eInk reader for scientific papers mostly

[captainralf]

Hello everybody,

I'm new here, most obviously and am looking for the perfect device to satisfy my ever-growing desire to read more about life, the universe and everything

but seriously, this is what my requirements are:
- reading scientific papers (mostly pdf)
- reading scientific journals (mostly pdf)
- reading science textbooks (mostly pdf)
these pdfs won't be scanned images, but proper text with diagrams and images. How do the readers fare with only image pdfs? Because I do create my own pdfs sometimes and can't be bothered to correct my ocr software

- making notes: this is not super important, but would definitely be a nice thing to have, as I don't expect my reader to be a text processer, simple marking or underlining would help a lot
I really prefer hand-written notes, are there cases that come with one side reader, one side notebook, that would be awesome???!!!

- it should definitely be an eInk Reader no iPad or the likes.
- good battery life would be nice, but it's not like I'll be camping in the bushes for weeks at a time not planning to do so anyway

- it would be a nice extra, if basic browsing would work... I know this isn't going to be a fantastic user experience, but if possible and feasible (what about battery life?) that would be a really good thing to have. I believe the Kindle DX gives you acces to only amazon shop and wikipedia is that correct? about that I couldn't care less because wikipedia isn't exactly the most reliable source when it comes down to science.
and please no flame wars about this. I love wikipedia, but it's hardly a source to quote when writing a scientific article...

- I didn't really read a lot about this, but how are the readers with creating reference databases, so I don't have to jot that down myself? It's not super-important.. just another nice to have

- a dictionary function is always good to have, I realize some of the readers have that, but can anybody tell me how usable these are especially for scientific usage?

- price isn't toooo much of an issue... I plan on using my eyes for quite a lot more years, so that's worth a lot more than stupid old money... whoever came up with that idea?

Did I forget something? probably, because I have to read off a horrible LCD screen

I've been around on the forum and I suppose there aren't so many readers that make sense. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
The ones that come to mind are:
- Kindle DX
- Pocketbook 902/903
- Onyx Boox M90/ other versions...

I'd really like your input on what would be the best choice or if there are others that I should consider. Are there any news when the Onyx will be available?

Thanks for "listening" and I'm eagerly awaiting a lot of replies

[paola]

welcome captainalf!

I had the same requirements as you do (and we are not alone ) and went for the Pocketbook 903. At that time, the Onyx M90 did not exist, the only additional possibility was the Asus DR900 (sith Sipix screen). I got it at a killer price, I had a deadline to buy, so I knowingly took a risk buying an untested deviec. I am still very pleased with it, although the firmware is not yet capable to serve the hardware well: by this I mean that I want to be able to take free hand notes, and at the moment this is only possible with anything but pdf files. But the annotation of other files now works likea charm - you can higlight, underline, make free hand notes with the stylus. They say the full annotation capabilities for pdf will also come, and I believe them (though you will also find a lot of disgruntled people, who by the way do have a point with the PB302). The competition from teh other devices can only be good in this respect. For the moment, what you can do is select a piece of text, save it as an image, and then annotate that free-hand. Better than nothing (i.e. I can work with that), but this device can do better.

The browser is there already, including a nice hacked version that works better than the original one, but it can be perfected (e.g. there is no landscape mode). So, no problems for basic brosing. However there is a promise of a reviesed browser, and again I believe them as this is already implemented in their "newsreading" application. Forgot to say, you can browse whichever site you like (including listening to online radios - there is a hack for that).

However, if any of these are killer features for you, I would recommend you do not buy anything on a promise. And for this reason, unless you are in a hurry, I would wait to see for the M90 to come out and for the first reviews. I am sure also comparisons between the M90/1 and PB902/3 will come out, so that can only be good for you. For instance, the Onyx has a Pearl screen, the Pocketbook does not, but I can tell you I have read in any light with no problem whatsoever. The lovely thing about the Pocketbook is that you can customise it in many many ways, so it is very flexible. This may also be true of the Onyx, but I do not know.

I am in a similar position to you in the sense that I am going to get another of these for my household - I expect I will end up with another 903, but who knows, I am keeping an open mind. I would also suggest you lurk the Pocketbook and Onyx forums to see what's up.

Dictionary use is fine, I presume this is equivalent across readers with dictionary capabilities.

Battery life not a problem (though any audio use suck a lot of power - brwsing also does, but not that much), in the sense that you forget the last time you charge it - but this I think is for most e-ink.

I am not sure I understood what you meant regarding references.

