Tag browser & status bar suggestions

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by chaley

Suggestions?

Hesitant to make any as I can't anticipate technical limitations, then there's the perennial problem of user acceptance of UI changes. But I'll have a go:

• Put the Find feature (text box and search button) above TB tree;
• Leave the Configure button at the bottom of the TB (full width);
• Merge the whitespace context menu into the Configure menu;
• Remove the Manage authors, tags etc item - it's more accessible elsewhere

Sure. There is certainly no harm in having that list, especially if it has vote counts.

Too many items for a poll, I'll create a separate thread and invite replies.

Another option is that someone take over maintenance of Job Spy.

Buckleys/Snowball's

BR - have nice day

[chaley]

@BetterRed:

• What and where is the "whitespace context menu?
• Why remove things? Discoverability is a constant problem, which is why some things are repeated in different places. Inability to find calibre features is one reason I would like to see "All GUI actions" on the default new-user toolbar.

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by chaley

@BetterRed:

What and where is the "whitespace context menu?

This one:



AFAIK: It's is only accessible a) if you have some unused space in the Tag Browser window, and b) via the use of a right button mouse click.

Originally Posted by chaley

Why remove things? Discoverability is a constant problem, which is why some things are repeated in different places. Inability to find calibre features is one reason I would like to see "All GUI actions" on the default new-user toolbar.

I see it as historical clutter*. In early calibre the Manage category menu could only be accessed via what was then the "Alter Tag Browser" button. It is now available via Toolbars and menus, and via a keyboard shortcut (I have it in the Book list context menu and via Ctrl+Shift+C); in addition individual category dialogues are available via the category item context menus in the Tag Browser and Book details.

*Likewise: the Create catalogue in Conversion… I would scrap it too.

I was about to suggest scrapping the Layout button in the status bar but I have a better idea - put Preferences in the status bar and remove the "Preferences must be in the main toolbar or menu" restriction, and put your All GUI actions there too.

Added: But Preferences, Layout, All GUI actions would be still available in Toolbars and menus and Keyboard shortcuts as they are now… and why not Jobs too.

BR

[chaley]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

This one:

Attachment 212910

AFAIK: It's is only accessible a) if you have some unused space in the Tag Browser window, and b) via the use of a right button mouse click.

Thanks.
At the moment that context menu shouldn't be fully removed. It is possible to 'hide' all categories in the tag browser, resulting in an empty space. At that point the only way to show some category is to go to Preferences / Look & feel / Tag browser and check at least one category. The context menu for that category will have the "Show category" context menu where you can select other categories.

I think the other two, Change subcategorization scheme and Expand, could be removed. I'm not yet convinced it is worth the trouble or resulting confusion.

I see it as historical clutter*. In early calibre the Manage category menu could only be accessed via what was then the "Alter Tag Browser" button. It is now available via Toolbars and menus, and via a keyboard shortcut (I have it in the Book list context menu and via Ctrl+Shift+C); in addition individual category dialogues are available via the category item context menus in the Tag Browser and Book details.

So removing this clutter is worth annoying users that expect to find it there? It is there by default, no toolbar or context menu adaptation necessary, so I expect that many people do use it.

*Likewise: the Create catalogue in Conversion… I would scrap it too.

This I don't agree with. It needs to be somewhere by default so that a user can be directed to it. Between enhancement requests and forum posts, I think we get a question weekly about how to make a catalog, in particular CSV ones. Having "All GUI actions" somewhere by default would solve that problem.

I was about to suggest scrapping the Layout button in the status bar but I have a better idea - put Preferences in the status bar and remove the "Preferences must be in the main toolbar or menu" restriction, and put your All GUI actions there too.

This is another example of "It it isn't there it isn't anywhere."

Added: But Preferences, Layout, All GUI actions would be still available in Toolbars and menus and Keyboard shortcuts as they are now… and why not Jobs too.

Interesting idea. EDIT: I took a quick look at using the status bar for general tool buttons such as preferences and all gui layouts. It isn't easy, to the point where any benefit exceeds the work required. It isn't clear that it is even possible without major surgery to put an action-based item (preferences etc) on that toolbar. "Layout actions" was done in reverse: the action code uses stuff deep-down in calibre's initialization to implement the action. I was wrong. Adding permanent action-based buttons to the status bar is straight-forward.

