07-22-2013, 04:13 PM | #1 |
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
Posts: 11,447
Karma: 157030631
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Device: K2, iPad, KFire, PPW, Voyage, NookColor. 2 Droid, Oasis, Boox Note2
|
RE: Zipping/Mimetype/?
Hey, gang:
Well...another ponderment. As some of you may have seen, I've been trying to help someone on another thread here with font-embedding issues. However, in both the course of that, and some abrupt startlements at Kindle's DP since last Friday, certain things seem to have changed at Amazon and I could use some help in figuring "what's what." The font-guy has other issues, unrelated to this, but this also affects him and anyone else uploading at KDP. Can someone, speaking very, very slowly and in small words, explain to me what we do, in Sigil, for zipping up the ePUB? We've run into something odd that I can't quite explain, but to get (some) of our fonts to work (Type1/postscript) in books that were uploaded this past week, we've had to take our usual epub, but then unzip it into its constituent parts, do some (pre-mobi) editing, and then rezip those same constituent parts, using WinRAR, to get to a filename.zip file, and then rename filename.zip to filename.epub--which then works at KDP with the fonts. If we open the zipped file (renamed) in Sigil, the resulting file won't work (at KDP). Doesn't work really as an ePUB, either, but....this also seems to have some part of what's going on with MOBI's made from Sigil-made ePUBs. MOBI's made from Sigil-made ePUBs aren't "carrying" the fonts at KDP, either; when you mobiunpack the (resulting preview) mobi, the fonts are still in the kindlegensrc.zip, but they are MIA, in toto, from the resulting MOBI file. No display, no option, zip. (No pun intended). However, if we take the ePUB, tweak it as described, and use WinRAR to zip, then simply rename, the resulting "ePUB" works as a conveyor mechanism at KDP. Something is obviously different about zipping with WinRAR versus whatever Sigil does. Remembering that I'm not a steely-eyed coder, can someone give this a thought and see if anything obvious springs to mind? User_none, if you're around, or one of the guys? Meme, or...? I know this may not simply be the zipping/compression mechanism, but I thought I'd start at the most obvious point and work my way in. Other things are afoot (obviously, the postscript fonts are history now, but I have MOBI's that have to be made to work this week), but this is patently part of it, it seems. I know, I know..I always have the weird stuff, don't I? Hitch |
07-22-2013, 04:33 PM | #2 |
Well trained by Cats
Posts: 29,689
Karma: 54369090
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Central Coast of California
Device: Kobo Libra2,Kobo Aura2v1, K4NT(Fixed: New Bat.), Galaxy Tab A
|
The first file in the ZIP Container MUST be a file by the ASCII name of ‘mimetype’ which holds the MIME type for the ZIP Container (i.e., “application/epub+zip” as an ASCII string; no padding, white-space or case change). The file MUST be neither compressed nor encrypted and there MUST NOT be an extra field in its ZIP header. If this is done, then the ZIP Container offers When you do a typical Zip, everything gets compressed. There are tricks... But Why?Why are you editing outside of Sigil? Is it because of the non-TTF/OTF fonts? Have you tried 'Tweak EPUB' (A version is embedded in Calibre), It takes care of unpackaging- Allowing your edits (and additiions as long as you take care of the OPF changes)-and repackaging into a valid EPUB The folk at Atlantis have a stand alone version http://www.atlantiswordprocessor.com...tweak_epub.htm |
07-22-2013, 04:33 PM | #3 |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 27,464
Karma: 192992430
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD
|
Wow! How bizzarre. So in order to get a kindlebook with working, embedded fonts through KDP, you actually have to submit/convert an invalid ePub? But a valid ePub will result in a perfectly functioning kindlebook (just minus the fonts)? That's nucking futs. Sounds to me like you may've stumbled upon a loophole around a new (but undocumented) "scorched earth" policy concerning embedded fonts and KDP.
