09-14-2010, 11:00 AM | #31 | |
Wizard
Posts: 2,013
Karma: 251649
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tempe, AZ, USA, Earth
Device: JetBook Lite (away from home) + 1 spare, 32" TV (at home)
|
Quote:
It's a rare person who isn't a Luddite of sorts. I have a cell phone but it doesn't even have a camera. It's a phone; I use it to make phone calls in energencies when a landline is not available. Otherwise, it stays turned off. That alone makes me a Luddite. I won't bore you with the list of other new technology I've not embraced. When I made the comment about Luddism, I was responding to Hired Goons comment about preferring an older, less efficient technology, specifically folder/filename tree organization, then saying that because the subject keeps coming up there must be something to it. "It" is Luddism. Comparing folder/filename tree organization to metadata (tag) organization is like comparing letters to email. Letters are slow and require the payment of postage, the materials they are written on and with, and the containers they are sent in (aka envelopes). Emails are much faster, require no postage, and may be less stressful to the environment (no trees have to die to create and send an email). The reason many people still prefer letters over email is the technology to send and read them is not available to them, they do not understand the technology required, or they do not want to embrace the technology required. The latter may be due to the fear of learning new technology, an inability to understand the new technology, or the comfort of having something that, to them is more tangible than the new technology. In otherwords, they prefer to have something they can hold in their hot, little hands to read, then bundle up and wrap with a ribbon to save. It's no different than people resisting e-books because they prefer the feel of a book, the smell of a book, and/or the more tangible presence (and/or appearance; bragging rights means a lot to many people) of books on a bookshelf over more efficient storage on a HDD or SDD. The same is true of file organization. The vast majority of us cut our eyeteeth on the traditional folder/filename tree system of organizing our files. It is easy for us to use because we are used to it and we see it at a glance. It is highly inefficient because it is pretty much one dimensional. Books can be classified in numerous ways. A single book may be classed as multiple genres, by author, by series, by sub-series, by series or sub-series number, by subject matter, by period, by the characters, by location of the story, by ISBN, etc. To be able to search a book by any of those criteria would require impossibly long filenames to include all the metadata. To organise them by all of those criteria would require filing multiple copies in multiple folders and subfolders of various branches of the tree. A way to cut down on the number of copies of files would be to use shortcuts to files but creating and maintaining them would be a royal pain. Calibre does away with the need to have impossibly long filenames, creating, maintaining, and navigating complex trees, and the need for creating shortcuts or multiple copies of a book, the same way many photo album programs have been using similar systems for years. Once one becomes familiar with it, searches are simpler and improved. I'm looking forward to an OS that will eliminate the folder/filename tree system of file organization and replace it with a tag organization system like calibre's. I have many documents in my computer that I have many duplicate copies of because they can be filed under more than one category. The tech help documents I have I plan on moving someday (when I have time) into a separate library in calibre so I can get rid of the duplicates. I haven't adopted a photo album program that uses a tag filing system like calibre's yet, also due to a lack of time. Both are on my to-do list. I'm using calibre now because I'm in the process of converting my p-books to e-books (of sorts), and I have to file the new e-books only once. Same for the e-books I've downloaded. As far as having room for only one set of books in your computer goes, if you are running that close to filling your computer, you need to upgrade to a larger hard drive or invest in an external hard drive to store the original files on. File storage per GB is cheap nowadays. |
|
09-14-2010, 12:42 PM | #32 |
Junior Member
Posts: 7
Karma: 10
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Sony 600
|
With respect, Calibre is clunky and slow, and not particularly pretty to look at. I like functional software, but I like "pretty" software too. I've just tried Alpha Ebook manager demo, and it's fast and much more professional in it's look. It does a better job of recognizing books and authors, and I find the way it looks up ISBN numbers and allows you to pull covers from Google images. Furthermore, it simply links to my archaic folder structure, rather than takes takes over the system. Where it lacks is in conversion and in interfacing with hardware. As far as I can see you can simply copy or move books to SD cards. If I could have the best of both programs I'd be entirely content.
