentially odd stuff like book/article titles). And while it might be valid in case A, it may not be valid in case B.

Also ye olde time spelling, might be valid in a quotation, but wrong in the text itself.

Or same with English US/UK spellings. Might be valid in a quote, but not outside.

You have to be very careful with these things! :P
For non-English text I set the language to French, Italian, etc, and check the Do not check spelling or grammar option. Frequently occurring foreign words, usually get globally replaced with the required language, and Do not check... set.

I make multiple passes focusing on different issues, rather than doing everything within a single pass. Spelling is the first pass, if I see a punctuation, grammar or style error I fix it there and then - according to my rules.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex2002ans View Post
Indeed. Seeing that little line in there just perfectly amplified the anger I have with the current Word grammarcheck system. :P

And their handful of categories are much too broad (it should break down like LanguageTool's rule > specific check hierarchy). Because sometimes just a single rule causes false positives to go through the roof.

Do you still have to Ignore Ignore one at a time? Or can you Ignore the entire rule from there?
Nope. Yep.

Click image for larger version

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As you can almost see there are more 'Grammar' checks, sadly the dialogue box is fixed size BTW: any idea what the issue with the word 'Lack' might be, like how does it get misused - confused with Lakh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex2002ans View Post
(One of the reasons why I prefer a tool that just runs on the entire document and lists all the errors... like LanguageTool.)

LibreOffice's isn't as nice as Sigil's, but it also has a Search. Their keyboard shortcuts are found in Tools > Customize > Keyboard.
I wish the LT Add-On for Word was as functional as the one in Libre Writer. I gave up on it because it crashed/wedged a lot. Maybe its been updated - I should take a look. When I use Libre Writer I feel I've gone back to the 1990s.

Sigil's KB shortcut feature would be perfect if it showed the default and the customised settings, and I didn't sometimes lose my custom settings when I install a new version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex2002ans View Post
A few days ago I did run across a reference to a whitepaper (believe it was based on a PhD where someone designed more accurate grammar recommendations). It was one of the few online tools that actually still existed and wasn't overrun by them! Sadly, it was mostly an API, and the online portion was extremely limited.
It'll take me a while to get my head around what the Editor feature of Word offers grammar-wise. Its UI is an improvement and I like the fact it has a way to access its settings from within itself -- there should be more of that in all software.

somewhat,

Like many people I wasn't enamoured with the flat plastic look of Win 10's Settings App. The other day I downloaded a flat plastic File Manager App, it was very rudimentary so I've not kept it.

However in playing with it, I discovered I could intuitively navigate my way around its UI with just the Tab and arrow keys, remember I don't like pointy things like mice and trackpads. No more accelerator keys, e.g. Alt+G for Grouping and Alt+G for Algorithm. I've since discovered that the various flat plastic Apps (I hate that word) MS ships are similar. So perhaps the flat plastic is not as bad as I first thought.

BR

Last edited by BetterRed; 09-18-2018 at 12:56 AM.
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Old 09-18-2018, 03:22 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by BetterRed View Post
Not sure if that's entirely true.

I also have a suspicion that it gets re-enabled if you have Mark grammar errors as you type and/or Check grammar with spelling checked, without so much as a 'by your leave sir/madam'. More testing needed.
Well let me know. Their documentation is clashing. Some people complained that if you disabled "Intelligent Services", you just fell back to the old "Spelling & Grammar" dialog.

And they also tied that Editor into Bing (Definitions + Translation probably pulls definitions from there too). So they probably want to get all your approval before sending all your info to Microsoft-middlemen.

No Bing? No spying? No new Editor Pane for you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetterRed View Post
Several of the MS and coffee&pasta posts had this



I cant find it. Some of the posts that have it, refer to Insider versions, so perhaps it didn't make it into the final cut. If anyone has it, can they tell me where they found it.
From what I gathered, that would've been the first thing popping up if you pressed F7. You would then be able to choose which category you wanted to focus on (sort of the crux of this thread).

