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Old 03-24-2019, 08:58 AM   #76
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It was 1990-ish when I saw it so I only remember the uniqueness of the experience and the atmosphere of the venue. However here is a tally of the choices from a recent Broadway revival. It appears Rosa Bud was the most popular choice of killer!
http://www.playbill.com/article/they...too-com-203296
Thanks--that's reallly interesting. Looks like Rosa was the choice more than half the time.

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I agree. I never seriously considered her a suspect. I wonder if there is something about the way the musical is written/acted that makes the audience choose this path.
Well, if the character on stage was as annoying as the one in the book, I can see the audience wanting to make her the villain on general principle.
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Old 03-27-2019, 12:46 PM   #77
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Why would Jasper haunt Neville’s London hideout for months, if he didn’t think Neville had killed Edwin? I could see a certain amount of that, for appearance’s sake, to cast off suspicion from himself. But even going so far as to hire other people to spy on Neville 24/7? It seems rather extreme. Is there another reason than Dickens keeping the option of an innocent Jasper / guilty Neville open?
The reason that occurred to me is that it was his morbid jealousy of Rosa. Knowing that Neville also loved her, Jasper monitored him to make sure Rosa didn't see him. Presumably he wanted Neville alive as a suspect, just in case; otherwise he might have killed him also, as he (thought he'd?) killed Edwin.
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Old 03-27-2019, 08:41 PM   #78
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That makes sense, especially as Neville was living close to Mr Grewgious, who could be (and of course was) visited by Rosa.

In some ways it's fun trying to guess how the story would have played out, and in others, it's frustrating that we don't know what Dickens was intending.
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Old 03-28-2019, 02:46 PM   #79
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The reason that occurred to me is that it was his morbid jealousy of Rosa. Knowing that Neville also loved her, Jasper monitored him to make sure Rosa didn't see him. Presumably he wanted Neville alive as a suspect, just in case; otherwise he might have killed him also, as he (thought he'd?) killed Edwin.
Ahh - that makes sense! Thank you - it niggled me, like Dickens was off his game on this point

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That makes sense, especially as Neville was living close to Mr Grewgious, who could be (and of course was) visited by Rosa.

In some ways it's fun trying to guess how the story would have played out, and in others, it's frustrating that we don't know what Dickens was intending.
I found it frustrating when it ended too. After struggling through it, I wanted Dickens to pull the pieces together.

But after reading more about it; how it was released as a serial, etc, it seems that the guesswork and everyones pet theories were meant to be part of the fun, rather than just an artifact of his dying.
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Old 03-28-2019, 06:20 PM   #80
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Yes, his serials were hugely popular. There is a story - I don’t know if it’s true, but it ought to be - that when The Old Curiosity Shop was at a critical stage for Little Nell, winter storms in the Atlantic stopped the ships from sailing across with the next part of the serial. When the ship finally arrived in New York, the wharves were packed with people, calling up to the people on the ship “Did she die?”
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Old 03-30-2019, 10:21 AM   #81
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[...] In some ways it's fun trying to guess how the story would have played out, and in others, it's frustrating that we don't know what Dickens was intending.
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[...] I found it frustrating when it ended too. After struggling through it, I wanted Dickens to pull the pieces together.

But after reading more about it; how it was released as a serial, etc, it seems that the guesswork and everyones pet theories were meant to be part of the fun, rather than just an artifact of his dying.
I've never been one to put much effort into trying to solve murder mysteries before the end. I'm generally happiest just going along for the ride and letting the protagonist(s) do the work. Which is one of the reasons why I have never tried to read this book before; not much in it for me. Of course, reading as part of a discussion such as this changes things, and offers more satisfaction and enjoyment than I could have hoped for from the book alone.
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Old 03-30-2019, 12:27 PM   #82
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Yes, his serials were hugely popular. There is a story - I don’t know if it’s true, but it ought to be - that when The Old Curiosity Shop was at a critical stage for Little Nell, winter storms in the Atlantic stopped the ships from sailing across with the next part of the serial. When the ship finally arrived in New York, the wharves were packed with people, calling up to the people on the ship “Did she die?”
Yes, I can remember reading that somewhere decades ago. Some of the people waiting on the wharf were probably printer's devils, waiting to grab a copy to recopy. That's one of the reasons Dickens went on lecture tours in The U.S. - so he could get the revenue from performances that couldn't be pirated.