Am I a luddite...no. My house is wired for sound, all attached to mp3 server, controllable with portable devices, and accessible anywhere there is internet. My vehicle has portable drives with full mp3 collection controllable by voice. Movie collection is being centralized to a server also. My gaming computer/driving sim would make your eyes pop out. Love technology, but I love being in control too. I like to be the boss. |
Advert | |
|
09-14-2010, 03:21 PM | #33 | |
Wizard
Posts: 2,013
Karma: 251649
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tempe, AZ, USA, Earth
Device: JetBook Lite (away from home) + 1 spare, 32" TV (at home)
|
Quote:
I suppose since you love being in control, you would prefer driving a Model T Ford over a modern day Ford. In the Model T, you had full control of the transmission (three little pedals on the floor), the engine (you had full control of the throttle plate, choke, and spark advance) and when the starter engaged and disengaged (heck, YOU were the starter). You had full control of brake adjustments, too. Not to mention you prefer using dos to control your computer instead of an Operating System since the OS doesn't give you as much control over your computer as dos commands do. If you like how Alfa manages your books, why do you still want to be "in control" of your files? I feel I'm in full control of my books using calibre (and the ease of achieving that control is increasing all the time). As I mentioned before, once I've put a book on calibre, I've never gone back to either calibre's libraries or the folder I keep my original book files in to access a file. It's easier and faster to do so with calibre. And, if you just have to have access to a file, calibre will navigate to the folder it is in. You remind me of the bosses I've seen (both over me and under me) who were afraid to delegate responsibilities and tasks to subordinates. They wanted to be in full control of all processes, thus being overwhelmed and unable to progress with anything efficiently. I saw a lot of those bosses since they didn't last long. It was the ones who were smart enough to relinquish control of tasks to subordinates and merely direct the overall operation of their subordinates who were able to accomplish the most and be the most progressive. I'm reminded of the story about the army that was training some sergeants for lieutenant. On a question, they were asked how, while engaged in battle, would they solve the problem of how to get their troops across a river. The lieutenants came up with a variety of schemes on how to get the troops across the river, all of which were feasable, many downright clever, but only one answer was correct. That was the one that said to order the sergeants to get their troops across the river. I see little point in having a program that organizes my books, music, whatever, if I'm also going to have to directly access my books, music, whatever, to use it. I also fail to see the need to "control' where that music is stored if I can access it any time and any way I want using a program that organizes it for me. I worked in warehousing for a large electric power and irrigation water utility about 30 years. The oldtimers liked to have control of the material we warehoused by keeping everything in order by stock code. It was a simple way to find material but it was grossly inefficient because stock had to constantly be moved around to make room for new stock coming in. Storing stock based on size, frequency of use, and available space made far more sense and was less work in the long run because it dramatically reduced the amount of times stock was handled before finally going out for use. It took computer locating to make the random storage concept work. Stock locations had to be based on an alpha numeric code the computer could understand that was easily laid out in the warehouse yet the oldtimers (and a lot of the youngsters) insisted on using descriptions (like backwall) to locate stock then howled a blue streak how the system was no good when the computers would have them running back and forth to fill an order because the computers were using the order of the locator code. We had people who persisted in relocating existing stock to make room for incoming stock when all that was needed was put the overflow in unused space and tell the computer where you put it. Multiple locations reduced the amount of stock handling needed to maintain proper stock rotation (essential when stock had warranty expiration dates) anyway. Instead of having warehouses any employee from another warehouse could easily and quickly find stock in, for the longest time, it was a nightmare when an employee had to transfer to another warehouse to help out because the each warehouse was laid out differently according to the whims of the employees at each warehouse instead of using the easy to use system spelled out that would have insured uniformity. It took almost twenty years for the random storage system to become efficient because of employee (and oldtimers in lower management) resistance to the system. It wasn't until the company started promoting based on merit and the ability to manage without micromanaging that progress was made. You talk about all technology you have embraced yet you still want to be tied to the the archaic folder/filename tree? Puh-lease! If you like Alfa better than calibre, that's fine. But to say it's better because you can still "control" outdated technology is ludicrous. Good luck with it. Last edited by Lady Fitzgerald; 09-14-2010 at 03:28 PM. |
