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Old 02-27-2018, 04:44 PM   #106
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Remember how I've been screaming for 5 years that streaming books are coming? Look at Kindle Unlimited, Scribd, the Kobo service, several competing services in the Netherlands for Dutch books... and many of them only work on phones and tablets, with proprietary format, for which you need to pay month after month to keep reading.
But of course, even with digital streaming of movies and music already being well established, you can still buy movies and music. I don't know why books would be any different.

Unbreakable DRM... nothing remains unbreakable.
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Old 02-27-2018, 06:18 PM   #107
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More here on The Conversation.

I particularly enjoyed the passing reference to one commenter apparently saying that they "were not interested in enhanced features or "gamified dancing baloney"" (my emphasis). I couldn't agree more.
That article doesn't even mention reflow, font size, line spacing and column width adjustments, nor the ability to have a large number of books in a single package that is usually smaller and lighter than a single book.
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Old 02-27-2018, 08:32 PM   #108
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More here on The Conversation.

I particularly enjoyed the passing reference to one commenter apparently saying that they "were not interested in enhanced features or "gamified dancing baloney"" (my emphasis). I couldn't agree more.
Thanks for the link. +1 on the enhanced features rubbish. These "enhanced" ebooks are what Nourry would regard as "smart", which is of course what he meant when referring to current ebooks as "stupid". It is like calling a non-smartphone a stupid phone. But it is hardly better than the wider meaning many have taken from it. It's almost as if he is mystified why anyone would buy an ebook which is just an electronic embodiment of the paper book, without multimedia enhancement. Why is there even room for such a product? And how can it have had such a disruptive effect on the cozy, settled business model? He shows a remarkable blindness to the many very real advantages that these "stupid" ebooks have for readers, which have been pointed out endlessly since the interview. Today's "stupid" ebooks are what I believe most readers want. There may be a market niche for enhanced ebooks with interactive and multimedia features. Many seem to be trying this at the moment, some quiet, some with excessive hype about the new revolutionary way to read. But to me they are indeed closer to games and movies than books. If I was tempted to buy one it would not be as a book, but as either a new hybrid media or perhaps a game, and I would enjoy it as such. Though likely I would pass in favour of a book in any event.

I suspect Nourry and perhaps other Big 5 executives are somewhat mystified at the success of these "stupid" ebooks, having expected any challenge to come only from enhanced "smart" ebooks. At last years Frankfurt book fair Caroline Reidy, CEO of S&S, said:

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I do think there will be a new version of the book based on digital delivery that people have not thought of yet,” she said. “There is some person who is young and has grown up with the screen who will come up with a new form. I don’t think we have found it, but when we do, that will be an exciting day.
But of course had "stupid" ebooks not existed but only "smart" ones, it would have been far less a threat. Since most readers probably don't want those "smart" books, such readers would have stuck to paper. And self-publishing would never have taken off, since the barriers to producing enhanced ebooks are far more prohibitive. Little wonder the Big 5 were so surprised and ill-prepared to deal with the reality.
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Old 02-27-2018, 09:18 PM   #109
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http://authorearnings.com/

Per their Jan 2018 report the ebook is far from dead. Outselling the printed books in most areas of fiction considerably. The big dollars in printed books is in school books and children's books along with recipe books from what I can see. An interesting article.
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Old 02-28-2018, 06:29 PM   #110
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Thanks for the link. +1 on the enhanced features rubbish. These "enhanced" ebooks are what Nourry would regard as "smart", which is of course what he meant when referring to current ebooks as "stupid". It is like calling a non-smartphone a stupid phone. But it is hardly better than the wider meaning many have taken from it. It's almost as if he is mystified why anyone would buy an ebook which is just an electronic embodiment of the paper book, without multimedia enhancement. Why is there even room for such a product? And how can it have had such a disruptive effect on the cozy, settled business model? He shows a remarkable blindness to the many very real advantages that these "stupid" ebooks have for readers, which have been pointed out endlessly since the interview. Today's "stupid" ebooks are what I believe most readers want. There may be a market niche for enhanced ebooks with interactive and multimedia features. Many seem to be trying this at the moment, some quiet, some with excessive hype about the new revolutionary way to read. But to me they are indeed closer to games and movies than books. If I was tempted to buy one it would not be as a book, but as either a new hybrid media or perhaps a game, and I would enjoy it as such. Though likely I would pass in favour of a book in any event.

