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Old 08-10-2009, 08:29 AM   #16
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The issue isn't the format itself but the ecosystem around it.
Formats are just specifications; ink on paper if even that.

Comparing ePub to Mobi is comparing a format without dictionaries to one with.

One that has been around for maybe a year and requires you to in effect roll your own to get a good reading experience on the crappy ADE app on Hanlin, vs one that has been around for ages and is broadly supported.
ePub is simply immature as is the Hanlin ADE release.

Now, take ePub out of ADE, either with the earlier mobi-supporting firmwares or OpenInkpot and you have a usable format.

But mobi is simply more functional "out-of-box" *today*.
Plus, as a legacy format that has been around for ages it is something that a lot of early adopters have on hand and works everywhere. no repackaging or bending over backwards required.

Add in that up to this very moment most of the Hanlin vendors are still hyping Mobi format support as a reason to buy their product, to then turn around and say "oh, we changed our mind" is bound to annoy some folks.

Last edited by fjtorres; 08-10-2009 at 08:32 AM.
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Old 08-10-2009, 08:38 AM   #17
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Beside the fact what JSWolf mentioned (already owning DRM'd mobipocket books), there is also the amount of OS's supported. So far, epub is only available on linux devices. I can't read epub on my reading devices, which are Windows Mobile and Windows CE based.
Give a look to Zulu Reader. I have it installed on my Win-based PDA, and it's early in development, but it works well!

ePub has so much more potential than the other existing formats to develop further, and to last longer. As it's HTML-based, there's no reason it shouldn't be available for absolutely every OS. It's still new to the table, give it time.

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Old 08-10-2009, 08:44 AM   #18
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Comparing ePub to Mobi is comparing a format without dictionaries to one with.

One that has been around for maybe a year and requires you to in effect roll your own to get a good reading experience on the crappy ADE app on Hanlin, vs one that has been around for ages and is broadly supported.
ePub is simply immature as is the Hanlin ADE release.

Now, take ePub out of ADE, either with the earlier mobi-supporting firmwares or OpenInkpot and you have a usable format.

But mobi is simply more functional "out-of-box" *today*.
Plus, as a legacy format that has been around for ages it is something that a lot of early adopters have on hand and works everywhere. no repackaging or bending over backwards required.

Add in that up to this very moment most of the Hanlin vendors are still hyping Mobi format support as a reason to buy their product, to then turn around and say "oh, we changed our mind" is bound to annoy some folks.
Most of this I agree with. Unfortunately, Amazon's purchase of Mobi may put a serious crimp in further development, allowing other formats (like ePub) to catch up to its popularity and utility. Before ePub came along, I would have said, "Let's everybody go with Mobipocket." But in the present atmosphere, it seems Mobi is about to become locked-down and proprietary... let's pass, and go with ePub.
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Old 08-10-2009, 09:06 AM   #19
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That's good to know. Openinkpot is one of the reasons I bought this reader, so I'd like it to be a real option.

Thanks.
Yeah as above, the live version can be pretty unstable.

Just flash it and have a play, you can always go back if you don't like it as the flashing process on the Hanlin is pretty simple. It's very stable on mine and I've tried lots of firmware versions but keep going back to it.
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Old 08-10-2009, 09:33 AM   #20
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But mobi is simply more functional "out-of-box" *today*.
I am seeing from most of the replies that support (especially for purchased books) is why people prefer other formats. What I don't see is "more functional". Let me explain what I mean by functional.

When I tried to put the Bible on my reader, tried various formats to get a copy of the bible that was usable (by usable, I mean able to get to any chapter quickly and be able to read comfortably). The only format that allowed me to accomplish those goals was epub. Despite the implication of the screens in calibre, I was only able to get a working multi level TOC out of epub. The fb2 format created a single large file that choked my reader (rebooted itself or required a reset) and the mobi format only gave me a single level TOC.

One question I have is, did I miss something in formats like mobi that would allow a multi layer TOC? If not, I'm pretty sure I will be sticking with EPUB for my own work since there does not seem to be any reason not to (at least not for me).

Now maybe the next rom version will allow me to rotate and epub and I will be even happier.
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Old 08-10-2009, 09:37 AM   #21
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Yeah as above, the live version can be pretty unstable.

Just flash it and have a play, you can always go back if you don't like it as the flashing process on the Hanlin is pretty simple. It's very stable on mine and I've tried lots of firmware versions but keep going back to it.
I definitely will be trying this at some point. What has stopped me so far is not wanting to loose any capabilities that I'm currently using. I tried the live version with the hope of seeing if my documents would all be usable under openinkpot. Unfortunately, I have not gotten my answer yet.