As you see, I am "ignoring" the Kindle - I have a point of principle against them, in the sense that I want to be the control freak, not Amazon checking on me, and I very much resent their use of their unique format - but that is me, again you should see for yourself. In this sense, Pocketbook is perfect - but as I said, I have already voted with my feet, so I am biased
There are other devices you might want to check out, namely the aforementioned Asus DR950 and the Entourage Edge, which is an e-reader plus tablet with some nice features, like immediately copying a webpage from the tablet browser to the E-ink side (problems for me: too heavy at 1.5 kg, plus the company migth not be around for much longer)

[jocampo]

Hi Paola,

Sorry, I don't understand your comment about "Amazon checking on you". Amazon does not check the content on your Kindle, at least, the one that was not bought from them. They are not allowed to delete your non Amazon books either, not even the ones that you bought from Amazon. Also, the Amazon's format has nothing to do with PDFs; as a matter of fact, they don't sell PDFs, so the format should not interfere at all with that.

@captainalf,
I really like iPad for PDF documents. It is fast and give you the flexibility you need to work on your documents, read, make annotations, etc. But, you strike that one

So the other two alternatives are Sony and Kindle DXG. I personally prefer and like the Kindle DXG over Sony because the screen size. For a large PDF is kind of annoying, at least for me, keep zooming all the time in order to read a big document. If the whole page can be displayed without zooming, is better for me and the reading experience is also faster. The downside is that the Kindle DXG does not give you lot of PDF editing capabilities; on that aspect, Sony's shines and is really good.

[Filark]

If you can stand the weight, the learning curve, and the fact that the company's future is uncertain, it sounds to me like you are a perfect candidate for a full-sized enTourage eDGe. Look for comments and videos here https://www.mobileread.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=218 and here http://www.entourageedge.com/forums/forum.php and here http://www.entourageedge.com/support/

I have the smaller version and want a big one for the 9.7" e-ink screen that works with a 10.1" Android tablet. You can buy extended warranties if you are worried.

[captainralf]

First of all: thanks everybody for your detailed responses. I really appreciate your time and effort!

I had the same requirements as you do (and we are not alone ) and went for the Pocketbook 903. At that time, the Onyx M90 did not exist, the only additional possibility was the Asus DR900 (sith Sipix screen).

I read somewhere about the Asus device. I've had very good experience with their line of laptops, if that's an indication for anything. Thing is.. I don't think it's available in my part of the world(Germany), at least I couldn't find it. Is that one out yet?

But the annotation of other files now works like a charm - you can higlight, underline, make free hand notes with the stylus. They say the full annotation capabilities for pdf will also come, and I believe them (though you will also find a lot of disgruntled people, who by the way do have a point with the PB302). The competition from teh other devices can only be good in this respect. For the moment, what you can do is select a piece of text, save it as an image, and then annotate that free-hand. Better than nothing (i.e. I can work with that), but this device can do better.

that's a start I suppose which would at least make it superior to the Kindle DX(in the note taking department that is), or am I mistaken?

So, no problems for basic browsing.

That is more than I had hoped for

For instance, the Onyx has a Pearl screen, the Pocketbook does not, but I can tell you I have read in any light with no problem whatsoever. The lovely thing about the Pocketbook is that you can customise it in many many ways, so it is very flexible. This may also be true of the Onyx, but I do not know.

I'm a little concerned about the "old" screen technology. I read a few discussions here that got reaaaaally childish, so I don't even dare asking about that...
then again, who am I to judge... so you said you read in any light. I don't mean to offend, but can you give me an example of a low-light situation where you had no trouble? e.g. waiting for the metro at night, with those shabby lights they have

I am in a similar position to you in the sense that I am going to get another of these for my household - I expect I will end up with another 903, but who knows, I am keeping an open mind. I would also suggest you lurk the Pocketbook and Onyx forums to see what's up.

Well you seem satisfied with the Pocketbook then. I was wondering about one thing. If I was to search for a certain word in a pdf, does it take a long time to go to the next found term? I am aware this probably depends on the size of the document, but maybe you can give me your personal impression... if you ever used that feature

Dictionary use is fine, I presume this is equivalent across readers with dictionary capabilities.

This really isn't my biggest concern, but good to know!

Battery life not a problem (though any audio use suck a lot of power - brwsing also does, but not that much), in the sense that you forget the last time you charge it - but this I think is for most e-ink.

Well got my shabby old mp3 player thingy which is a tiny little bugger so while I'm lugging around a 9'' screen that one might as well tag along

I am not sure I understood what you meant regarding references.

I wasn't very clear, sorry about that. what I meant was if a reference management software is included(probably not on the Kindle)?