I'll think further, but one fundamental rule for me is that something that is "there by default" today must still be "there by default" tomorrow, not requiring the user to add an action to something. Moving things around might be reasonable but would incure a cost for everyone used to where the "thing" is now. Of course, Kovid would make the final decision on any of this.

[chaley]

Moderator Notice
Made into its own thread

[chaley]

I've played a bit with putting buttons on the status line and have something I think I like. I'm still working on details.

@Kovid: is it worth submitting a PR? This could easily be a "Nope" for you. I could do the PR so before you decide you can see what is being touched.

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by chaley

I've played a bit with putting buttons on the status line and have something I think I like. I'm still working on details.

that's exactly what I had in my mind's eye.

BR

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by chaley

Thanks.
At the moment that context menu shouldn't be fully removed. It is possible to 'hide' all categories in the tag browser, resulting in an empty space. At that point the only way to show some category is to go to Preferences / Look & feel / Tag browser and check at least one category. The context menu for that category will have the "Show category" context menu where you can select other categories.

What I suggested was to move the three items in the whitespace context menu into the Configuration menu, the first of which would be Show category like so:



If all categories were already shown there'd be no Show category flyout menu and maybe it could be greyed out. Maybe I'm missing something.

Originally Posted by chaley

I think the other two, Change subcategorization scheme and Expand, could be removed. I'm not yet convinced it is worth the trouble or resulting confusion.

So removing this clutter is worth annoying users that expect to find it there? It is there by default, no toolbar or context menu adaptation necessary, so I expect that many people do use it.
This I don't agree with. It needs to be somewhere by default so that a user can be directed to it. Between enhancement requests and forum posts, I think we get a question weekly about how to make a catalog, in particular CSV ones. Having "All GUI actions" somewhere by default would solve that problem.

If a user removes the Convert books tools from the toolbars/menus and uses a shortcut to Convert books then they have no means to get at Create catalogue - who might do that, me for a start.

Calibre has lots of features that don't have a 'home', Polish boots, Browse annotations, Open book folder, Mark books to name a few. I fail to see any inherent connection between converting file formats and creating a list of books.

Originally Posted by chaley

I'll think further, but one fundamental rule for me is that something that is "there by default" today must still be "there by default" tomorrow, not requiring the user to add an action to something. Moving things around might be reasonable but would incure a cost for everyone used to where the "thing" is now. Of course, Kovid would make the final decision on any of this.

I am pretty sure I have a much higher tolerance to UI changes than most people, another ramification of getting old I guess

You didn't respond to my suggestion of putting the Tag browser Search bar at the top of the TB window and leaving the Configuration button at the bottom - roughly:



Would then be similar to the main window - search bar at top, configure at bottom.

BR

[Comfy.n]

A bit off-topic, but since we're talking about the status line, may I suggest that the tag browser button be placed on the first left to right position?



I sometimes click the search button when I actually intend to click the tag browser one...

[chaley]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

If a user removes the Convert books tools from the toolbars/menus and uses a shortcut to Convert books then they have no means to get at Create catalogue - who might do that, me for a start.

Calibre has lots of features that don't have a 'home', Polish boots, Browse annotations, Open book folder, Mark books to name a few. I fail to see any inherent connection between converting file formats and creating a list of books.

I'm not concerned someone knowing how to change the toolbar. They're miles ahead because they have seen the list of actions available when editing a toolbar. At minimum they know it is there.

What I'm worried about is discoverability. We spend a large amount of time pointing people to stuff that already exists but haven't found or perhaps haven't been looked for. It feels that more and more people ask instead of searching. If "things" are accessible without changing the toolbar then we are ahead because we can say "Click there and do that" instead of "Put this on a toolbar then ...". This is why I want the "All GUI actions" somewhere by default.

I am pretty sure I have a much higher tolerance to UI changes than most people, another ramification of getting old I guess

My experience as someone who changes the UI from time to time: even moving a period in a phrase can provoke comments/complaints. These all cost time and mental energy. Time I have more of. Mental energy I have less and less of.