I'll bite the bullet soon and give the flashed version a shot. Thanks for the input.
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Old 08-10-2009, 09:43 AM   #22
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I am seeing from most of the replies that support (especially for purchased books) is why people prefer other formats. What I don't see is "more functional". Let me explain what I mean by functional.

When I tried to put the Bible on my reader, tried various formats to get a copy of the bible that was usable (by usable, I mean able to get to any chapter quickly and be able to read comfortably). The only format that allowed me to accomplish those goals was epub. Despite the implication of the screens in calibre, I was only able to get a working multi level TOC out of epub. The fb2 format created a single large file that choked my reader (rebooted itself or required a reset) and the mobi format only gave me a single level TOC.

One question I have is, did I miss something in formats like mobi that would allow a multi layer TOC? If not, I'm pretty sure I will be sticking with EPUB for my own work since there does not seem to be any reason not to (at least not for me).
If MobiCreator generated a TOC for you (and it's complete), then editing the file it gave you is tedious but not difficult. You can give that file the appearance of a multilevel TOC.

But it sounds like you used calibre. You in effect automated the conversion, so that might be the reason it didn't turn out very well.
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Old 08-10-2009, 09:47 AM   #23
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One question I have is, did I miss something in formats like mobi that would allow a multi layer TOC? If not, I'm pretty sure I will be sticking with EPUB for my own work since there does not seem to be any reason not to (at least not for me).
Take a look at some of my Mobi omnibus editions of books. They have a "Book Index" at the start. Clicking an item in that takes you to the start of that book, which has its own table of contents. You have to create that kind of thing by hand - an automated tool isn't going to do it for you.
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Old 08-10-2009, 09:52 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by hyegeek View Post
I am seeing from most of the replies that support (especially for purchased books) is why people prefer other formats. What I don't see is "more functional". Let me explain what I mean by functional.

When I tried to put the Bible on my reader, tried various formats to get a copy of the bible that was usable (by usable, I mean able to get to any chapter quickly and be able to read comfortably). The only format that allowed me to accomplish those goals was epub. Despite the implication of the screens in calibre, I was only able to get a working multi level TOC out of epub. The fb2 format created a single large file that choked my reader (rebooted itself or required a reset) and the mobi format only gave me a single level TOC.

One question I have is, did I miss something in formats like mobi that would allow a multi layer TOC? If not, I'm pretty sure I will be sticking with EPUB for my own work since there does not seem to be any reason not to (at least not for me).

Now maybe the next rom version will allow me to rotate and epub and I will be even happier.
You may need to try various versions in the same format. It took me 3 tries in mobi before I found a Bible that was formatted in such a way that worked for me.
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Old 08-10-2009, 09:58 AM   #25
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But it sounds like you used calibre. You in effect automated the conversion, so that might be the reason it didn't turn out very well.
My (possibly incorrect) assumption was that converting the same source with the same rules in calibre would produce similar documents in the different formats. This may turn out to be a calibre issue, but being new to all of this, I don't have a clue.
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Old 08-10-2009, 10:09 AM   #26
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You have to create that kind of thing by hand - an automated tool isn't going to do it for you.
So if I correctly understand what you are saying, mobi can do a type of multilevel TOC, but would take me more work.
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Old 08-10-2009, 10:11 AM   #27
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You may need to try various versions in the same format. It took me 3 tries in mobi before I found a Bible that was formatted in such a way that worked for me.
I'm curious to know what that formatting is. I am not sure the one I have chosen is the best, but it is functional.
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Old 08-10-2009, 10:24 AM   #28
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I'm curious to know what that formatting is. I am not sure the one I have chosen is the best, but it is functional.
There are people who have formatted/created their own version of the Bible as you have. Some are better than others in the way they've set up the navigation to make it easier to get to where you want to go. The one I like best (so far, I download any free versions I come across) was created by Diana Mecum. You can read a description of her navigation set-up here.

Though this is a Kindle specific Bible, if you aren't happy with the ePub version you've created, try out some created by others. If you are happy, then great!

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Old 08-10-2009, 10:28 AM   #29
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Hanlin used to have poor ePUB support but now that you can upgrade to the new ADE version the ePUB will become one of the more popular formats for Hanlin devices I expect. It is my new favorite format for everything except eBooks that need internal links. This is not supported yet in ePUB but is for Mobi.

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Old 08-10-2009, 10:30 AM   #30
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Though this is a Kindle specific Bible, if you aren't happy with the ePub version you've created, try out some created by others. If you are happy, then great!
That version would not work well on my reader, but it did give me an idea to improve things a bit. Thanks.
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