Torn between Apple IPad and Onyx boox 9.7'' devices

[tommyer]

I want to read books and articles in EPUB and PDF on the device, highlighting and taking handwritten notes.

I think with pdfs not having to zoom or pan is nice, likewise it is nice to have the full pdf page displayed on the screen and letter size is still readable (although from what I saw on the IPad Pro it still can be pretty small, I would like to have it bigger). That's nice because you can mark a word in the first paragraph and one in the last and then connect them with a pen. Thus you can connect anything with everything other on the same page if you want to.

If you have to scroll and zoom slowly as in OB 9.7'' devices, you can't do such tasks so easily.

On the other hand, I find a little bit of zooming ok. Usually you do it only once for a document. I also do not have a problem with landscape modus for those pdfs which need it und I guess there will still be some of them around on the 9.7'' level. Drawback is you loose the overview of the document page which is something the brain does not like because it likes to see things for a while and it can more easily connect and think this way.

Then there are many people who are fine with doing heavy reading on the Ipad and say their eyes have no problem with it. This is so significant because the biggest point of the OB devices is the EPD, the paperlike reading, exactly for the eyes plus pdf handling.

I mean when I buy OB n96 for 325€ (provided I am lucky with tax & custom) it is more than at least 200€ cheaper than Ipad Pro 9.7'' and 300€ cheaper than IPad Pro 10.5''.

People who want to buy IPadPro worry about storage. CHeapest version of IPad Pro 10.5'' with 620€ has 64GB storage. But look at OB N96, it only has 16GB.

Again, I want to do reading & annotating pdfs on the wireless devices and I then will want to send them to my desktop pc to work with them further, for example in literature mangement software. So these devices are second ones, helping devices for pc work, no replacement intended.

So for this task alone I will not need so much storage neither in a OB nor in a IPad. But if you have an IPAD, you want to be open future or future-proof, may be one day you want to do photographing, music programming or making or collecting videos. Then more storage would be nice. Also the internet compatibility and speed in everything is very nice with the IPADs. But the prices go way up.

One could put it like this: Objectively EINK remains the best for the eyes. If you want to work with PDFs on E-Ink, Onyx Boox is best. But if you are okay with the second best solution for your eyes, then you go for the IPAD Pro because their screens and other features make for an acceptable reading experience except if you have very sensitive eyes. So the IPAD gives you the 2nd best solution for the eyes - many people seem to be not even aware that such lighting could strain their eyes - and in addition a host of other options and functionalities. Not to forget, probably very fast, accurate and useful apps to work with pdfs beating pdf-functionality of OB N96. But the host of additional options is related to storage. You will need more storage and at that point the price will rise steeply, also extra equipment. E.g. stylus is included in OB N96 for 325€ but not in IPad Pro 10.5 meaning 100€ extra.

Another problem is that a new generation of OB devices is announced for September. But who likes to wait and who knows what price they will come up with and if you aer lucky enough to get one.

The question with apple ipad pro 10.5'' is also, do I need all of that? Not really, but may be in the future, so it can be a nice to have. But if you want replace notebook or PC through IPAD, then prices go even further up because of the extras and my limits are reached. But why spending 650 to 750€ for a device that can't replace desktop pc or notebook? It must be very much better for eyesight than the others apart from being able to read on your lap etc to justify good laptop money for a tablet.

[JSWolf]

For PDF, the iPad is going to be a much better choice than an eInk Reader. It just works better and the Goodreader app is very good for allowing to do do all kinds of things with PDF. It's the app that makes an iPad ideal for PDF.

[HarryT]

I have a 10.5" iPad Pro, and it's superb for reading PDFs. The "Goodreader" app is the best in the business for use with PDFs.

[JSWolf]

You can have a look at the Goodreader app at their website.

https://www.goodreader.com/

[Pajamaman]

The in-built Oreader Onyx app is an excellent PDF reader. I read PDFs with it on a 6" in landscape mode.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

The in-built Oreader Onyx app is an excellent PDF reader. I read PDFs with it on a 6" in landscape mode.

I've owned several Onyx devices over the years, and they aren't at all good for working with multiple documents simultaneously, unfortunately, which is an important use-case for academic research.

[tommyer]

JSWolf and HarryT, Thank you very much for your opinions. It's much appreciated. HarryT, I value your take on the topic in particular because I gathered from your earlier posts and/or signature that you use the IPad in a profession/job comparable to that of an editor (in German 'Lektor'), someone who works in a publishing house and does the editing of books and articles before they will be printed including communication and suggestions to the author. It's a professional field I worked in myself. The point is you always have to read [although I read on paper first while working there, second step was to correct (proof-read), shorten or clarify the text on the (word, not pdf) document on the pc].

