Old games vs. old books and music in the digital realm

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by JuliusBorisov

This was the decision made by the rightholder, Wizards of the Coast.

Greg Tito, Communications Director for Dungeons & Dragons, said at that time: "We're proud to recognize their (Beamdog's) excellent work in offering the best possible experience and support for these legendary titles. We want these to become the definitive editions – featuring both the enhanced and classic versions of the games."

https://www.gog.com/news/definitive_...164c1295401b71

Wizards of the Coast hold the rights to the D&D license, not to Baldur's Gate and others. Assuming Beamdog is the owner of the BG/IWD titles, the only thing WotC could have done is to require Beamdog to NOT sell the old games separately when granting the use of the D&D license for the remakes.

Personally, I dislike the new versions. In BG's case, they destroy the experience of being a level 1 character. You get overpowered very quickly. They also destroyed the ingame animations and opening video, introduced tons of bugs (of which I don't know how many are fixed), and they added sub-par, unneeded content.

If you have the old versions, it'll take you about an hour to mod BG1 + BG2 into a single game (BG Trilogy) with all the mods and extra characters and quests you desire. You'll get really close to, and maybe even surpass what the Enhanced editions offer.

[ZodWallop]

Anyone know why they pulled Duke Nukem? I have the game, so it's in my library (I have 97 titles!), but it doesn't appear in the store.

[Katsunami]

Same happened to Severance: Blade of Darkness.

Played a demo in 2002-ish. Liked it. Bought the game last year in a huge sale. Watched some gameplay video's a few weeks ago, and decided that it wasn't as good looking or awesome to play as I remembered. I had the game removed through support

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

Same happened to Severance: Blade of Darkness.

Played a demo in 2002-ish. Liked it. Bought the game last year in a huge sale. Watched some gameplay video's a few weeks ago, and decided that it wasn't as good looking or awesome to play as I remembered. I had the game removed through support

How funny! I have that game on CD. Saw the same sale on GOG. Pondered it. Watched the videos on YouTube and decided that it wasn't as good looking or awesome to play as I remembered! (I just didn't buy the game at all.)

[Red Falcon]

Originally Posted by Catlady

Thanks. I may try this. I'd be happier if Nintendo would simply sell downloads of some of the old games for PC.

That would not help you though. The games you want were not made by Nintendo. They were made by a third party and licensed by Nintendo for sale on the console. Unless the current rights holders allow it these Nintendo can not sell them.

[Freeshadow]

So it's emulator then.

[JuliusBorisov]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

Wizards of the Coast hold the rights to the D&D license, not to Baldur's Gate and others. Assuming Beamdog is the owner of the BG/IWD titles, the only thing WotC could have done is to require Beamdog to NOT sell the old games separately when granting the use of the D&D license for the remakes.

Personally, I dislike the new versions. In BG's case, they destroy the experience of being a level 1 character. You get overpowered very quickly. They also destroyed the ingame animations and opening video, introduced tons of bugs (of which I don't know how many are fixed), and they added sub-par, unneeded content.

If you have the old versions, it'll take you about an hour to mod BG1 + BG2 into a single game (BG Trilogy) with all the mods and extra characters and quests you desire. You'll get really close to, and maybe even surpass what the Enhanced editions offer.

This is a bit off-topic, but I should clarify this, as I often read such statements.

Baldur's Gate is IP and this IP, just as the whole D&D thingy, has its owner.

Intellectual property rights have many forms and there can be an agreement between the interested parties affecting all, several or only one of them. Copyright Law of the United States grants certain rights to the owner of a copyright in a work:

- the right to reproduce the copyrighted work;
- the right to prepare derivative works based upon the work;
- the right to distribute copies of the work to the public;
- the right to perform the copyrighted work publicly;
- the right to display the copyrighted work publicly.

The distribution right grants to the copyright holder the right to make a work available to the public by sale, rental, lease, or lending.

This right allows the copyright holder to prevent the distribution of unauthorized copies of a work.

An ultimate license holder (and owner) of Baldur's Gate is either Hasbro (as shown here - http://gamerant.com/baldurs-gate-3-legal-problems/), or Wizards of the Coast, the subsidiary of Hasbro. The GoG link I gave confirms it was WotC who decided about the ways to distribute original Baldur's Gate games.

So only Hasbro/Wizards of the Coast can decide to whom they grant distribution rights regarding Baldur's Gate.

Beamdog is only a licensee, not a licensor. They cannot decide about distribution rights regarding Baldur's Gate.

[Katsunami]

I don't agree.