|
09-14-2010, 03:23 PM | #34 | ||
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 9,707
Karma: 32763414
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Krewerd
Device: Pocketbook Inkpad 4 Color; Samsung Galaxy Tab S6
|
Quote:
Quote:
I have my books stored on my external hard drive. In four formats: raw (which isn't much more than an unpacked epub structure), epub, mobi and PDF. And no, I don't use Calibre to make all those formats, I make use of a zipper, mobigen and LaTeX (and some homegrown handywork to stich it all together). The only format I don't use is epub (except to generate my mobi books). Because Calibre insists of making a copy of the books I add, it's a complete waste of space. I tried to import it all in Calibre, but it decided to handle each format as a different book, instead of making it all one book, with 3 formats... |
||
09-14-2010, 04:20 PM | #35 | |||
Wizard
Posts: 2,013
Karma: 251649
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tempe, AZ, USA, Earth
Device: JetBook Lite (away from home) + 1 spare, 32" TV (at home)
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
Advert | |
|
09-14-2010, 06:24 PM | #36 |
Junior Member
Posts: 7
Karma: 10
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Sony 600
|
We agree that Calibre is plain looking - I'd say about Windows 95 in appearance. I don't know much about programming but I question the efficiency of it. I'm impatient and don't like to wait for install or start-up. I appreciate what the program can do in terms of conversion, and I understand the benefits of meta-tags, and not altering your original files but it's just not for me. Don't need it. Don't like being forced to use it so I won't. It's not like a paid a lot of money for the program, but I don't like the way I'm being told what's best for me. Listening to the "customers" isn't fully being implemented here, but hey...no one is forcing me to use it.
I don't get the car analogy. I appreciate the look and beauty of some older cars, but prefer modern day comforts. Air conditioning, sub-woofer sound, blue tooth heated seats, gps, rear-view camera, etc...but I will say that a sports car must be manual for me rather than automatic. Automatic could be faster for all I care, but there's something about changing the gears yourself...feeling part of the car in some way. As for DOS...it was frustrating to use. Config.sys this, autoexec.bat that - why would I ever want to go back to that. Newer OS all the way. I think your trying too hard to label me as a luddite or control freak. Experience has taught me that I do need to be involved in things and I do appreciate some level of control or at least the OPTION to shape it to my habits and desires - is that so wrong? My preference is again folder structure left intact with catalog software simply linking to it, still providing search of all that meta-tag stuff, and without any duplication of files. Alfa vs alpha...I assure you I'm using the demo. It's the difference in the way some people's minds work. Perhaps my mind is too closed at my stage of life. All I want is some catalogue front end, to QUICKLY pull up pretty jpg covers of my books, with perhaps a brief summary, convert them to epub or lrf if needed (Sony 600 here) and fire them to the device if I want. This can be done without all this data manipulation and duplicity, and with improved aesthetics and quicker execution, hence my discontent. As for any backups of data...I like to have my "books" folder linked to a Mozy account for $5/month. Calibre's duplicity isn't going to help me if the laptop gets swiped or if the drive gets bricked. USB one touch is great too and I use that as well, but not gonna help if your house burns down. Calibre clearly works for you and thousands of others, and I appreciate your support of it. I hate to bash and critique someone's hard work particularly when they've done so much for the ebook community and not really asked much in return. To me though it could simply be better and more flexible. These issues are mentioned since early times for this program, but as I said before...they will continue to be brought up. |
09-14-2010, 07:37 PM | #37 |
Junior Member
Posts: 7
Karma: 10
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Sony 600
|
Additionally the fact that I'm here using a reader instead of using paper books would suggest I'm not a luddite. I don't think we are even arguing about technology, but more the evolution of data management. Moving from file level to data level. What if we take the contents of my hard drive and throw it all into one big file, jumble it up, - text files, music, pics, etc. and then have a program keep track of where everything is. Sure it can work for search and retrieval IF properly tagged but I don't have complete faith in the software to do it. I've learned to mistrust software.