And that's what I am interested in. The opinions of people who spend a substantial part of the day reading and annotating, basically regardless if it's for work or not. Academics, authors, editors, engineers, programmers, journalists, 'private scholars'. Regardless of your profession it comes down to the activity of reading and working with pdfs a substantial time each day of the working week.

Firstly and fundamentally, what I really like to etablish here and hear your opinions on is whether you think the following is true:

"One could put it like this: Objectively EINK remains the best for the eyes. If you want to work with PDFs on E-Ink, Onyx Boox is best, if you want to go for the device that is best for your eyes. But if you are okay with the second best solution for your eyes, then you go for the IPAD Pro because their screens and other features make for an acceptable reading and, above all, working experience, except if you have very sensitive eyes. So the IPAD gives you the 2nd best solution for the eyes and the best solution for handling pdfs."

I think that the subject 'eyes' is to be treated separately from usability/functionality. What is the exact ranking in each of them? It is clear that in usability an IPad beats an OB E-Ink hands down. But do you not think that with regards to eye strain the OB E-Ink is the best solution for pdfs? (Plus it is cheaper than an IPad.)

I am sorry, if I get a bit obsessive about this, and I get it, if you, HarryT, say that the Ipad Pro is superb for reading pdfs knowing that you do not voice your opinion on the basis of a user profile who only now and then reads a scientific pdf or just handles his business correspondence (pdf) but reads and works with multi-page pdfs extensively many hours of many days of the week (also using scanned pdfs as I do as well).
I know as well that you respect the opinion opting for Eink in order to reduce unnecessary eye strain, even if pdfs are involved.

Caveat for all of these things is of course: YMMV Your Milage May Vary

If I buy an IpadPro 10.5' I think I will opt for the smallest storage because until now I have not done very much of photographing, video making & watching and music (on the PC). Since you can connect the IPad to the (Windows)PC, I would regularly send files no longer needed on the IPad to the PC. [Until the day that my reference management software works smoothly on the IPad, which would be excellent to import citations from a pdf document to the reference management software on the same (eye-friendly) device, if you want to]. I do not intend the Ipad to replace my desktop-PC, hence my decision for the lowest storage. Nonetheless, I would appreciate to hear any counterarguments on that. I know I take this subject over the top, but it also has a lot to do with my budget being rather tight.

[Pajamaman]

I couldn't read on LCD for more than a few minutes. Eye burn. E-ink exists for a reason. I suggest you try reading a book on your phone or computer screen...

I find the Onyx 6" with Oreader in landscape surprisingly good. I imagine it would be very good with a 9.7" screen in landscape. I suggest you ask in the Onyx sub-forum.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

I couldn't read on LCD for more than a few minutes. Eye burn.

That must make life difficult for you in today's world. There are an awful lot of jobs these days which involve reading from a computer screen all day, and LCD is what the overwhelming majority of such screens are. Have you seen an optician to see if there's anything that can be done to correct the problem for you?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by tommyer

JSWolf and HarryT, Thank you very much for your opinions. It's much appreciated. HarryT, I value your take on the topic in particular because I gathered from your earlier posts and/or signature that you use the IPad in a profession/job comparable to that of an editor (in German 'Lektor'), someone who works in a publishing house and does the editing of books and articles before they will be printed including communication and suggestions to the author. It's a professional field I worked in myself. The point is you always have to read [although I read on paper first while working there, second step was to correct (proof-read), shorten or clarify the text on the (word, not pdf) document on the pc].

And that's what I am interested in. The opinions of people who spend a substantial part of the day reading and annotating, basically regardless if it's for work or not. Academics, authors, editors, engineers, programmers, journalists, 'private scholars'. Regardless of your profession it comes down to the activity of reading and working with pdfs a substantial time each day of the working week.

It's not a job for me, but a hobby - academic research in Egyptology - but it's one that I spend several hours doing every day. I do, however, spend my working day as an IT Consultant using an LCD computer screen.

"One could put it like this: Objectively EINK remains the best for the eyes. If you want to work with PDFs on E-Ink, Onyx Boox is best, if you want to go for the device that is best for your eyes. But if you are okay with the second best solution for your eyes, then you go for the IPAD Pro because their screens and other features make for an acceptable reading and, above all, working experience, except if you have very sensitive eyes. So the IPAD gives you the 2nd best solution for the eyes and the best solution for handling pdfs."

