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Old 02-09-2019, 03:15 PM   #31
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Given this multi-file format headache for dealing with liberated books that you sideload into the Azon system....

..Do some users who similar to HarryT aren't concerned about the proprietary file formats, just go all the way and use everything in its 'native' Azon DRM'd state, to avoid all the format/conversion/sideload hassles? And then just liberate and keep copies of their purchased DeDRM'd ebooks in Calibre for archive and future-proofing purposes?

I don't plan to do that myself, but I could see that approach could make sense for some people. If you're not concerned about the proprietary lock-in situation, this approach would give you all the Azon functionality in reading, reduce file format hassle and hassle syncing across devices, but still gives you a future-proof library.
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Old 02-09-2019, 03:24 PM   #32
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..Do some users who similar to HarryT aren't concerned about the proprietary file formats, just go all the way and use everything in its 'native' Azon DRM'd state, to avoid all the format/conversion/sideload hassles? And then just liberate and keep copies of their purchased DeDRM'd ebooks in Calibre for archive and future-proofing purposes?
Sounds like a very sensible approach to me. It would seem rather pointless to upload a book as a personal document if you already have it in your Amazon Cloud library.

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Old 02-09-2019, 03:41 PM   #33
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Sounds like a very sensible approach to me. It would seem rather pointless to upload a book as a personal document if you already have it in your Amazon Cloud library.
Unless you want to customize the content of the liberated version, then have it become the true source version of that book you own, and then sideload that back into their system to become the version of the book that you annotate and sync between devices. Where the goal is to leverage the features in their nice cloud services for reading. Admittedly an edge case for most users, but it's something I'd want to do.
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Old 02-09-2019, 03:42 PM   #34
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..Do some users who similar to HarryT aren't concerned about the proprietary file formats, just go all the way and use everything in its 'native' Azon DRM'd state, to avoid all the format/conversion/sideload hassles? And then just liberate and keep copies of their purchased DeDRM'd ebooks in Calibre for archive and future-proofing purposes?

I don't plan to do that myself, but I could see that approach could make sense for some people. If you're not concerned about the proprietary lock-in situation, this approach would give you all the Azon functionality in reading, reduce file format hassle and hassle syncing across devices, but still gives you a future-proof library.
If it's a book already purchased from Amazon, then yes, I always use the DRM'd copy on my Kindle. It's not like you can sync across Kindle Personal Docs and Kobo/Nook/etc anyway. There's no benefit to sideloading those. Might as well take advantage of features offered with the official KF8/KFX version.

I just keep DRM-free backups on Calibre for my other devices and archival.
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Old 02-09-2019, 03:43 PM   #35
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Unless you want to customize the content of the liberated version, then have it become the true source version of that book you own, and then sideload that back into their system to become the version of the book that you annotate and sync between devices. Where the goal is to leverage the features in their nice cloud services for reading. Admittedly an edge case for most users, but it's something I'd want to do.
Yeah, that's too much work. Not something I'm interested in doing at all.
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Old 02-09-2019, 04:31 PM   #36
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Given this multi-file format headache for dealing with liberated books that you sideload into the Azon system....

..Do some users who similar to HarryT aren't concerned about the proprietary file formats, just go all the way and use everything in its 'native' Azon DRM'd state, to avoid all the format/conversion/sideload hassles? And then just liberate and keep copies of their purchased DeDRM'd ebooks in Calibre for archive and future-proofing purposes?

I don't plan to do that myself, but I could see that approach could make sense for some people. If you're not concerned about the proprietary lock-in situation, this approach would give you all the Azon functionality in reading, reduce file format hassle and hassle syncing across devices, but still gives you a future-proof library.
I don't. I want my ebooks formatted in a certain way and edit them all in Calibre before loading them to my Kindles. Even those bought from Amazon. Most just aren't formatted the way I like and it would bother me when reading. Besides, I could not use my custom font sizes with Amazon books in their native format. The FONT_RAMP hack only works with the AZW3 format.
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Old 02-09-2019, 04:33 PM   #37
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Unless you want to customize the content of the liberated version, then have it become the true source version of that book you own, and then sideload that back into their system to become the version of the book that you annotate and sync between devices. Where the goal is to leverage the features in their nice cloud services for reading. Admittedly an edge case for most users, but it's something I'd want to do.
I would certainly do that if I wanted to use the Amazon Cloud, which I'm not interested in using. I use Dropbox for storage.
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Old 02-09-2019, 07:38 PM   #38
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There's no charge to download a personal document over WiFi. There is a charge to download it over 3G.
Depends what you mean by 'download'

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Only if you send it directly to a 3G enabled Kindle. If you have a doc that is stored in the cloud, there is no charge to download it to a 3G enabled Kindle.

