10-25-2012, 03:08 AM | #121 | |
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If I go from Sweden to UK, I can buy books and come back in Sweden freely, with absolutely no restriction. And the law does not make any distinction between goods and services. |
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10-25-2012, 03:13 AM | #122 |
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It is. ToS or EULAs cannot override the law of the land. They have to respect them. It is clear that in the EU/ECC goods and service trading cannot be restricted. Car manufacturers have been heavily fined for trying to prevent people to buy cars in another country of the ECC zone. That Amazon has unlawful restrictions with publishers is their problem, not the EU consumer problem. Do you think that when you buy a book in France, the border police takes it back from you?
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10-25-2012, 03:29 AM | #123 | |
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10-25-2012, 04:51 AM | #124 | |
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"The ECJ said last autumn that national laws that prohibit the import, sale or use of foreign decoder cards were contrary to the freedom to provide services." "She took her fight for the right to use the cheaper provider to the European Court of Justice (ECJ) which ruled in October 2011 that having an exclusive system was "contrary to EU law"." I wonder why this should not be applicable to ebooks. Last edited by zeb; 10-25-2012 at 04:56 AM. |
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10-25-2012, 05:04 AM | #125 |
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10-25-2012, 05:56 AM | #126 | |
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10-25-2012, 05:58 AM | #127 |
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Does not mean this is legal in term of EU regulation. That Amazon has restrictions with their supplier is one thing, that they are able to reinforce them on their EU customers is another one. Would be interesting a lawyer clarifies this.
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10-25-2012, 08:10 AM | #128 |
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Why are you talking about customers here? How many time can I say that the seller is not allowed to sell in a specific country and when I buy an ebook in Sweden the sale takes place in Sweden. When I buy a paper book from amazon UK the sale takes place in UK.
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10-25-2012, 09:24 AM | #129 | ||
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I understand they don't want to say how they've identified the two accounts are linked, since people can then use that to tweak how they avoid the rules. That wasn't my point though, my point was, if the reason for account closure was really because she's buying books from a store she's not meant to be and/or working around the systems they have in place to protect that, they should have simply stated that as the reason. They don't need to give detailed information about how they detected that occurring, but they should give enough information that if she knows she's never bought books from that store or the particular book/books names that are not authorised for her country/whatever, there's a reason to suspect a mistake may have been made by Amazon. Without that information, you're left hoping amazon don't make mistakes and every company makes mistakes, especially when automated systems are involved and can trigger flags from something as simple as a data entry issue (which may not be easily spotted by the CS reps but likely would be by the customer). You're also placing doubt into the minds of future customers about, could this happen to me, what if they make a mistake with my account, judging by those emails it'll be an uphill battle to get them to work with me to find out that mistake has been made. Quote:
If it's because your account is linked to another, i.e they're accusing you of having two accounts and breaking T&C with one of them. They should tell you what your other account is (as clearly they believe you're the owner of it otherwise you wouldn't be banned) and what T&C it violated. No need to say how they determined this. That is sufficient information imo to know if you've done something you shouldn't or if Amazon have made a mistake. Last edited by JoeD; 10-25-2012 at 09:38 AM. |
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10-25-2012, 09:33 AM | #130 |
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That is the problem. Following the spirit of the EU laws, such thing should be illegal. Of course, there might be some legal wrangling or temporary exceptions but in general it is illegal in the EU.
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10-25-2012, 11:16 AM | #131 | |
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Also, you'll find that the laws on ebooks are also entirely different than for print books or any physical item (and the UK is it's own entity, despite being in the EU); Germany has price protection laws in effect (still, I believe) that take precedence, for example. Last edited by koland; 10-25-2012 at 11:28 AM. |
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10-25-2012, 11:27 AM | #132 | ||
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One big problem (esp with identity) with online accounts is that if there is a problem, it can be difficult to work thru, as there is no face-to-face transaction possible. Quote:
What you can guarantee is that no one else that tried to call Amazon was likely to get any info at all (nor should Amazon give out such info to third parties). I also doubt she received any information until it was normal working hours and it's obvious that it was quickly cleared up at that point, since she got her book access back, then. Amazon's rules on freezing of an account for investigation have been there for years, long before e-content. And doubtless need to be overhauled, now that they have a lot of content (that they sold and that you've uploaded on your own, for many) hostage. |
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10-25-2012, 12:21 PM | #133 | |
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Now regarding the author's or publisher's restrictions: are they valid in the EU? Furthermore, can they be reinforced against the buyer? If not, not only Amazon has not the right to prevent an EU resident to buy in any Amazon outlet based in the EU (but not in the US, i.e. the .com site), but a fortiori would not have the right to "punish" them on this basis. This is extremely muddy for Amazon to do this. Outside of the EU (USA, Norway), then this does not apply. |
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10-25-2012, 12:23 PM | #134 | |
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Since there's a complete lack of information about why or what it is the person did wrong, they're not even able to offer a suggestion as to why Amazon may have made a mistake. Going back to the specific case this thread is about, it sounds like she's got her account reinstated, so, was it a mistake on Amazon's part or had she broken T&C but they've given her the benefit of the doubt? Although I guess we may never know as Amazon likely haven't even told her, happy to be proven wrong though as I've not bothered to google for updates Still, beating a dead horse really as Amazon won't change their practice and we're all, ok, perhaps not everyone, but most still going to buy from them despite this (as long as DRM can be stripped). Just hope we never reach the day when I'm posting on here to say Amazon just closed my account and won't tell me why Last edited by JoeD; 10-25-2012 at 12:31 PM. |
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10-25-2012, 12:31 PM | #135 | |
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On the side of "some evidence" that they didn't make a mistake, there is the fact that Amazon is a successful company with many happy repeat customers, and you do not reach and maintain that status by making a habit of arbitrarily stopping your customers from buying stuff from you, or by allowing a pattern of mistakes resulting in that to go uncorrected. ApK |
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