I suspect Nourry and perhaps other Big 5 executives are somewhat mystified at the success of these "stupid" ebooks, having expected any challenge to come only from enhanced "smart" ebooks. At last years Frankfurt book fair Caroline Reidy, CEO of S&S, said:



But of course had "stupid" ebooks not existed but only "smart" ones, it would have been far less a threat. Since most readers probably don't want those "smart" books, such readers would have stuck to paper. And self-publishing would never have taken off, since the barriers to producing enhanced ebooks are far more prohibitive. Little wonder the Big 5 were so surprised and ill-prepared to deal with the reality.
I've tried a couple of "enhanced" books (the first Harry Potter and the first Game of Thrones books). They were ok as a novelty, but the moving gifs really didn't do a lot to enhance the experience. Mostly, I suspect they are an attempt to lock you into an infrastructure or perhaps just a way to attract attention and get you to try their infrastructure.

I suspect that most CEO types tend to think in bottom line terms rather than anything else. Once you get above a certain layer in any company, it's all just widgets to them.
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Old 02-28-2018, 06:36 PM   #111
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Of course there isn't a right or wrong.

...

I'll see how it pans out, but if it turns out that, in another 5-10 years I can only read e-books through a subscription or buy them with unbreakable DRM, I won't ever buy an e-book again. (I possibly won't buy a book ever again in my entire life, paper or digital.)

Remember how I've been screaming for 5 years that streaming books are coming? Look at Kindle Unlimited, Scribd, the Kobo service, several competing services in the Netherlands for Dutch books... and many of them only work on phones and tablets, with proprietary format, for which you need to pay month after month to keep reading. I don't do this with music or games so I won't with books. The only exception would be movies, because they can be consumed in such a short time span (generally 1.5-2 hours), so I can watch a lot of them for the money. I don't read 10 books a month, but I can see 10 or even 20 movies a month.
I've seen a number of attempts at streaming magazines. None of them really took off. Proprietary systems just don't seem to work well. Zinio seems to be the most popular Proprietary system, and really it appears to be just some form of encrypted PDF, as far as I can tell.

Music seems to make subscription and buy work side by side. I don't think it's an either or situation. Some people like to own, other don't really care.
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Old 03-01-2018, 11:47 AM   #112
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I've seen a number of attempts at streaming magazines. None of them really took off. Proprietary systems just don't seem to work well. Zinio seems to be the most popular Proprietary system, and really it appears to be just some form of encrypted PDF, as far as I can .
There's one called Texture that seems to be giving it the old college try. I was tempted to try it out, but I realized I don't much care about magazines at the best of times.
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Old 03-01-2018, 01:31 PM   #113
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I've tried a couple of "enhanced" books (the first Harry Potter and the first Game of Thrones books). They were ok as a novelty, but the moving gifs really didn't do a lot to enhance the experience. Mostly, I suspect they are an attempt to lock you into an infrastructure or perhaps just a way to attract attention and get you to try their infrastructure.
Call me old-fashioned, but this looks like they are trying to fool non-readers into believing they like to read.

When I read a novel, I don't need pictures to show me what I'm reading about (or, give me a graphic novel, and make the picture an integral part of the medium - that's perfectly fine as well; but "adapting" a novel to a graphic format isn't just about drawing the characters and action). And I certainly don't want moving pictures to distract me from my reading.
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Old 03-01-2018, 01:52 PM   #114
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The interview, which was intended to address the future of digital publishing and specific issues facing the Indian publishing market, was widely misquoted and Nourry’s comments taken out of context.
Funny thing is how so many seem to get the same impression while taking his comments out of context. I mean if there is agreement between two or more people that a third party is saying x then either the majority of people are very stupid or they are reaching a logical conclusion about what that party is talking about. I'm inclined to go with the latter explanation myself.
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Old 03-02-2018, 03:18 AM   #115
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Funny thing is how so many seem to get the same impression while taking his comments out of context. I mean if there is agreement between two or more people that a third party is saying x then either the majority of people are very stupid or they are reaching a logical conclusion about what that party is talking about. I'm inclined to go with the latter explanation myself.
As I said back in post #108, I really don't think there is any real difference in substance between what his comments meant in context and what people have taken him to mean. Whether he meant stupid ebooks as opposed to enhanced ebooks, as in smart phones as opposed to stupid phones, or whether he actually meant ebooks are a stupid product as in they offer nothing over print books really doesn't matter. I think he really doesn't understand why so many have abandoned print books for unenhanced ebooks, which he perceives as offering nothing worthwhile over print books. One might even extrapolate his thinking as extending to stupid ebooks are bought by stupid people. The more I think about some of the comments by Big 5 CEO's, particularly him and Caroline Reidy, the more I think the Big 5 were really blindsided with the sudden success of the ebook, as they had indeed thought it a "stupid" product inferior or at least offering nothing over print books. That they genuinely thought real competition with print books would come only with enhanced ebooks, which they were no doubt better prepared to deal with.