As you see, I am "ignoring" the Kindle

I get your points about the kindle. You are probably talking about the book deletion incidents. Well, I probably won't buy a lot of books from amazon, but what I don't like about the Kindle is that I might have to start converting files... that is, I want to say archaic, but really it's not only that but also a pain and something I REALLY want to avoid.

There are other devices you might want to check out, namely the aforementioned Asus DR950 and the Entourage Edge, which is an e-reader plus tablet with some nice features, like immediately copying a webpage from the tablet browser to the E-ink side (problems for me: too heavy at 1.5 kg, plus the company migth not be around for much longer)

Again.. where does one GET the Asus?
I checked out the EDGE. It seems like a really good idea. For me the additional weight and probably way reduced battery life are a deal breaker. I am aware that the additional functions are kinda neat. If I ever thought about buying a really small laptop, I might even ditch that and go for a device like that

I really like iPad for PDF documents. It is fast and give you the flexibility you need to work on your documents, read, make annotations, etc. But, you strike that one

I totally get your point jocampo. the iPad is nice, but my reason for buying an eReader is mainly because I don't like reading of LCD for a long/er time. but thanks for mentioning it, anyway!

So the other two alternatives are Sony and Kindle DXG. I personally prefer and like the Kindle DXG over Sony because the screen size. For a large PDF is kind of annoying, at least for me, keep zooming all the time in order to read a big document. If the whole page can be displayed without zooming, is better for me and the reading experience is also faster. The downside is that the Kindle DXG does not give you lot of PDF editing capabilities; on that aspect, Sony's shines and is really good.

My main issue with the small screen size is that it'll make a lot of documents almost unbearable to read, as I can't easily go back and forth between looking at a diagram and it's descriptive text on the same page.

If you can stand the weight, the learning curve, and the fact that the company's future is uncertain, it sounds to me like you are a perfect candidate for a full-sized enTourage eDGe. Look for comments and videos here https://www.mobileread.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=218 and here http://www.entourageedge.com/forums/forum.php and here http://www.entourageedge.com/support/

Thanks for this Filark. Just I really don't think I would be happy with the extra weight I'd have to schlepp around

Well, to sum it up, I'm a little confused and surprised. This shouldn't be that hard now should it?
for your help so far.
Now what I really need is a decision or more information about the new Onyx. Are there any other devices expected in the near future that would be appropriate for my needs?

as for what I can tell from my rather noobish view:
edge: too heavy and short battery life -> dealbreaker
ipad: no eInk screen -> dealbreaker
sony: too small a screen? -> probably a dealbreaker

Pocketbook: screen?, flawed software, basic annotation/browsing, reader functions work... DO they work without a hassle? -> good reader, basic enhanced functions; has possibility to improve in the near future

Kindle DX: good screen, few pdf functions, bad file support, ships from US... don't know, if I'll be able to return it without paying through the nose if I don't like it. -> good reader, no extra functions i need, not a lot of room for improvement as to adding features.

Onyx M90: good screen, everything else pretty much a mystery till later this month. I read a lot of good things about previous models though, if that is of any importance -> hard to judge without the hardware to prove it, i think page turning times appeared to be slow in presentations, does anybody know if they were able to fix that?

Please let me know if I forgot something, or am totally off with some of the points. If you have any additional input, I'll be greatful!

Cheers

[captainralf]

oh my that last one was a post from hell... how did it ever grow so HUGE?
sorry about that folks, I hope you can fight through...

[captainralf]

if you own an edge or not... It apparently will change the world: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28vvRbhOdg8 or rather should have by this time... hilarious promotional video.

[odiakkoh]

Cant help much with the ereader but i was browsing ereader covers the other day and there were some that had place to keep paper on one side while the ereader went on the other.

[captainralf]

Hi odiakkoh,
thanks that sounds promising!
You don't happen to remember where you found those, do you?

[odiakkoh]

No im sorry i cant quite remember. I was browsing on both amazon and random sites that popped up on google.

[physics]

Hi-

I've noted this a few times around here, but you might want to know that many pdf viewers on several ereaders have problems with the letter beta in documents compiled with pdflatex (which a lot of journals do). The letter beta is written on top of the previous letter. I was trying to read papers on the QCD beta function, and well, it was problem. This happens on Kindles, Sony e-readers, the adobe pdf viewer on the pocketbooks, and the entourage edge. I don't know anyone with a Nook to try on that.

Depending on what sort of science pdfs you want to read, this may or may not be an issue for you.

[Filark]

Originally Posted by captainralf

if you own an edge or not... It apparently will change the world: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28vvRbhOdg8 or rather should have by this time... hilarious promotional video.

