Kindle to utilize epub format in late 2022

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by jhowell

I doubt that they are dropping MOBI internally. It costs them almost nothing to continue to support MOBI and users of older devices depend on it.

This is about making sure that MOBI files are only created using Amazon’s own tool (kindlegen) that also produces the newer KF8 format along with the means to synchronize reading position and annotations between the two formats.

But it can be a real pain in the ass for those creating eBooks using features in KF8 that do not work well or sat all in Mobi.

[JSWolf]

delete post

[Tarana]

Originally Posted by rcentros

Why is it time for Mobi to "go?" It still works — I still read .mobi books even though I could easily convert them — often I'll download both the .ePub and .mobi version of books I buy on Humble Bundle, etc., so I can read them on either the Kindles or my other eReaders. Feedbooks and others also do both ePub and Mobi on their free titles.

Choice is good.

Probably .mobi not needed is my theory. Azw3 works on Kindle 3 (keyboard) although it doesn't have the additional features you see from PW3 onwards. The very first kindle is no longer supported and I'm guessing few people use Kindle 2 (I think that only uses .mobi but could be wrong). I think it's good that the epub will now be accepted. People who don't have Calibre because they have no computer can have their epubs sent from places like Tor without a problem once .mobi option is gone.

[JSWolf]

I doubt there are a lot of people still using the original Kindle or the second Kindle. The thing is, if Amazon dropped support for Mobi then those with old Kindles would have to upgrade. There does come a time when it's time to upgrade.

Do you think digital TV should have not happened because some people did not have a compatible TV?

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I doubt there are a lot of people still using the original Kindle or the second Kindle. The thing is, if Amazon dropped support for Mobi then those with old Kindles would have to upgrade. There does come a time when it's time to upgrade.

Even if Amazon dropped support for the K1 and K2 devices they would still have a lot of work to do to get rid of MOBI. Here are some examples:

• Many published books are only available in MOBI format since that is what the publisher supplied to Amazon. That was disallowed just last year.
  
• MOBI is used for most dictionaries.
  
• MOBI is used for periodicals on Kindles.
  
• MOBI is used in Kindle for iOS for personal documents.
  
• MOBI is used for enhanced books with audio/video content. For example: The Hobbit (Enhanced Edition).

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I doubt there are a lot of people still using the original Kindle or the second Kindle. The thing is, if Amazon dropped support for Mobi then those with old Kindles would have to upgrade. There does come a time when it's time to upgrade.

Do you think digital TV should have not happened because some people did not have a compatible TV?

Not comparable.

text files still work.

A USB stick at €12 add digital TV on a laptop (and some tablets via USB2Go).
A €45 box adds digital TV (terrestrial OR Satellite) to an old TV. Adds HDTV to an HDMI monitor. HDMI -> VGA adaptors also work with some boxes.

It costs NOTHING to keep supporting Mobi for those that need it, even from only docx & epub input. Running Analogue TV at the same time as Digita wastes millions and wastes spectrum, a very finite resource in short supply.

DAB and FM is a better analogy. The FM Spectrum is no use for anything else. It's purely a political act to benefit National Radio in the tiny number of countries where FM was turned off. Community and Local Radio is better served by FM.
Oh, and Ireland turned off DAB last May because only 44% coverage and only had National RTE apart from some test sites. Unlike like KF8, there isn't a lot of point to DAB, so it's also an imperfect analogy.

The only analogy is file formats. Wordprocessors still offer to save in text, doc (some even different kinds) and RTF as well as docx, HTML,PDF and odt.

Allegedly GRR Martin and some other authors still use Wordstar (which has at least two incompatible proprietary formats).

There are still people using both sorts of pdb, text, HTML or LRF as well as Mobi, because that's what the gadget they read on uses.

It's totally reasonable for Amazon to only accept epub, or docx or whatever and not mobi (KF7), but there is zero reason for them to stop delivering/producing it as that costs nothing extra if it's an Internet download.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by jhowell

Even if Amazon dropped support for the K1 and K2 devices they would still have a lot of work to do to get rid of MOBI. Here are some examples:

• Many published books are only available in MOBI format since that is what the publisher supplied to Amazon. That was disallowed just last year.
  
• MOBI is used for most dictionaries.
  
• MOBI is used for periodicals on Kindles.
  
• MOBI is used in Kindle for iOS for personal documents.
  
• MOBI is used for enhanced books with audio/video content. For example: The Hobbit (Enhanced Edition).

It's time Amazon got sway from Mobi even if it means totally redoing the firmware to make KF8 the format for all of these other things.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Not comparable.

text files still work.

A USB stick at €12 add digital TV on a laptop (and some tablets via USB2Go).
A €45 box adds digital TV (terrestrial OR Satellite) to an old TV. Adds HDTV to an HDMI monitor. HDMI -> VGA adaptors also work with some boxes.

It costs NOTHING to keep supporting Mobi for those that need it, even from only docx & epub input. Running Analogue TV at the same time as Digita wastes millions and wastes spectrum, a very finite resource in short supply.

DAB and FM is a better analogy. The FM Spectrum is no use for anything else. It's purely a political act to benefit National Radio in the tiny number of countries where FM was turned off. Community and Local Radio is better served by FM.
Oh, and Ireland turned off DAB last May because only 44% coverage and only had National RTE apart from some test sites. Unlike like KF8, there isn't a lot of point to DAB, so it's also an imperfect analogy.

