Man! I hate self promoted books!

[banjobama]

Now that this thread has been completely hijacked (sorry, GlenBarrington), I made a social group for people interested in doing reviews. It's called the MR Book Reviewers' Guild. Interested parties please don't hesitate to join.

P.S. Thanks to Elfwreck for reminding me of the word "dreck." It's priceless!

[J. Strnad]

It's hard to give a five-star review even to a book I liked very much, because if I do, what do I give to a real classic of literature? I'm delighted to receive five-star reviews, but really, Risen ain't no The Grapes of Wrath. Similarly, a three-star review seems like an insult, even if it means "I liked it," and I hate to rate anything that low even though it's basically a thumbs-up. But if, say, John D. MacDonald usually gets four stars (great for the genre, but not Steinbeck), a book that isn't quite that good coming in at three stars is pretty decent.

[GraceKrispy]

I guess I rate based on my level of enjoyment of the book. A 5star review is evidence that I really enjoyed the book and any errors were minor enough so as not to detract. Books that were 4 starred for me usually were books I really liked but couldn't quite get past the bad editing or the writing style. Sometimes a really great ending or thought-provoking storyline will trump a few errors or a wordy writing style.

Sometimes my reviews are really short- one or two-liners. It's usually because I enjoy reading more than writing reviews, and because I don't enjoy reviews that tell me the entire plot. If a book I'm considering has only 5 star reviews, I am more likely to consider it if the reviewers have some reviews that are less than 5 star reviews. If it's all "best book ever!" type stuff, then I'm way less likely to believe, and may skip the book. Or I may check out amazon, as reviews tend to be less false cheering over there.

I don't think I have any 1 star reviews because those are the books I don't finish and delete. My reviews are not going to win me any accolades, but I only write them to let other readers (and the author) know what I thought.


No, the books I rate as 5 stars may not compare to true classics, but rather to my level of enjoyment. First and foremost, I read fiction to enjoy myself. If it opens my mind to new possibilities or makes me think about life, bonus!

[Marioninyc]

Originally Posted by GraceKrispy

I guess I rate based on my level of enjoyment of the book. A 5star review is evidence that I really enjoyed the book and any errors were minor enough so as not to detract. Books that were 4 starred for me usually were books I really liked but couldn't quite get past the bad editing or the writing style. Sometimes a really great ending or thought-provoking storyline will trump a few errors or a wordy writing style.

Sometimes my reviews are really short- one or two-liners. It's usually because I enjoy reading more than writing reviews, and because I don't enjoy reviews that tell me the entire plot. If a book I'm considering has only 5 star reviews, I am more likely to consider it if the reviewers have some reviews that are less than 5 star reviews. If it's all "best book ever!" type stuff, then I'm way less likely to believe, and may skip the book. Or I may check out amazon, as reviews tend to be less false cheering over there.

I don't think I have any 1 star reviews because those are the books I don't finish and delete. My reviews are not going to win me any accolades, but I only write them to let other readers (and the author) know what I thought.


No, the books I rate as 5 stars may not compare to true classics, but rather to my level of enjoyment. First and foremost, I read fiction to enjoy myself. If it opens my mind to new possibilities or makes me think about life, bonus!

As a recipient of one of your rare 5 star reviews, I was very pleased with it!

[MartinParish]

What really, really, REALLY drives me nuts is when people get their friends and family to post 5-star reviews -- or even post their own reviews. I mean, how awful does your book have to be that you would resort to that kind of thing? I mean, really? And it's annoying because it's usually blatantly obvious that the review is a friend/family/author review. I'm starting to suspect a lot of the 5-star reviews I see on Kindle/Amazon self-published books fall into that category, because when you read the book or the sample and find there's no way on EARTH it could POSSIBLY have justified a 5-star review, you have to conclude there's something else going on there.

[denclock]

I think that having this self-published forum is a great idea. I haven't read any self-published books, but figure that statitics would be around 10% off what I consider quality books that I read from corporate published books.
If someone is a good writer and is trying to self-publish, where they get hurt is the actual promotion of the book, as I imagine that the self-publishers don't have a lot of money to sink into promotion. With that being said, most books put out by publishing companies are terrible, and a waste of time. Even people that can write sometimes get into a trap of cranking one book after another (usually being pushed by the publisher so that they can capitalize on profit) and the quality suffers, but these authors' keep selling tons of books, because of the in your face promotions, and skewed reviews (i.e. "This is a book to read if you want to really be dissapointed" being turned into "This is a book to read.").

Also, I think that it is hard to write a book, or at least a good one, I have been trying to write something for years now, and I just get bored with the book, after reading it over and over again, to make sure that I am grammatically correct, and making sense and not contradicting myself or changing concepts I have previously laid out.

And one last note, I think that for a writer to promote their on book by tooting their own horn, is just ridiculous particularly if no one has read it. Maybe one should say in their promotion "I hope that you find this book x, y, and z." instead of, "This book is x, y, and z." Of course, if the book is those things to someone besides the author, and they are willing for the writer to use their thoughts about the book.

[dreams]

Originally Posted by MartinParish

What really, really, REALLY drives me nuts is when people get their friends and family to post 5-star reviews -- or even post their own reviews. I mean, how awful does your book have to be that you would resort to that kind of thing? I mean, really? And it's annoying because it's usually blatantly obvious that the review is a friend/family/author review. I'm starting to suspect a lot of the 5-star reviews I see on Kindle/Amazon self-published books fall into that category, because when you read the book or the sample and find there's no way on EARTH it could POSSIBLY have justified a 5-star review, you have to conclude there's something else going on there.

