Kindle versus Kobo?

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

It's funny how often that thought comes up on this forum.



I dunno. Nook's software isn't as good as Kobo or Amazon. But I wouldn't call it a Dumpster fire. It's basic, yeah. But aside from the release of the Glowlight 3, it's stable and works fine.

I like the reading experience on the Nook quite a bit. And that is the most important.

I wish collections and series for sideloaded books could be managed by Calibre. But the Kindle has the same issues. And at least the Nook can display a book summary without having to open it.

I also wish half the home screen weren't taken up by the store.

Collections aren't important for me, but the two things I most miss on my Nook are custom fonts and the option to refresh every page. Also the Nook is unable to perform a search within my longest ebook, The Wheel of Time omnibus. Kobo has the same inability with the epub version (it has no problems searching the kepub, though).

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by jackie_w

Image zooming, pop-up footnotes are the obvious two missing features.

Fairly common CSS which doesn't work in epub but does in kepub:
- font-variant: small-caps
- pseudo selectors :first-letter, :first-line
- ... and probably many more

Font fallback for missing glyphs in the selected font.

Do pseudo selectors work in the current version ADE? I know font-variant works. I'm not sure about zooming or popup footnotes.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by bookyboy

There really is no perfect choice, at least for me.

I'm very passionate about my Kindle Voyage's, but honestly, what I'd really like is "nook hardware" with "kobo software features" executed at the level of fit/finish/polish of Kindles.

A true "lost soul" in the reader world is that beautiful 7.8" Nook hardware that is trapped in that total dumpster fire Nook software & firmware ecosystem.

Personally, I don't like the nook design. I think the bezel is way too large on all four sides.

[jackie_w]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Do pseudo selectors work in the current version ADE? I know font-variant works. I'm not sure about zooming or popup footnotes.

I only know about what I see in epubs on current Kobo firmware. I don't have ADE installed on my PC so I don't know what PC versions can/can't do.

[JSWolf]

I have noticed one major flaw with the Kindle that Kobo does not have.

With the Kindle, if you have some embedded fonts, but the body font is not embedded, you cannot have your choice of body font and still be able to see the embedded fonts. A good example of this is The Wind in the Willows from here (MR). Can anyone get their own choice of body font and the embedded fonts to display on a Kindle (no embedding the body font as that's cheating).

I can get my choice of body font and the embedded fonts to display with my Kobo.

[Luffy]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I have noticed one major flaw with the Kindle that Kobo does not have.

With the Kindle, if you have some embedded fonts, but the body font is not embedded, you cannot have your choice of body font and still be able to see the embedded fonts. A good example of this is The Wind in the Willows from here (MR). Can anyone get their own choice of body font and the embedded fonts to display on a Kindle (no embedding the body font as that's cheating).

I can get my choice of body font and the embedded fonts to display with my Kobo.

For me the only reason I use Kindle over Kobo is the easily faster page turn that is delivered fast and without exception. I know that one might suggest I use keypub on my Kobos, which I tried but to no visible change. If I notice that future Kindles don't deliver on that front, I'll switch allegiance.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by GlenBarrington

Does it matter, really? From reading the entire thread, it is clear the consumer is held hostage by whatever national and economic constraints 'the system' places on them. And then the availability of books themselves seems constrained by a byzantine network of
publishing rights, anti-competition laws, and outright government meddling.

Reading what you want to read has always been a lot of work. It seems that as economics and literacy were eliminated as barriers, artificial barriers were put up to replace them.

By now personal preference is a major discriminator on ereaders.

Truth is, outside comparison articles, the two companies rarely compete for the same buyer anyway. Instead each focuses on very different buyers: Kobo and the hardware only ereaders cater to interoperability believers and Amazon caters primarily to Prime subscribers and phone/tablet folks.

And both benefit from the same lock-in effect of all walled gardens.

For the vast majority of buyers in the outside world, the choice is of which walled garden you want to commit to. The differences at the hardware and OS level pale before the differences in the rest of the systems. And, while some folks despise the very idea of ads, the majority of buyers don't. They'd rather spend the money saved on books. It's not as if the things pop up every other page or at all, during reading. And what they serve out isn't ads for depilators or garden hoses, but rather for books similar to ones already purchased. So Amazon doesn't need to worry about ad-free prices. (Besides, Kindles go on sale every other month anyway. List prices barely matter.)

Most people just want to read with the least amount of fuss. Download. Read. As cheaply as possible. The reader is just a means to an end. For most folks the least obstrusive reader is the best reader.
That's how Kindle built up its massive user base.

As for Canadian prices, well that is a different market all its own.
Kobo owns it and Amazon doesn't much bother to contest it.

Likewise, Kobo doesn't particularly bother with the US other than the occasional partnership they hope might gain them some mind share, like with the ABA, BEST BUY, or WalMart. None move the needle enough for Amazon to worry, if at all.

They both play the game as if the other didn't exist.
Detente, ebook style.