It even shows it in this thread (people complaining about Readability Statistics being broken for a few months):

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...1-b8a70b682eee

in an image from September 6.

Did you do a fresh install, or did it carry over a lot of your previous settings?

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Originally Posted by BetterRed View Post
Providing the first one pressed is the Alt key, the Ribbon will get a bunch of indicators showing what key(s) map to what.
Speaking of usability, why can't the mouse scroll work when hovering over menu items that have multiple rows:

Click image for larger version

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If you click your cursor onto some text, the Style which matches gets a little border around it (in the above image, you can see it around "Normal").

If the Style doesn't exist in that first row though...

You hover your mouse over the Style box. Mouse scroll changes tabs left/right (Home <-> Insert <-> Layout) instead of styles scrolling up/down. Instead, you have to press the little itty buttons on the right edge... to clunkily scroll through styles a handful at a time. So dumb!

(Yes, I also know you could pop out the entire Styles Pane [pressing the little itty bitty arrow in the bottom right of my image].)

Side Note: Lately, I've also been a proponent of Select > Select All Text With Similar Formatting:

Click image for larger version

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This is super helpful when trying to clean up garbage Styles (either copied/pasted from the Internet, or junk from conversions). (Note: It does bring your computer to a crawl if you use it on enormous documents. Word probably doesn't like thousands of discrete highlighted pieces of text. :P)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetterRed View Post
I make multiple passes focusing on different issues, rather than doing everything within a single pass. Spelling is the first pass, if I see a punctuation, grammar or style error I fix it there and then - according to my rules.
Passes are the most efficient way!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetterRed View Post
As you can almost see there are more 'Grammar' checks, sadly the dialogue box is fixed size BTW: any idea what the issue with the word 'Lack' might be, like how does it get misused - confused with Lakh?
Nice, that looks marginally better. The one in Word 2010/2016 is quite lakhing. :P

Side Note: Probably all the different meanings/forms smashed into a single word. In a quick search, I found this link:

http://elss.elc.cityu.edu.hk/ELSS/Re...ords%20(Lack)/

Quote:
Many Hong Kong students use 'lack' and 'lack of' wrongly. This exercise is to show the difference and to help you understand which one to use in which situation.

Introduction:
'Lack' is both a verb and a noun. For example, using 'lack' as a verb you can say 'Someone lacks something.', and as a noun 'There is a lack of something.'
It has a lot of sample sentences that might cause confusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetterRed View Post
I wish the LT Add-On for Word was as functional as the one in Libre Writer. I gave up on it because it crashed/wedged a lot. Maybe its been updated - I should take a look. When I use Libre Writer I feel I've gone back to the 1990s.
I mostly just don't use any Word Processors (I use Notepad++ or any other basic editors).

If I do, I lean on LibreOffice (due to being free + working on all OSes). I'm actually one that much prefers the "Word 2003" look, and am not the largest fan of the Ribbon.

(One of the things I like is that little Search box right above the ribbon though, where you can search for specific settings/buttons. That's helpful when you rarely do a task, and have no idea where it is buried in the buttons/menus.)

And if I ever had to generate printable documents, I would just stick with LaTeX. You can pry that beautiful typography from my cold, dead, impeccably typeset hands. :P

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Originally Posted by BetterRed View Post
Sigil's KB shortcut feature would be perfect if it showed the default and the customised settings, and I didn't sometimes lose my custom settings when I install a new version.
Or maybe it could do something like Firefox's about:preferences. If it's different from default, it would bold the line.

And maybe not just a "Reset All" button, but a "Reset" button could be added.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetterRed View Post
I've since discovered that the various flat plastic Apps (I hate that word) MS ships are similar. So perhaps the flat plastic is not as bad as I first thought.
Barf!

The thing that frustrates me is each version, they keep trying to shove more and more of these "flat" versions of Settings down your throat, but they don't even have the full functionality of the old ones! (Network settings is the perfect example. It's absolute garbage. You can't change anything meaningful within it. Only "Copy" info.)