Here is an article from The Atlantic about the renaissance of serialization, that starts with a similar annecdote:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...riller/309235/
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Old 03-30-2019, 04:17 PM   #83
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Yes, his serials were hugely popular. There is a story - I don’t know if it’s true, but it ought to be - that when The Old Curiosity Shop was at a critical stage for Little Nell, winter storms in the Atlantic stopped the ships from sailing across with the next part of the serial. When the ship finally arrived in New York, the wharves were packed with people, calling up to the people on the ship “Did she die?”
What a great story!

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I've never been one to put much effort into trying to solve murder mysteries before the end. I'm generally happiest just going along for the ride and letting the protagonist(s) do the work. Which is one of the reasons why I have never tried to read this book before; not much in it for me.

Of course, reading as part of a discussion such as this changes things, and offers more satisfaction and enjoyment than I could have hoped for from the book alone.
I completely agree with you. I’ve enjoyed this discussion, and it’s definitely increased my appreciation of this book.

This is the first book club I’ve participated in - second month. Both times, I’ve been surprised by how differently everyone experiences the same book. And I wasn’t expecting how much the discussions would change my own perspective on the author, characters, plot etc. Some of my opinions have been completely turned around. Very enriching.
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Old 03-30-2019, 04:29 PM   #84
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Yes, I can remember reading that somewhere decades ago. Some of the people waiting on the wharf were probably printer's devils, waiting to grab a copy to recopy. That's one of the reasons Dickens went on lecture tours in The U.S. - so he could get the revenue from performances that couldn't be pirated.

Here is an article from The Atlantic about the renaissance of serialization, that starts with a similar annecdote:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...riller/309235/
Thanks - great article. Reminds me of the old “Who shot J.R.?” campaign from the American tv series Dallas.
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Old 03-30-2019, 05:46 PM   #85
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Thanks for the link to the article, bfisher. When I think about it, I do try to do different things at different times of the day, because I found after I retired that I seemed to be doing less reading than when I was working, because I was letting various interests and activities take over my time. So I decided that I would set time for reading after lunch each day, and that has worked for me pretty well.
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Old 03-30-2019, 05:49 PM   #86
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I completely agree with you. I’ve enjoyed this discussion, and it’s definitely increased my appreciation of this book.

This is the first book club I’ve participated in - second month. Both times, I’ve been surprised by how differently everyone experiences the same book. And I wasn’t expecting how much the discussions would change my own perspective on the author, characters, plot etc. Some of my opinions have been completely turned around. Very enriching.
I’m so glad you are enjoying the discussions, Victoria. It’s great to have you in the Club!

I do agree with you and gmw that I got a lot more out of the book because of our discussion than I would have done just reading it on my own.
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Old 03-31-2019, 12:05 PM   #87
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I do agree with you and gmw that I got a lot more out of the book because of our discussion than I would have done just reading it on my own.
And it's not just that I get more out of it, I put more into it, if I can make that distinction. I tend to bomb my way through books, but when it's the book for the club, I make a conscious effort to consider what I'm reading and I take notes for reference. I think about them more when I'm not reading them, also. So in addition to benefiting from others' insights and analyses, I put more effort into it up front.

As for serialization, I'll note that I don't watch television as a matter of course, although I've caught the odd series over the years. But I'm flummoxed when I see that "binge watching" is a thing, that people will watch a whole season of a show in the course of a weekend! I truly don't get it. I think you miss a lot of fun that way, by gobbling the episodes like popcorn.
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Old 03-31-2019, 01:54 PM   #88
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As for serialization, I'll note that I don't watch television as a matter of course, although I've caught the odd series over the years. But I'm flummoxed when I see that "binge watching" is a thing, that people will watch a whole season of a show in the course of a weekend! I truly don't get it. I think you miss a lot of fun that way, by gobbling the episodes like popcorn.
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Old 03-31-2019, 06:01 PM   #89
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Aw, I wanted to give you some popcorn karma Catlady, but the system wouldn’t let me do it. Thanks for the laugh.

Yes issybird, I agree that I get more out of a book club book for the same reason. I make notes of what seem to be important plot points or character developments, and I think about the book more between reading sessions than I might do with books I am reading just for my pleasure.
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Old 03-31-2019, 06:46 PM   #90
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And keep thinking about it long after - as shown by how posts keep showing up on these these threads after the main conversation seems to have finished.
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