One word.... Yep! I don't believe most reviews on amazon. I look for the 3 star and below, check the type of critique and scan for other self-published author reviews of the book (I ignore those). I check a reviewer's other reviews, also. --- I don't purchase from amazon. High sales does not always equal great book.

I purchase from smashwords based on recommendations from other readers (usually from MR) that have shown to have the same taste in reading that I have. Even a reviewer that I have noticed showing up on books that I like, will have me checking out other books that were well-liked by that reviewer.

Something new that is driving me crazy... authors that only want to publish on amazon! They think that just because the sales at smashwords is less, that it's not worth it to publish there. -- They are forgetting about the distribution to other stores, through smashwords (Sony, Kobo, Apple, B&N, etc.), the international customer base (with and without kindles) , and those of us who don't own kindles or want to read on a computer.

**Any author that has that mindset (and is bold enough to state it) is one that I don't purchase.**

[kcmay]

For me, here's how it goes:

5 = I loved it so much, I would read it again
4 = I liked/loved it and would recommend it, but one reading is enough
3 = I liked most of it and would probably recommend it to a certain type of reader
2 = it was barely good enough to finish, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone I know
1 = it was bad, I couldn't finish it, and I wish I hadn't wasted my time trying

[kcmay]

Originally Posted by dreams

Something new that is driving me crazy... authors that only want to publish on amazon! They think that just because the sales at smashwords is less, that it's not worth it to publish there. --

Those authors are really missing out. My sales on Smashwords far exceed my sales on Amazon. Go figure!

[Marioninyc]

I'm not sure if friends and family are the issue. Honestly, maybe people have more supportive families than I do! Sometimes people just like stuff that isn't what you would like. As a reader I'm amazed by the popularity of Dan Brown. I think he's an awful writer. I don't think we can equate popularity with quality.

I also don't know that the "techniques" of self-promotion and traditionally publishing promotion are that far apart. A self-published author may turn to family and friends, but so might a published author with the difference being that a published one might have some more prominent ones plus an agent or publicist to help as well.

Either way, as a consumer you have to be your own gatekeeper, not only look at what others are saying but look read a sample. I do think that one pitfall of self-published books is they may be more likely to have some major plotting flaw that might be apparent till the middle or ending, something that an editor might have insisted the writer fix before going to print. On the other hand, I've read a few successful, published novels that I thought could have been trimmed by 100 pages or more (I'm talking to you, Mr. Steig Larsson) and a few where the author seemed to lose track of the plot.

At least most self-published writers are offering their electronic wares for under $3.

[Laine]

I have read quite a few books from Smashwords that I enjoyed and were worth my time. Recently I got one that was really, really badly written. The story concept was O.K. but the author broke lots of rules. However, it was so bad it was fascinating. And I didn't regret the experience.

At least the Smashwords books are cheap. I've spent A$60 or more on hardbacks by well known authors and definately regretted it. There are lots of books by traditional publishing houses that I don't like or haven't enjoyed.

And tastes differ. My husband loves Elizabeth Moon's Paks trilogy. I've tried to read it 3 times and never finished. I love her her scifi and have some books as p, e and audio. He won't touch them.

All anyone can do is sample and decide for themselves. And that's what is great about Smashwords. You can sample at your leisure.

[GraceKrispy]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I will buy/get books on smashwords more readily than any other place. I trust the service, I have found some great stories/authors (and a few junk ones, but eh... didn't cost much, if anyting, to find that out), and it is the only place where I review anything I've read.

That being said, I do now have an ipod touch (free after rebate since I just purchased a mac), and I have enjoyed being able to snag the free kindle books I couldn't before. I prefer reading on my sony more than either of the other devices I have, so smashwords is still my favorite.

[J. Strnad]

<<I do think that there is a real similarity between what began happening several years ago in the way many musicians make and market their music, whether it is because they couldn't get a recording contract, or because they just wanted to have more control over their own careers, and the options opening up for writers and readers.>>

Definitely a similarity. We just got back from a neighbor's house where Swedish country band was playing. They all have day jobs but were making a quick tour in L.A. It was a "free, just drop by" thing though we did end up buying two CDs.

Tonight we'll hear our friend Ernest Troost play at a small coffee shop within bicycling distance. He's a professional composer, won an Emmy for his soundtrack to a Hallmark production of The Canterville Ghost, but he plays folk music as his passion. He isn't with any label, sells his own CDs.

I like major artists, too, but they aren't the only people making pro-quality music.

The parallel with what I'm doing is there. I've made a living as a writer, though I'm semi-retired from that field, and now I'm pimping my first published novel, much as Ernest and the Swedish country band (The Long gone Smiles Band) are doing with their music.

[J. Strnad]

<<I don't believe most reviews on amazon.>>

Me, either. My first four or five reviews (for the paperback of Risen) were from friends. Now there's 49 reviews, so there's a good selection from "real" people. There's a link to them on my website, below. Unfortunately, I can't transfer those to the ebook edition, and I'm not calling on my friends to send in reviews again.

[wgrimm]

Originally Posted by Marioninyc

At least most self-published writers are offering their electronic wares for under $3.

Ummm...that might work if they were PAYING you to read it but I have seen some really awful $3 books out there <G>. The ebook market is young and facing growing pains, much as the world of news reporting on the net is facing.

Publishers serve one important function- filtering the crap out, usually. With self-published eooks, we need some sort of mechanism that does the same. Unfortunately, I have purchased a couple of book by independent authoors on ereader.com that were just awful.

I have delicate sensitivities, and can't read crap or I get an upset stomach <G>. Sad thing is, every "author" thinks their book is just wonderful, whether it rates a 0 or a 10 on the decency scale. Wish I had the answer on how to sort this market out....