Baldur's Gate is its own IP, and it includes/is based on another, namely D&D. I can't do a rewrite of Baldur's Gate, basing it on my very own RPG system and then start selling it. Even if I scrap all D&D characters from it such as Drizzt, Elminster, and references such as Baldur's Gate and Candlekeep, I can't do it because the owner of the BG IP owns its own characters, story lines, and events in the game.

Hasbro/WotC have nothing to do with the IP 'Baldur's Gate', but BG includes the D&D IP owned by WotC. So, the only thing WotC can do, is tell the holder of the BG IP that all older versions based on D&D have to be taken offline, or only sold in conjunction with the new versions.

So if Beamdog would say: "We want to sell the old games separately," then WotC says: "In that case, we don't grant you the use/distribution of the D&D IP." Then Beamdog wouldn't be able to sell any game; not BG, BG2, IWD, old, or new.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

I don't agree.

Baldur's Gate is its own IP, and it includes/is based on another, namely D&D. I can't do a rewrite of Baldur's Gate, basing it on my very own RPG system and then start selling it. Even if I scrap all D&D characters from it such as Drizzt, Elminster, and references such as Baldur's Gate and Candlekeep, I can't do it because the owner of the BG IP owns its own characters, story lines, and events in the game.

Hasbro/WotC have nothing to do with the IP 'Baldur's Gate', but BG includes the D&D IP owned by WotC. So, the only thing WotC can do, is tell the holder of the BG IP that all older versions based on D&D have to be taken offline, or only sold in conjunction with the new versions.

So if Beamdog would say: "We want to sell the old games separately," then WotC says: "In that case, we don't grant you the use/distribution of the D&D IP." Then Beamdog wouldn't be able to sell any game; not BG, BG2, IWD, old, or new.

No, Julius is correct. Baldur's Gate, Candlekeep and all of it is part of the Forgotten Realms, which is a game setting and part of D&D and is owned by WotC. All of these locations existed before there was a Baldur's Gate video game. So WotC control everything about the game aside from the game code.

For a similar example, check out Planescape: Torment. They wanted to do a sequel, but do not have the rights to the D&D Planescape setting. So they've had to create a completely new universe. The sequel is a sequel in spirit only: Torment: Tides of Numenera.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Not sure which war games you are looking for. But I have PC versions of Risk, Diplomacy, Axis and Allies, Battleship...

The hard core war games by SSI. Two of my favorites, were Invasion America and Objective Moscow, but SSI had a lot. Gettysburg was another good one.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

No, Julius is correct. Baldur's Gate, Candlekeep and all of it is part of the Forgotten Realms, which is a game setting and part of D&D and is owned by WotC. All of these locations existed before there was a Baldur's Gate video game. So WotC control everything about the game aside from the game code.

I still think you and Julius are mistaken.

Yes, Baldur's Gate, Candlekeep, etc... are under WotC's control. They are part of D&D. However, the *story* in BG, and characters such as Imoen, Minsc, Jaheira, etc... are IP owned by Bioware (or Beamdog, nowadays, I don't know). WotC has no control over that AFAIK.

That's why I said that it would be impossible to write a new "Baldur's Gate" by changing the names of the locations and use another RPG system. If I'd use characters such as Imoen, I'd still get in trouble with Bioware/Beamdog. Even if I change *those*, I'd probably get in trouble because I ripped off the story.

For a similar example, check out Planescape: Torment. They wanted to do a sequel, but do not have the rights to the D&D Planescape setting. So they've had to create a completely new universe. The sequel is a sequel in spirit only: Torment: Tides of Numenera.

I know. I'll be buying Torment: Tides of Numenera in 2020 or so, after it's all patched up and all expansions are out

[JuliusBorisov]

The license to D&D includes everything, it includes the setting, characters, stories and games themselves. It will be clear from the articles I link below.

Back in the time of original BG, Interplay had all the rights, then lost them to Atari (http://interplay.wikia.com/wiki/Inte...ragons_License), then Hasbro got all the rights from Atari (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...winter-Delayed).
Beamdog doesn't have this IP, all they have is a license to work on BG and to add new content, and to disrtibute the EEs through their own store. Hasbro/WotC decide on distribution ways of the original games and can influence distribution ways of the EEs.
GoG.com got exactly those rights to distribute the original games and the EEs the rightholder (Hasbro/WotC) decided to give them.

[Katsunami]

So... Hasbro doesn't only own the D&D stuff now, but the entire Baldur's Gate game and its story as well? In that case, they can basically do whatever they want.