03-14-2019, 12:07 PM | #16 |
o saeclum infacetum
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03-14-2019, 12:09 PM | #17 | ||
Grand Sorcerer
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Quote:
Quote:
Your examples reflect the rule in American English too. On my side of the pond, commas and periods go inside the quote marks, but other punctuation goes outside if it is not part of the quoted material. |
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03-14-2019, 12:40 PM | #18 |
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Getting back to the original question, the problem of quotes within quotes and the confusion that can result is presumably at least part of the reason that CMS thinks it's fine to drop them for signs.
It's hard to read something with several sets of quotation marks, as here:
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03-14-2019, 06:59 PM | #19 | ||
cacoethes scribendi
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New Hart's Rules (Oxford style), say that "only one mark of terminal punctuation is needed". Review Harry's original example in your quote, and realise the period from the inner quote has been dropped, so dropping either the exclamation or question mark would seem appropriate. I can't find an explicit rule about precedence of terminal punctuation, but I would generally drop the exclamation mark and keep the question mark. Edited to add: I finally got my hands on a copy of The Cambridge Guide to English Usage* and it addresses this issue explicitly (if not any more helpfully than I did): "Double question marks (??), or combinations of exclamation and question marks (!? or ?!), are to be avoided except in informal writing (and in chess). Where they might appear on either side of closing quotation marks (because one belongs to the quote, and the other to the carrier sentence), the sentence should be rearranged to avoid it." * You can never have too many style guides: it makes me feel better to see diverse experts all taking subtly different positions on what is correct, and when you need some excuse to procrastinate you can start trying to work out whether you should be typing "installment" or "instalment", with the help of a dozen different authoritative references. (The Cambridge guide has quite an interesting discussion - noting that the original Oxford Dictionary set them as equal alternatives, and suggests the modern adoption of "instalment" in the UK might have come about because the US adopted "installment". All this I learned while I could have been wasting time working! ) Last edited by gmw; 03-14-2019 at 10:24 PM. |
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03-14-2019, 10:46 PM | #20 |
cacoethes scribendi
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The Cambridge Guide to English Usage is arranged a bit differently to other guides, so it took me a while to work out that the book does not appear to give explicit advice on the subject of short signs. However, the book does have some text that implicitly gives away the Cambridge University Press style:
"in the conventional sign NO ADMITTANCE." "An official NO ENTRY sign makes access by" "as when the sign says PROCEED WITH CAUTION rather than DRIVE CAREFULLY." |
03-15-2019, 05:29 AM | #21 |
Whatever...
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03-15-2019, 10:24 AM | #22 | |
Nameless Being
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As usual, being a bit of an Anglophile, I tend to prefer the anglicized way of handling most things pertaining to the Mother Tongue. But I have to draw the line at things like "colour" and "realise." You will not be able to pry the American spellings of such words out of my cold dead fingers. |
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03-15-2019, 11:13 AM | #23 | ||
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Full caps are awful; you sometimes see small caps used for signs in running text, or in display text. Just from a commonsense standpoint, the more you use typography or punctuation to make the sign stand out, the more important it seems--and generally, a sign doesn't deserve that level of importance; initial caps are enough. FYI, here's the rule from Chicago, 16th edition (there's a 17th edition that I don't have, but treatment of signs is not included in the list of changes): Quote:
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03-15-2019, 08:02 PM | #24 |
cacoethes scribendi
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Thanks Catlady. That seems like a sensible style, and appears to leave the writer with some flexibility (writer gets to chose what is "longer"). For example I'd probably quote "Thank You for Not Smoking." As soon as you get uncapitalised words it becomes visually unclear whether it's one sign or two.
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04-28-2019, 05:08 PM | #25 |
eReader
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For signs, I follow the various style guides, but for notes I handle it this way.
If it's short enough to be inline with the text it's in quotations, and if it's long enough to be set off as its own paragraph I put it in italics. As with anything, the key is clarity. As long as everyone understands what you're doing, you're good. |
06-16-2019, 02:56 PM | #26 |
the rook, bossing Never.
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1. Style guides.
2. Logic 3. Whatever you decide, do it 100% consistently. Anything typographical is possible on paper. Ebooks are more limited, however the very oldest ebook readers I've tested can do serif, sans and monospace (like Courier). Each of those in regular, italic, bold and bold italic. Also different relative sizes. Docx import to Calibre seems to be the easiest to use tool and embed the base/body font. 1) Dialogue quoting another speaker is straightforward. The issue for deciding your own rules seem to be: 2) Thoughts. Some use quotes, some italics and some leave plain. 3) An inserted text (Sign, TV Caption, computer screen, email, telegram, letter). If it's being read out by a character, then it's (1). Otherwise you can use Title caps on a Sign, All Caps on a Telegram, or use monospace, or use sans if body text is serif (or vice versa). It has to not confuse the reader and be consistent. 4) Telepathy or imagined telepathy (common in Fantasy but can be in other genres). Italic without quotes is common. In such a case (2) is often done plain and clear from context (I thought, or Narration; Geena thought) A consideration is how would it be obvious in an Audio Book? Simplicity, clarity, logic and 100% consistent. Beta readers should help. Don't hint in advance. |
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