Ack! It's not the "future" I hold in my hands when I use my Pocket eDGe, lol! It's just a nifty electronic device that is not the absolute best ereader (no Pearl, otherwise very good) nor the best tablet out there, but a slightly chunky happy marriage of the two.

I'm keeping an eye out for the Onyx Boox M90 also. Hope it lives up to its promise!

Good luck deciding!

[paola]

Originally Posted by jocampo

Hi Paola,

Sorry, I don't understand your comment about "Amazon checking on you". Amazon does not check the content on your Kindle, at least, the one that was not bought from them. They are not allowed to delete your non Amazon books either, not even the ones that you bought from Amazon. Also, the Amazon's format has nothing to do with PDFs; as a matter of fact, they don't sell PDFs, so the format should not interfere at all with that.

Hi Jocampo, I am referring specifically to this passage (from their terms and conditions):

Information Received. The Software will provide Amazon with data about your Kindle and its interaction with the Service (such as available memory, up-time, log files, and signal strength). The Software will also provide Amazon with information related to the Digital Content on your Kindle and Other Devices and your use of it (such as last page read and content archiving). Annotations, bookmarks, notes, highlights, or similar markings you make using your Kindle or Reading Application and other information you provide may be stored on servers that are located outside the country in which you live. Any information we receive is subject to the Amazon.co.uk Privacy Notice. Personal information transferred to countries outside of the European Economic Area, if any, will be transferred in accordance with the Amazon.co.uk privacy notice located at www.amazon.co.uk/privacy and as permitted by applicable data protection laws.

the bit I underlined really irks me.

@captainralf: why don't you give me your pdf, a word, and then I test it?

[captainralf]

No im sorry i cant quite remember. I was browsing on both amazon and random sites that popped up on google.

Thanks anyway, it's good to know there might at least be the perfect cover for my eReader out there

I've noted this a few times around here, but you might want to know that many pdf viewers on several ereaders have problems with the letter beta in documents compiled with pdflatex (which a lot of journals do). The letter beta is written on top of the previous letter. I was trying to read papers on the QCD beta function, and well, it was problem. This happens on Kindles, Sony e-readers, the adobe pdf viewer on the pocketbooks, and the entourage edge. I don't know anyone with a Nook to try on that.

well, that seems odd.. is this just related to the letter beta or general greek characters. That would really throw me off as I do have quite some physics reading ahead of me...
Is that dependent on the file format or a general issue?

Good luck deciding!

Thanks Filark!

Hi Jocampo, I am referring specifically to this passage (from their terms and conditions):

Oh my, now THAT is good to know. I am a fan of my personal privacy to a reasonable extend. That policy is NASTY!
I was reluctant to get a Kindle at first, then I reconsidered... now... I'm really not so sure anymore
Thanks for pointing that out Paola

@captainralf: why don't you give me your pdf, a word, and then I test it?

you made me an offer I can't refuse
The thing is, most of the material I have, is not free for distribution, so to get around that I picked a random free journal. Maybe you can pick one of the pages with images and text on the side/above/below.
you can download the pdf here:http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0014804
I also attached a file with some equations. I hope the Open University isn't going to kill me for this, but these equations aren't exactly their inventions, so in case anyone asks...



Thank you guys for helping me with this. I'm already getting excited How helpful is THAT when trying to make in informed decision...

[jocampo]

Originally Posted by paola

Hi Jocampo, I am referring specifically to this passage (from their terms and conditions):


the bit I underlined really irks me.

@captainralf: why don't you give me your pdf, a word, and then I test it?

The way Kindle works, some data needs to be stored on different servers. That helps with some features like identifying popular passages or paragraphs that have been highlighted for other people as well.

To be honest with you and because I'm in the IT world, most electronic devices collect some information of you no matter what and you will have to be a real computer guru if you want to block it. The most typical example is browsing Internet. Your IP, the pages you visit, when you visit those, the type of browser you have, even the type of computer, everything is logged on external web servers and it is legal in most countries. That's how some sites can recommend you some type of merchandise real time or even send you emails with deals you like.

I would not be worried about Amazon, legally they cannot or should not delete your books from your Kindle. Either way, you have a backup of your ebook library, don't you???

@captainralf,
I don't work for Amazon or have any commercial Interest on them, but I can tell there is no privacy issue with Kindles. Some information is collected just to give you additional features like popular passages but you can block that too. And wifi can be turned off (mine is off all the time) to save battery even more; when off, there is no possible way of sending or receiving any kind of information from or to Amazon servers.