Shari
I confirm this.

Downloading an archived/cloud item is free (no Amazon charge) whether done from the 3G Kindle or the Manage your Content and Devices (MYCD) web page.
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Old 02-09-2019, 08:30 PM   #39
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But it means they should stay aligned with the world community and use open file formats, enabling interoperability and driving greater innovation. I am 100% against what they do with their proprietary data formats, even though I love the functionality of their ereaders, and their vast library of ebooks.
It's worth keeping in mind the history of all this. Mobi files were developed years before the epub format. Amazon bought Mobipocket who was one of the very first companies selling ebooks for portable devices. Epub came along later. It's well that it did but by that time Mobi was well established as a popular format.

Even today I think it's a safe bet that the majority of ebooks sold are in Mobi format. Epub is a very good and useful format and I'm very glad it's there but Mobi is surely the mainstream format.

Not that I disagree with you. In a better world ereading devices would be made by hardware manufacturers with more variety so we'll buy the ones we want instead of by book sellers with the intent of selling more books. And half the starlets in Hollywood would be lined up at my door hoping to spend some time with me. But that doesn't seem to be the world we live in.

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Old 02-09-2019, 08:34 PM   #40
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Sounds like a very sensible approach to me. It would seem rather pointless to upload a book as a personal document if you already have it in your Amazon Cloud library.
I do that all the time. I have quite a number of Kindles and that helps me avoid license limits. Most of the time I don't care. I just put the book on 2 Kindles and my phone. But sometimes I swap Kindles a time or two and forget which ones a book is on so I'll upload a converted version and read that. I do like syncing.

For what it's worth I have checked with Kindle support at Amazon to make sure this won't cause me problems. I live in a small town and don't have a car so I depend on Amazon and don't want to put my account at risk. They've assured me that it's not a problem.

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Old 02-09-2019, 09:48 PM   #41
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Custom font is essential for non unicode launguages like hindi. At present most of books and documents available in hindi is non unicoded so if you convert them in kindle format and sent to your kindle over cloud you not get the option of custom font which is irritating. So you can choose one between two custom font or Cloud library.
Kfx format created using plugin have not much option compared to original books from amazon. In my case either orientation missing or allignment missing in kfx format.
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Old 02-09-2019, 09:48 PM   #42
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It's worth keeping in mind the history of all this. Mobi files were developed years before the epub format. Amazon bought Mobipocket who was one of the very first companies selling ebooks for portable devices. Epub came along later.
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I'm aware of that, but Mobi was always proprietary, and logically, being oldest, or being in the majority, doesn't automatically make you better. Much as some of us, including myself, might wish that to be so.

Epub is the only format endorsed by the W3 (https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/ebook/), the web standards body, and the only format that despite all its many imperfections, has any chance of widespread adoption. I'm not interested in rehashing the whole 'epub isn't REALLY a standard' debate, for all practical matter it is, and it's the only solid and truly free and open standard we're going to get in the foreseeable future unless everybody in the industry gets together and comes up with something cleaner. TODAY, it's the only thing out there even resembling a standard, for ebooks.

There are a lot of companies--Amazon among them--that have zero interest in preserving a free and open web, and would be delighted if they could kill it and control it. A significant part of that control is owning the data and the file formats.

Last edited by maximus83; 02-09-2019 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 02-09-2019, 09:57 PM   #43
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What about ePub with DRM ? It kills the purpose of a standard you describe.
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Old 02-09-2019, 10:08 PM   #44
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DRM always does that.
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Old 02-09-2019, 10:25 PM   #45
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What about ePub with DRM ? It kills the purpose of a standard you describe.
Yep. Ideally, you'd be able to buy ebooks the way you buy mp3's. Pay for it, download it, own it, put it on any device you want. However, DRM itself--though I'm against it myself--doesn't change the native file format. It's just an encryption scheme. You could conceivably have everybody using the same epub standard under the hood, with or without DRM.

Last edited by maximus83; 02-09-2019 at 10:28 PM.
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