The only analogy is file formats. Wordprocessors still offer to save in text, doc (some even different kinds) and RTF as well as docx, HTML,PDF and odt.

Allegedly GRR Martin and some other authors still use Wordstar (which has at least two incompatible proprietary formats).

There are still people using both sorts of pdb, text, HTML or LRF as well as Mobi, because that's what the gadget they read on uses.

It's totally reasonable for Amazon to only accept epub, or docx or whatever and not mobi (KF7), but there is zero reason for them to stop delivering/producing it as that costs nothing extra if it's an Internet download.

It can cost a lot of needless time and hassle for those creating eBooks using features that do not work or do not work well on Mobi. The reading experience in that case can be very poor. Or the KF8 version has to be dumbed down because of Mobi. It's not worth it to keep Mobi. LRF is dead. LIT is dead. PDB is dead. Lots of other eBook formats are dead. Let Mobi die.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

But it can be a real pain in the ass for those creating eBooks using features in KF8 that do not work well or sat all in Mobi.

You seem more bothered by that than actual publishers are. Even Amazon doesn't seem to care any more. They no longer even mention testing how books appear in older formats in their guidance for publishers.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

It's time Amazon got sway from Mobi even if it means totally redoing the firmware to make KF8 the format for all of these other things.

Amazon is gradually adding the missing capabilities to KFX format. In my opinion there is no chance they will ever add any new features to KF8. It has already been frozen for about a decade now.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

It can cost a lot of needless time and hassle for those creating eBooks using features that do not work or do not work well on Mobi.

There isn't any need to do anything special, it's Amazon's problem. So your suggestion is that because the book will be less well formatted in Mobi, the people that can only read mobi shouldn't get it at all?

If you have a later Kindle or an App and the book was uploaded as epub or docx to KDP you will never ever be offered the mobi version. But if you have bad eyesight and have a DX or DXG (9.7") it only takes mobi. Amazon take care of converting it for download via PC or other delivery. It's still better than plain text or nothing.

Do you produce ebooks for sale on multiple platforms or are you speculating? Anything too clever in an epub might not work on Nook, Apple Books iPhone, Kindle iOS, not all epub apps, Kindle AZW3/KF8 or KFX etc. If it works OK on all those it's probably readable on Mobi.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Do you produce ebooks for sale on multiple platforms or are you speculating? Anything too clever in an epub might not work on Nook, Apple Books iPhone, Kindle iOS, not all epub apps, Kindle AZW3/KF8 or KFX etc. If it works OK on all those it's probably readable on Mobi.

I do not produce eBooks for multiple platforms. But I have dived into the code of plenty of eBooks and I do think that most of the ones I have cleaned up will work on most Readers/programs that support ePub.

[oston]

Is there a place where we can send bug reports related to the new feature of being able to send epub files as attachments to device email addresses.

I sent the same epub document to my Ipad Kindle App, my Kindle Paperwhite (10th gen) and also converted it to a kpf file with Kindle Previewer 3.

The results were inconsistent.

- Previewer showed Drop-Caps well, exactly as intended with the intended font.
- Paperwhite showed the drop caps almost as well, but ignored the assigned font,
- The Kindle app on the Ipad ignored the Drop-caps completely.

I'm sure that such inconsistencies will be ironed out as the feature is developed more completely, but is anyone here participating in their Beta test program where such things can be reported.
jim

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by oston

Is there a place where we can send bug reports related to the new feature of being able to send epub files as attachments to device email addresses.

I sent the same epub document to my Ipad Kindle App, my Kindle Paperwhite (10th gen) and also converted it to a kpf file with Kindle Previewer 3.

The results were inconsistent.

- Previewer showed Drop-Caps well, exactly as intended with the intended font.
- Paperwhite showed the drop caps almost as well, but ignored the assigned font,
- The Kindle app on the Ipad ignored the Drop-caps completely.

I'm sure that such inconsistencies will be ironed out as the feature is developed more completely, but is anyone here participating in their Beta test program where such things can be reported.
jim

Considering how long Amazon has recommended epub files as a preferred format for KDP? I would suggest that you might want to check the KDP Kindle Publishing Guidelines. Play special attention to the Drop Caps segment in the Text Guidelines - Reflowable segment. They even supply sample media queries to help your drop caps be readable on KF8 and mobi.

From my personal experience, dropcaps are a total PITA even when moving from one epub reader to another, never mind moving to a different platform.

[Quoth]

I remove drop cap CSS from any ebooks I get. I regard them as Publisher Egotism. They reduce readability even on paper. Terrible on websites.
They don't work across all epub renderers.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by oston

Is there a place where we can send bug reports related to the new feature of being able to send epub files as attachments to device email addresses.
...
I'm sure that such inconsistencies will be ironed out as the feature is developed more completely, but is anyone here participating in their Beta test program where such things can be reported.

You appear to believe that the feature of converting EPUB to kindle formats is under development and going to improve over time. I doubt this is true.

When you email an EPUB it is converted using the same program (kindlegen version 2.9) that is used for professionally published books to produce MOBI and KF8 formats. That program version was released in 2013 and has been unchanged since then. The differences in rendering you see on various devices are because these older Kindle formats are being used.

Professionally published books are converted using kindlegen but are also converted to KFX format which enables the newer Enhanced Typesetting features that you see in the Kindle Previewer, including improved handling of drop caps. I doubt that Amazon is going to convert emailed personal documents to KFX since those additional features provide incentive to purchase books from the Kindle store.