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Old 12-08-2009, 10:43 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Propheous View Post
What this means is that you can transfer it to any device that is capable of reading the format (which I think is epub can someone confirm?) and enter the password and read it.
The format is either ePub or eReader. If it is ePub, then currently only other Nooks can read it (they are the only ones with credit card based DRM for ePub). It isn't yet clear when B&N will update their existing apps (Windows, Mac, iPhone, BlackBerry) to handle ePub in addition to eReader. Until then, presumably you will be able to download an eReader version even if the Nook is using an ePub version.
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Old 12-09-2009, 01:17 AM   #17
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:11 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Propheous View Post
What this means is that you can transfer it to any device that is capable of reading the format (which I think is epub can someone confirm?) and enter the password and read it.
If I'm understanding this correctly, then the one practical difference between the two DRM systems is (I think) that a nook-epub file could theoretically be used in any reading scheme that supports the epub/social DRM framework, whether it's B&N blessed or not, as long as the user has the CC# to unlock it.

Within each company's infrastructure, the behavior is identical, because the infrastructure itself handles the details in the background and masks the differences.

Yes?
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:25 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by jasonkchapman View Post
If I'm understanding this correctly, then the one practical difference between the two DRM systems is (I think) that a nook-epub file could theoretically be used in any reading scheme that supports the epub/social DRM framework, whether it's B&N blessed or not, as long as the user has the CC# to unlock it.

Within each company's infrastructure, the behavior is identical, because the infrastructure itself handles the details in the background and masks the differences.

Yes?
That's the way I read it.
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:13 AM   #20
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That is correct, including the B&N software for the PC.
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:26 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by wallcraft View Post
The format is either ePub or eReader. If it is ePub, then currently only other Nooks can read it (they are the only ones with credit card based DRM for ePub). It isn't yet clear when B&N will update their existing apps (Windows, Mac, iPhone, BlackBerry) to handle ePub in addition to eReader. Until then, presumably you will be able to download an eReader version even if the Nook is using an ePub version.
As I understand it, Adobe is suppose to be incorporating the ereader drm into their product early next year and it will be up to the individual venders who license Adobe ADE to implement it or not..

There is then the potential for any device that has Adobe ADE to read B&N Epub DRM...
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Old 12-09-2009, 09:36 AM   #22
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I am doing more research into the B&N side as its hard to tell if you can physically back up files. You can archive things in the software but not sure what this does.

The file format seems to be confirmed as e-reader format.

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Originally Posted by kindlekitten View Post
the Kindle can be trasnferred and go off the account to another user. and yes, the books are permanently and always mine
This is a semantic argument. As long as you require the Amazon servers to distribute the books to specific devices you do not own the books but have leased them. You can not in any way use your books with out the Assistance of Amazon at this point because the device itself is apart of their DRM scheme. Which means you can not in anyway transfer items off the device to use in another device.

Until that gets fixed make no mistake about who owns your books.

There is even an ugly rumor that Amazon can yank books from your collection that they no longer support or are out of print. Seems a bit of a stretch, so I only report as a rumor.
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Old 12-09-2009, 10:11 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Kolenka View Post
With the Kindle, it gets the serial number registered to your Amazon account when it ships. This ties the device to the account automatically, and the store/DRM servers all work based on this serial number. ...The downside is that because authorization is on the server side, people will start losing access to their content after the servers die (say your Kindle dies, you find a replacement, but it can't be authorized).
No, you are wrong here. When a book is downloaded from Amazon for a kindle, it needs to know WHICH kindle because it keys the book file in such a way that it will only work on THAT kindle. No further communication with any server is ever needed. If Amazon, or the internet, cease to exist, or I deregister the kindle, that book file will always work on that kindle. The downside is that the book file will not work on another kindle. If you own more than one kindle or share your account, Amazon allows you to download a book file that has been keyed for each kindle.
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Old 12-09-2009, 10:15 AM   #24
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He's saying that validation happens in the background, ala "logging in," "calling home," et. al. Just because you're not doing it doesn't mean the device isn't doing it in the background.
You're wrong. No book validation is done, ever, in the background or otherwise. When you buy a book at Amazon and want to send the book to your kindle (wirelessly or via USB), Amazon needs to know WHICH kindle (if you have more than one on your account) the book is for so that it can key the book file so that it only works on THAT kindle. Once the book is on your kindle (or even, once the book is downloaded to your PC for use on your kindle), no further validation is needed ever. Amazon could go belly up, all computers on the planet (other than your kindle, if you consider it a computer) could be destroyed, the internet and cell phone towers destroyed, and that book file will always work on that kindle.
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Old 12-09-2009, 10:16 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by vermontcathy View Post
No, you are wrong here. When a book is downloaded from Amazon for a kindle, it needs to know WHICH kindle because it keys the book file in such a way that it will only work on THAT kindle. No further communication with any server is ever needed. If Amazon, or the internet, cease to exist, or I deregister the kindle, that book file will always work on that kindle. The downside is that the book file will not work on another kindle. If you own more than one kindle or share your account, Amazon allows you to download a book file that has been keyed for each kindle.
Totally absolutely correct. You don't need to contact Amazon once its downloaded and authorized for that device.