I've never personally had any problem whatsoever reading from LCD screens, and it's something I've been doing for well over 30 years now. I prefer eInk devices for reading fiction on, due to their long battery life and sunlight visibility, but for use at home I don't have the slightest issue with LCD screens. Most people who have eye-strain issues with LCD screens do, I suspect, have the screen brightness set far too high.

I am sorry, if I get a bit obsessive about this, and I get it, if you, HarryT, say that the Ipad Pro is superb for reading pdfs knowing that you do not voice your opinion on the basis of a user profile who only now and then reads a scientific pdf or just handles his business correspondence (pdf) but reads and works with multi-page pdfs extensively many hours of many days of the week (also using scanned pdfs as I do as well).

It's not reading multi-page PDFs that the issue. My usage, as is typical for academic reading, involves having multiple documents open at the same time (or looking at different parts of the same document) and being able to rapidly flip between them. Unfortunately, all the eInk devices I've used are (reasonably enough) targetted primarily at fiction readers. They're great for reading one book from start to finish, but not good at all for handling multiple documents open at the same time. The Goodreader app on the iPad has a "tabbed" interface which makes it extremely easy to rapidly flip from one document to another.

Hence I read fiction on my eInk Kindle, but academic PDFs on my iPad.

[tommyer]

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

I read PDFs with it on a 6" in landscape mode.

I did the same, back in the day my OB device was still alive. Drawback was that you could only look at a small part of one page at the time, and that there were pdf-documents that were difficult to read on the 6''. A good example for this being pdfs like this: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...2346.12700/pdf

These left almost no space for highlighting and even the most basic scribbling on the margins while maintaining readable size of letters.

With the 6'' OB device, I must add, I generally could not make detailed handwritten notes. I had to reduce annotation to highlighting, and scribbling lines, exclamation and questions marks on the margins without having to scroll/pan (I had no stylus, using hand touch). With the 9.7'' this would be better, but I do not expect it to be perfect; as with the Ipad where you can read the whole pdf page on the screen and then when you want to make a handwritten note you can partially zoom in and insert your note very easily, quickly and fluently.

[But I am not sure if I had the same reader app you had.]

[tommyer]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Most people who have eye-strain issues with LCD screens do, I suspect, have the screen brightness set far too high.

Thank you for mentioning this important nuance which I have come to realize only rather recently.

Originally Posted by HarryT

It's not reading multi-page PDFs that the issue. My usage, as is typical for academic reading, involves having multiple documents open at the same time (or looking at different parts of the same document) and being able to rapidly flip between them. Unfortunately, all the eInk devices I've used are (reasonably enough) targetted primarily at fiction readers. They're great for reading one book from start to finish, but not good at all for handling multiple documents open at the same time. The Goodreader app on the iPad has a "tabbed" interface which makes it extremely easy to rapidly flip from one document to another.

Having multiple documents open is very useful. But my personal view based on my user profile is that I do not need that very often because putting citations and text passages next to one another and ordering & assembling them according to keywords, categories and headings in outlines/structure I do with my reference management program on the desktop-PC.

Your point is still very valid, above all, because the functionality of pdf apps in IPads is excellent in many directions, potentially making reference management programs on other devices redundant and opening the door for managing all of your knowledge items on one device: the IPad.

[Alohamora]

I have totally given up on eink. It's only advantages are battery life and readability in direct sunlight. I would not give up the fluid zooming and scrolling of an LCD tablet for that, especially when reading PDF. I have no eyestrain at all on a properly adjusted LCD, I use a PC all day at work and tablet or phone for hours each day.

[tommyer]

Because I learned some Semitic languages for some time, I can particularly appreciate the value added of having more than one pdf open at the time, namely for working with linguistic textbooks and original language pdfs. It must be absolutely perfect for that purpose.

[tommyer]

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

I couldn't read on LCD for more than a few minutes. Eye burn. E-ink exists for a reason. I suggest you try reading a book on your phone or computer screen...

My question is more specific. Are the screens of the IPad pro devices much superior to the average phone or computer screen with regards to eye strain? Furthermore, are they so much superior that they can almost or actually match Eink screens with regards to eye strain?

Personally, my LCD-monitor is rather old. But there is something, I guess is more common on LCD-devices, personally speaking, namely that I screw up or squint my eyes a little bit while reading or watching it from a close distance. I guess, that some kind of dazzling, because of the backlight, might be the reason. It's not dramatic, it's subtle. Then again, I should try to dim the backlight and see if I stop the little screwing of my eyes. Personally it is a distantly similar effect, if I want to look at something accurately and sharply without my glasses on ( I am shortsighted, but I can read and recognize easily letters in front of a monitor, tablet or reader without my glasses).