How many times have you installed a new program and found that it wants to install numerous other little applications along with it by default. How many times have you had to go into options or preferences in a program to find by default your data is being anonymously sent to the developer or some third party for marketing and advertising purposes. Not that Calibre does this, but I just saying I don't trust the way it handles things. It certainly makes it's mistakes in recognizing authors and titles, which requires much manual correction. I ask it to add a folder, and then go back to see if all the titles were properly added and often some titles are left out. If you make the leap away from a file structure, and find it doesn't work for you, it might be quite a bit of work to restore it. From a psychological perspective I think some people need a certain order to things. I personally don't need to have all the objects on my desk at tight 90 degree angles but some people do. It's not always practical either. I haven't timed myself, but I think I could sit down, and click through the old file system to get the info I needed faster than clicking on Calibre to access it. Similarly I may be able to physically walk to the library of my house and select the paper book I need faster than I can access it's digital cousin. I had a laugh with one of my neighbours. He asked his kid to look up the phone number of a certain business. The kid runs upstairs, turns on the computer, waits for it to boot, googles it, writes it down and then comes back down the stairs again. Total time spent way longer than the yellow pages would have been. |
09-14-2010, 07:41 PM | #38 | |
Wizard
Posts: 2,013
Karma: 251649
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tempe, AZ, USA, Earth
Device: JetBook Lite (away from home) + 1 spare, 32" TV (at home)
|
Quote:
The car anology refers to the fact that cars now automatically do many of the tasks that used to depend on driver skill. I also prefer a manual over an automatic (heck, I can double clutch) but the fact is today's automatics are superior to manuals when it comes to gas mileage and torque multiplication (sticks still cost less to maintain). Even the big rigs are going over to them. I admit I'm still keeping my original files but now it's just because I can (originally it was because I was still evaluating calibre) but, seeing as how I've never opened the folder they're on except to drag newly added books into, once I start filling up the drive (1 TB; I've a long way to go), it's history; I just don't need it. |
|
09-15-2010, 02:08 AM | #39 | ||
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 9,707
Karma: 32763414
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Krewerd
Device: Pocketbook Inkpad 4 Color; Samsung Galaxy Tab S6
|
Please tell me how then... Last i checked (and that was yesterday), I could only add a tag, not a subtag (so I can say show all series from that and that author).
Quote:
Quote:
Calibre is a nice program, but absolutely not perfect. It might be perfect for you, but for me it only creates a strain on my external HD (which is backup btw on my NAS) which is not necessary. But Calibre gave me a nice idea about a new project: create a catalog application, with a folder-like structure, which will read the meta data from my books but won't copy it. |
||
10-08-2010, 11:31 AM | #40 |
Fanatic
Posts: 550
Karma: 1020204
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Device: Lenovo Yoga Tab 2 (Android)
|
I'm gonna start sighing too. A lot more people are becoming interested in e-readers and e-books, and how to manage and convert them, so a lot more people will start using Calibre and asking questions about why this, why that... You have to be ready for it, and if you can't offer an explanation or at the very least point people to an FAQ every time it comes up, then perhaps you should avoid these kinds of threads. I think I saw someone whose sig has a link that leads to a very nice explanation to whys and wherefores of Calibre. It helped me clear up some confusion I had wrt the program, after which I finally decided that it's not for me.