[Sirtel]

We who debate the pros and cons of various brands here should remember that the vast majority of users out there simply don't care. Most of them use the default options of their ereader and never bother with looking deeper. As fjtorres said, they just want to download and read, bells and whistles don't matter to them.

Of course it's fun to discuss different ereaders here on MR. But it's only fun to us hardcore ereader fans and tinkerers, a tiny minority. Most ordinary users just yawn hearing such discussions.

[JSWolf]

One thing I like about Kobo vs Kindle is the fact that with Kobo, I get better typesetting. It's not just about ligatures, kerning, and hyphenation. But also about embedded fonts. Wind in the Willow is an excellent example. It uses some nice embedded fonts and that includes the character used for scene breaks. On my Kobo I can have this displayed and still use my choice of body font. On a Kindle, if I want to be able to see the embedded fonts, I end up with a sans-serif font for the body font. This makes reading this book a poor experience on a Kindle. On a Kobo, the reading experience is very good.

Why is it that Amazon has made fonts an all or nothing experience? I've seen some eBooks where a handwriting font was used for letters in the eBook. On a Kindle, again, all or nothing. On a Kobo, it works well as you don't have an all or nothing experience.

The other thing I don't like about a Kindle is that to get typesetting, you need to be using KFX. Amazon with KFX is lying to users. If the publisher doesn't want DRM, then there should not be any DRM. Yet with KFX, there is DRM. The typesetting that KFX does could have been done with KF8. All it would have taken is the KF8 renderer to handle it.

[bookyboy]

Man...to the points above, you guys are right...

We are now so deep in the weeds that essentially zero normal consumers even remotely care about these angles of comparison.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by rcentros

The thing is, a Kindle with "special offers" is usable "as is." Most Kindle users don't care if the ads are there or not (the inconvenience isn't that significant). So the "real" price of a Kindle can mean different things to different people. For most, the "real" price is what a Kindle sells for (with special offers) and (since sales come often) it's often what they sell for when on sale.

Most times I don't notice whether there's an ad or the Kindle lockscreen.

I got a Fintie cheapie cover that adds a milimeter or so to each side and activates the auto off/on.
So it's just: flip the cover, swipe, and read.
On the old Pocketbook and sony it was cover, power button, and read.
No difference. But the screen is much nicer. And the size and weight great. Smaller and lighter the the old PB360, which was my favorite.

And, yes, waiting on a sale pays off; I got the 32Gb for $99. Plus $10 for the cover.

This year Prime day will be delayed, if not cancelled outright, but they'll find another excuse to discount it anyway. (Reopening day?)

Features? I don 't bother with them but cross platform sync, even on webscription books, is useful when I'm on the tablet.

And neither my mother or me have had a kindle crash on us.
Beats the old days by a mile.

Today's readers are as good for reading as can be, regardless of brand.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Collections aren't important for me, but the two things I most miss on my Nook are custom fonts and the option to refresh every page. Also the Nook is unable to perform a search within my longest ebook, The Wheel of Time omnibus. Kobo has the same inability with the epub version (it has no problems searching the kepub, though).

Collections and series aren't major things for me either.

Custom fonts are neat. But in practice, all I ever do is add Google's Literata Book font and leave it. And on Nook, I've found Georgia (which is also on the Kobo) is equally nice.

On my Kobo I set refresh to every chapter and on my Nook I don't remember how often it refreshes. Ghosting doesn't seem to be a problem on either, so refresh doesn't really matter to me.

The one thing I do miss on Nook is 'one screen equals one page' that I get from reading ePub.

I would argue that Nook isn't really missing anything important that Kobo offers. But the accumulation of small things is what makes the Kobo software nicer overall.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Personally, I don't like the nook design. I think the bezel is way too large on all four sides.

I like that Nook isn't afraid to be bold or different in design. The Paperwhite and Clara are featureless blackish gray rectangles.

I like the page turn and home buttons on the Glowlight 3. I especially like the white pebbled bezels on my 2015 Plus.

And you don't hear complaints about the screens on Nooks. B&N have been very good with the physical design of their readers.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

We who debate the pros and cons of various brands here should remember that the vast majority of users out there simply don't care. Most of them use the default options of their ereader and never bother with looking deeper. As fjtorres said, they just want to download and read, bells and whistles don't matter to them.

Of course it's fun to discuss different ereaders here on MR. But it's only fun to us hardcore ereader fans and tinkerers, a tiny minority. Most ordinary users just yawn hearing such discussions.

Yes, that is true. But it doesn't make the conversation worthless.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I like that Nook isn't afraid to be bold or different in design. The Paperwhite and Clara are featureless blackish gray rectangles.

Yes, I like that as well. The hardware of the latest Nook is why I bought it, and it's very nice.

Tbh Amazon has risked different designs too, since the Oasis 1 in 2016 (which caused a major hue and cry, being the only irregular design on the market at the time, but also won many supporters) and Kobo copied Amazon later with the design of the Forma and the Libra. Not that I mind Kobo's decision, being a fan of physical buttons and the lopsided design. Or perhaps even since the Voyage in 2014, with its haptic buttons.