You didn't respond to my suggestion of putting the Tag browser Search bar at the top of the TB window and leaving the Configuration button at the bottom - roughly:

Attachment 212950

Would then be similar to the main window - search bar at top, configure at bottom.

This feels a lot like "Do it this way because I like it." Others might say "Don't change it." Others might want the opposite of what you suggest. Others (like me actually) might say "Get rid of them completely." I'm still considering whether proposing/implementing a change is worth the cost.

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by Comfy.n

A bit off-topic, but since we're talking about the status line, may I suggest that the tag browser button be placed on the first left to right position?

Attachment 212953

I sometimes click the search button when I actually intend to click the tag browser one...

IMO the Search button should have been be at the other end, on the basis that it's the window that users are least likely to want to to hide and show. But in this instance familiarity should win - IMO.

I use shortcuts for the panels that I do hide and show Ctrl+Alt+T/D/G/Q.

BR

[chaley]

Originally Posted by Comfy.n

A bit off-topic, but since we're talking about the status line, may I suggest that the tag browser button be placed on the first left to right position?

They only way to satisfy requests like this is to make the order optional. Sorry, but I'm not going to go there.

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by chaley

. . .
It feels that more and more people ask instead of searching. If "things" are accessible without changing the toolbar then we are ahead because we can say "Click there and do that" instead of "Put this on a toolbar then ...". This is why I want the "All GUI actions" somewhere by default.

I've had the same feeling, maybe something to do with ChatGPT and such… "If Chuck-E doesn't know then I'd better ask someone else."

I'm hoping Kovid will give a green light to putting Pref's and All GUI's on the status line.

[kovidgoyal]

Originally Posted by chaley

I've played a bit with putting buttons on the status line and have something I think I like. I'm still working on details.

@Kovid: is it worth submitting a PR? This could easily be a "Nope" for you. I could do the PR so before you decide you can see what is being touched.

Not a fan of more buttons in the status bar its crowded enough already. Preferences button is available in the toolbar always anyway. It's button number 6 in the default layout IIRC which means the window would have to be *really* narrow for it to be hidden. Of course the user can hide it manually but that is relatively rare and I dont think it warrants crowding the status bar for everyone to cater to that. The way to deal with that is to make it programatically impossible to hide the preferences button, just prevent it from being hidden in the preferences panel. That leaves only users that hand edit config files or source code trying to hide it.

As for all actions, I dont think its that useful. Most people are not going to read a hundred+ item long list and find what they are looking for.

[chaley]

Hmmm... My original reply went away.

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

Not a fan of more buttons in the status bar its crowded enough already.

I was going to propose not putting Preferences there because it is available from "All actions". That would reduce some clutter.

Preferences button is available in the toolbar always anyway. It's button number 6 in the default layout IIRC which means the window would have to be *really* narrow for it to be hidden.

This is a screen capture of a new install of portable 7.2 (I had it lying around) on my preferred 1280x1024 monitor. You can see that the Preferences button is in the overflow area, which effectively means it is gone.

As for all actions, I dont think its that useful. Most people are not going to read a hundred+ item long list and find what they are looking for.

Here I disagree for several reasons:

• Not counting plugins, there are some 40-50 tools (actions), not a hundred+.
• Some people will look at what is available before asking for help, saving us all some time. That might provoke "What does X do?" questions, but I think that is OK.
• As I said before, having "All actions" simplifies things for "support". One can answer "Click here then click there" without having to get into toolbar & menu management.
• The "missing preferences" problem is solved, albeit in a round-about way.
• A more advanced case and one that I use: there are many plugins and tools that I use once in a blue moon. I'm continuously fighting with the toolbar to avoid the overflow area, which is difficult for me to use for mobility reasons. Having "All actions" lets me get to all the plugins/tools while taking one toolbar slot. Putting "All actions" in the status bar gives me back that slot.

So, two questions:

• Given the above, would you permit me putting "All actions" on the status bar?
• If not, would you permit a default-off option in Look & feel to enable the button?

If the answers are no and no then as I always run from source I'll keep the changes in my repo. There aren't many changes: a new class and a few lines of code in init.py and two lines in ui.py.