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Old 03-02-2018, 10:17 AM   #116
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...I think the Big 5 were really blindsided with the sudden success of the ebook... they genuinely thought real competition with print books would come only with enhanced ebooks, which they were no doubt better prepared to deal with.
If you think they were prepared to deal with e-books, enhanced or no, I think you are giving them too much credit.
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Old 03-02-2018, 07:41 PM   #117
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He's obviously never used a recent ereader. My Paperwhite, purchased back in 2013, can look up words in dictionaries and do many other "smart" things (even more if I used wifi).

One function I frequently use is: if a character was introduced at the beginning of the novel, dropped, then turns up again, I find myself thinking "who is this, I know the name, but can't remember who she is?" Then I can tap the name, search in the book and find the first instance (every instance in fact) of the name; I go to the first, find out the basic details then press the backward pointing arrow at the top to go back to the page I was reading.

People who use wifi can get little bios of each character in some books, and many other features such as a list of words which have been looked up in the past.

The quick tap dictionary check enables me to obtain the EXACT meaning of words of which I know the GENERAL meaning, thereby making my vocabulary more precise.

I don't call that stupid. My Sony 505, still going strong, has a great font, but not these 'smart' features.

Who says ereaders are dumb? Not those who use them!

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Old 03-03-2018, 12:52 AM   #118
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One function I frequently use is: if a character was introduced at the beginning of the novel, dropped, then turns up again, I find myself thinking "who is this, I know the name, but can't remember who she is?" Then I can tap the name, search in the book and find the first instance (every instance in fact) of the name; I go to the first, find out the basic details then press the backward pointing arrow at the top to go back to the page I was reading.
,,,

The quick tap dictionary check enables me to obtain the EXACT meaning of words of which I know the GENERAL meaning, thereby making my vocabulary more precise.
Ditto for me on both of these functions.
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Old 03-06-2018, 05:56 AM   #119
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One function I frequently use is: if a character was introduced at the beginning of the novel, dropped, then turns up again, I find myself thinking "who is this, I know the name, but can't remember who she is?" Then I can tap the name, search in the book and find the first instance (every instance in fact) of the name; I go to the first, find out the basic details then press the backward pointing arrow at the top to go back to the page I was reading...

...The quick tap dictionary check enables me to obtain the EXACT meaning of words of which I know the GENERAL meaning, thereby making my vocabulary more precise.
I too frequently look up character names, and search several dictionaries for words' meaning or pronunciation or usage. I also frequently look up quotes from a book from the reference elibrary I've been building up since my first ereader (2011), which is impossible from a paper book.

And to return to a theme from earlier posts (I haven't looked at this thread for a while), it is becoming more and more difficult to buy a paper book again, event recent ones, as the delay between first publishing a book and pulping all those available has shortened drastically. Also, non-fiction books with a limited readership are expensive and have very limited runs, so when I was aware of one I wanted I bought it immediately even if I knew I wouldn't be able to read it in the near future. That applies to e-books nowadays.

And an e-publisher going belly-up means a book becomes unavailable, even for its author to republish, for years, and this happens frequently enough. This is compounded by the fact that many publishers take on only new books, not reprints - which seems to fit the general public's taste. Luckily some do reprint "modern classics", and some books I'd despaired of finding do find their way back - not all of them though.

I hope it'll end like music. I remember all the prophets of doom when CDs appeared. Over the years most of my vinyls became available, though not all, and the width of choice increased drastically as CDs, then emusic allowed very niche segments to prosper.
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Old 03-06-2018, 07:46 AM   #120
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