I just spent about 15 minutes testing out the B&N format and moving files and I am happy to report that it works 100% on the software. The gentleman at tech support I was talking with confirmed that it will work on the nook as well through the usb/sd card.

EDIT -> I should point out that I called tech support to report a bug with the software in that if you copy the pdb files to the My BN eBooks folder and then try to load them it doesn't work you have to add them to that directory through the software in the My Stuff section using the Add New Item button.

This means you can back up any and all e-book files from B&N and then reload them into the software or device *REGARDLESS* of whether you have registered that device to your account, or signed in on the account or have access to B&N. You just need to enter your username and password for the individual book.

This is a HUGE thing for me. It means if a new device comes out I don't have to download anything I just copy it over and bam it all works. It also means I can put these files away for safe keeping and if B&N ever goes under I can use the files on any reader that supports the e-reader format with this drm.

The gentleman also stated that it works the same way for periodicals. Though I have yet to fully confirm that.
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Old 12-09-2009, 10:20 AM   #26
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A kindle is tethered to an account. I am not completely sure if you can untether it either, though it may be possible.

...
What this means is that I can buy a Nook use for a year then reset it to factory default give it to my grandma and she can go on her marry way. No ties to me or my content.
You are wrong. The kindle is not tethered to an account and you can sever the connection at any time. You do not understand how the kindle works. Once I buy a book from Amazon and download the UNIQUE book file that will only work on my kindle (based on an internal PIN number), I can deregister my kindle from that account and never use it again. I could buy every book using a different account if I want. No further communication/connection with Amazon is ever needed, under any circumstances, for that book to work on that kindle.

In fact, if I want to sell my kindle, I can deregister it from my account, but LEAVE ALL THE BOOKS ON IT for the person who buys it.
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Old 12-09-2009, 10:21 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vermontcathy View Post
No, you are wrong here. When a book is downloaded from Amazon for a kindle, it needs to know WHICH kindle because it keys the book file in such a way that it will only work on THAT kindle. No further communication with any server is ever needed. If Amazon, or the internet, cease to exist, or I deregister the kindle, that book file will always work on that kindle. The downside is that the book file will not work on another kindle. If you own more than one kindle or share your account, Amazon allows you to download a book file that has been keyed for each kindle.
Either I misread Kolenka's post or you did. As I read it, the server Kolenka referred to was the content server from which the book was downloaded. That's the point at which the file is keyed. I didn't see a reference to any further contact with a server.
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Old 12-09-2009, 10:24 AM   #28
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This is a HUGE thing for me. It means if a new device comes out I don't have to download anything I just copy it over and bam it all works. It also means I can put these files away for safe keeping and if B&N ever goes under I can use the files on any reader that supports the e-reader format with this drm.

And this is makes me very happy to have chosen a nook.
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Old 12-09-2009, 10:31 AM   #29
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And this is makes me very happy to have chosen a nook.
It's true that each system has it's advantages. Yes, you can copy your nook book files to a new device, but to get them to work, you need to know the credit card number used to buy them. You better keep careful records! What if you have used more than one credit card over the years? What if you used a gift card to buy the book (I haven't seen an answer to this)? What if someone else bought the book for you as a gift (not sure if this is possible, but you'd want it to be eventually, right?). You will have to keep a record of every book and the credit card number used to purchase the book.

PLUS, and here's where I prefer the kindle method, even keeping the book on the same nook, you will have to enter that credit card number if you deregister your nook. So, if you and a friend decide to share an account from now on, or for whatever reason, you deregister your nook from your account, you will have to enter all those credit card numbers again. I prefer knowing that the books I've bought for my kindle will always work on my kindle no matter what, no matter how I register or deregister the kindle.

Again, both methods have their pros and cons. I just hope you're keeping really good records of your CC numbers you've used.
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Old 12-09-2009, 11:23 AM   #30
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It's true that each system has it's advantages. Yes, you can copy your nook book files to a new device, but to get them to work, you need to know the credit card number used to buy them. You better keep careful records! What if you have used more than one credit card over the years? What if you used a gift card to buy the book (I haven't seen an answer to this)? What if someone else bought the book for you as a gift (not sure if this is possible, but you'd want it to be eventually, right?). You will have to keep a record of every book and the credit card number used to purchase the book.
It's actually the credit card registered to the account at the time you download it to the device. So you can redownload all your books after registering with a different card and the password has changed. Its in the FAQ on the website.
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