Last edited by Tex2002ans; 09-18-2018 at 03:38 AM.
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Old 09-18-2018, 06:56 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Tex2002ans View Post
Well let me know. Their documentation is clashing. Some people complained that if you disabled "Intelligent Services", you just fell back to the old "Spelling & Grammar" dialog.
Yes... well... sometimes... maybe... er... wtf!

At one stage when I had IntelliServ disabled I got the really old (2007) spelling and grammar popup dialogue. The one where you could edit the fragment of text that was displayed in the 'error' popup - IMO that was the best one.

But most of the time I'm getting the Editor Pane even though IntelliServ is unchecked. But here's the rub - sometimes when I go to Options->General IntelliServ is checked, and I'm positive it wasn't checked by me! My guess it that gets enabled behind the arras if there's a network connection, but it takes a while for the UI to wake up to that bit of jiggery-pokery, so it shows unchecked. This could be something specific to it being a Trial install, i.e. they want you to play with goodies so that you'll fall in love with them and shell out your money. I'll pull the plug on the network and see what happens

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex2002ans View Post
From what I gathered, that would've been the first thing popping up if you pressed F7. You would then be able to choose which category you wanted to focus on (sort of the crux of this thread).

It even shows it in this thread (people complaining about Readability Statistics being broken for a few months):

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...1-b8a70b682eee

in an image from September 6.
I presume you mean the Jay Freedman post, that screen shot is from the Office Insider Monthly Channel (Targeted) build, Version 1808 build 10730.20088. build - he predicts it'll be in the next Final Cut :lol:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex2002ans View Post
Did you do a fresh install, or did it carry over a lot of your previous settings?
Over the top, I wasn't offered a choice. Basically it's a great big wrapper around regular Office 2016, which I already had. That's why it didn't download much. Its a Trial, so they're going to make it easy.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex2002ans View Post
Speaking of usability, why can't the mouse scroll work when hovering over menu items that have multiple rows:

Attachment 166367

If you click your cursor onto some text, the Style which matches gets a little border around it (in the above image, you can see it around "Normal").

If the Style doesn't exist in that first row though...

You hover your mouse over the Style box. Mouse scroll changes tabs left/right (Home <-> Insert <-> Layout) instead of styles scrolling up/down. Instead, you have to press the little itty buttons on the right edge... to clunkily scroll through styles a handful at a time. So dumb!

(Yes, I also know you could pop out the entire Styles Pane [pressing the little itty bitty arrow in the bottom right of my image].)
What would I know about mouse operations

If I wanted to see which style is in use, I would use the context menu, viz:

Click image for larger version

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex2002ans View Post
Side Note: Lately, I've also been a proponent of Select > Select All Text With Similar Formatting:
I recall selecting that option once looking for 18 point helvetica (or similar), the whole document was yellow highlighted and most of it was TNR 12 point. I have a macro that tries to delete unused styles.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex2002ans View Post
Or maybe it [Keyboard Shortcuts] could do something like Firefox's about:preferences. If it's different from default, it would bold the line.

And maybe not just a "Reset All" button, but a "Reset" button could be added.
I want to see the default value so that if I respond to someone's "How do I blah-blah . . ." question I don't give them a bum steer by telling them to use one of my customised kb shorts. Sometimes I forget, that I reassigned them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex2002ans View Post
The thing that frustrates me is each version, they keep trying to shove more and more of these "flat" versions of Settings down your throat, but they don't even have the full functionality of the old ones! (Network settings is the perfect example. It's absolute garbage. You can't change anything meaningful within it. Only "Copy" info.)
If I want to do anything serious with configuring (such as the network), I start at the Control Panel. But some things in Settings are better - Bluetooth, Windows Update (in Pro), Security. It's a W.I.P. - remember WFW3.1 or XP.

BR
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