I think it all comes down to what people want. If they want a folder-like structure, point them to the location of such a program, or at the very least let them know what to search for on Google. If someone says, Thank you very much, I used Calibre for several months but have personal issues with how it handles things, don't keep telling them how good a program it actually is, and how if they just tried more or if they spent time learning regexes and tweaking it, they'd be happy with it. If I were to sigh every time a student came to me complaining about how she doesn't understand articles and doesn't see their point, and could I please explain them to her again, I'd be out of breath. It doesn't matter that I gave that lecture hundreds of times in the past five years I've been teaching - I smile, and say, Of course! Please step into my office and let's work on it. |
10-14-2010, 08:34 PM | #41 | |
Night Reader
Posts: 127
Karma: 4314
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Rocky Mountains (US)
Device: Sony PRS-650
|
Quote:
It all comes down to personal preferences and finding a program that fits the way a person thinks and does things. In my years of teaching adults, I learned that people learn and think in very different ways. An explanation that works for one individual does not suffice for another ... and so it should be. I actually found it fun and exhilarating to come up with additional explanations and examples on the spot. I have come to very much appreciate the rich tapestry of humankind with all of the differences that can be found -- what an adventure! In this case, it may well mean that both calibre and another library management program are both used -- whatever works for that person. |
|
10-15-2010, 09:26 AM | #42 |
Wizard
Posts: 3,025
Karma: 11196738
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Piper College
Device: Samsung A21
|
interesting, I did not know that some ereaders came without a library management solution. My Aluratek Libra Pro comes with an Adobe library management software. In fact the Adobe software recieves the ebooks from Borders and uploads it to the Libra. Its a great software package but i need to spend a little bit more time with it.
|
10-21-2010, 03:44 AM | #43 |
Connoisseur
Posts: 75
Karma: 14
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Australia
Device: iPad Pro 12"; Kindle Paperwhite
|
All of the solutions mentioned above are missing the one main function I need - the ability to be installed on a host server so that I can get to it from wherever I am in the world (preferably via browser).
I've been trying to set one up using CMS/eCommerce/wiki software, but none of them have yet managed to combine the functionality I need with ease of use - I seem to be able to get either one or the other. Anyone got any suggestions? |
10-21-2010, 05:01 AM | #44 | |
Wizard
Posts: 2,013
Karma: 251649
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tempe, AZ, USA, Earth
Device: JetBook Lite (away from home) + 1 spare, 32" TV (at home)
|
Quote:
Another option my be to keep a copy of your library (using what ever software you wish) in an online storage site like Dropbox. If your library is actually so huge that sites like Dropbox can't handle it, you could just use an online backup service like Mozy or Carbonite. They cost $60 or less a year and have unlimited storage. |
|
11-04-2010, 02:15 AM | #45 |
Connoisseur
Posts: 88
Karma: 60
Join Date: Oct 2010
Device: ProMedia eReader, Sony PRS-600
|
I admit I haven't looked much at other book management apps. Maybe because I had some things lined out what I wanted in software. It needs to be Open Source, run on Windows (and maybe others), Updated Regularly, Support different formats and readers, Look cool and be robust. Plop, Calibre...
The reason I keep some originals I import into Calibre are; Calibre adds a bookmark file into the ebook. Especially when developing an eBook, you don't want additional items for a particular software in your 'original'. Also with other books I keep an original because sometimes when I get info/cover/whatever downloaded it shows an English cover or something is wrong with the meta-data. I don't know if things like that can be undone to revert back to the original info. |
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Delete whole catalog? | Coleccionista | EPUBReader | 3 | 09-17-2010 11:08 AM |
Need Help with Book Catalog | swaneelee | Amazon Kindle | 2 | 05-16-2010 11:46 AM |
Smashwords Catalog | josepinto | EPUBReader | 6 | 02-04-2010 01:41 PM |
Stanza catalog? | Dahak | Reading and Management | 2 | 01-17-2010 12:20 AM |
Book Catalog | Mitchll | Sony Reader | 2 | 03-29-2007 11:21 AM |