Last edited by DiapDealer; 07-22-2013 at 04:40 PM. |
07-22-2013, 04:38 PM | #4 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 11,470
Karma: 13095790
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Grass Valley, CA
Device: EB 1150, EZ Reader, Literati, iPad 2 & Air 2, iPhone 7
|
Quote:
Dale |
|
07-22-2013, 04:49 PM | #5 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 27,464
Karma: 192992430
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD
|
Quote:
I'm not trying to give anyone one a hard time, or anything (especially Hitch), but it seemed pretty clear to me from the description of her process that a valid ePub being submitted/converted was failing (no embedded fonts), and an invalid (compressed mimetype file) ePub being submitted/converted was succeeding (fonts were working/included). Did I read it wrong? Last edited by DiapDealer; 07-22-2013 at 04:55 PM. |
|
07-22-2013, 04:57 PM | #6 |
Wizard
Posts: 4,520
Karma: 121692313
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Heemskerk, NL
Device: PRS-T1, Kobo Touch, Kobo Aura
|
No, actually I got the same impression as Diap did. It almost looks like KDP doesn't check if it is a valid ePUB.
There are various methods of storing data in a zip file. I am not quite sure which method Sigil uses. |
07-22-2013, 05:23 PM | #7 | ||||
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
Posts: 11,447
Karma: 157030631
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Device: K2, iPad, KFire, PPW, Voyage, NookColor. 2 Droid, Oasis, Boox Note2
|
Quote:
If everyone could calm down, please? Please don't assume that we're half-assing stuff just for the fun of it, TY.
Quote:
Quote:
@DaleDe: Quote:
@Diap and @Toxaris: Exactly correct. Valid fails to convey the fonts; invalid conveys the fonts. Of course it's Bizarro-World. In what universe would you guys think I would voluntarily come on a forum and say, "I'm knowingly submitting invalid ePUB files to KDP," on a forum that shows up top of the Google hit parade in searches? Patently, something is amiss, and that something started this past week, after the KDP was down for a few days. Now, we are reworking mobis that were previously made with some postscript fonts (fortuitously, we only had a few in-house where we'd been unable to get the client to use an OT), but I have a couple that just can't be "fixed" that way, there's no adequately similar OT font to achieve the "artistic vision" of the publisher-author. Thus, the kluge you have read about thus far, for these few that cannot be altered. OK? Everybody got the picture? Titanic, meet iceberg. Iceberg...etc. Hitch |
||||
07-22-2013, 05:59 PM | #8 |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 27,464
Karma: 192992430
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD
|
After further thought... it doesn't surprise me that kindegen/KDP doesn't care about the ePub being valid or not (mimetype compression). It tries its best to convert everything you throw at it after all. So like you initially suggested, it probably has something to do with the compression algorithms. But judging how everything seems to work just fine EXCEPT the embedded fonts, it would seem KDP might be sensitive to how the font files themselves are compressed inside the ePub, and very little else. I wish I was set up to submit to KDP so I could experiment a bit, but I'm not. Unless locally built MOBIs that are then subsequently submitted to KDP exhibit the same behavior?
|
07-22-2013, 06:06 PM | #9 | |
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
Posts: 11,447
Karma: 157030631
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Device: K2, iPad, KFire, PPW, Voyage, NookColor. 2 Droid, Oasis, Boox Note2
|
Quote:
Amazon's been goosey about Postscripts for a while, saying "recommended" not to use, but this is the first outright nuking behavior, and it isn't just nuking the Type1's, it's nuking all of them. But if you take the Type1's out, then the normal process works--(I may not have said this earlier). You can upload an ePUB or a MOBI, and Bob's-yer-uncle. But if a Type1 is present, the whole thing goes Gaga, and it ain't no Lady. Hitch |
|
07-22-2013, 06:14 PM | #10 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 27,464
Karma: 192992430
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD
|
Quote:
Last edited by DiapDealer; 07-22-2013 at 06:16 PM. |
|
07-22-2013, 07:17 PM | #11 | |
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
Posts: 11,447
Karma: 157030631
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Device: K2, iPad, KFire, PPW, Voyage, NookColor. 2 Droid, Oasis, Boox Note2
|
Quote:
oh, hell, sorry. (). I don't think, sometimes. Yes, that follows the same rule. In our normal course of business, we build all our client mobi's locally, both with KG and KP, and that's what the first indicator was, a "locally-built" mobi that had vanishing fonts. That one was built with KindleGen from the CL running via a PERL script. We then tried it every other possible way; ePUB->KP (just in case) to KDP; ePUB to KDP; zipped HTML to KDP; etc. No combination of "normal" worked. Only the abnormal via WinRAR has "worked" in resulting in a mobi file with Type1 fonts. Did I clear that up? Sorry...it's been a very, very long weekend, with a lot of very distressed clients who don't understand why what they got from us suddenly turned into big piles of unrecognizable books post-upload. I'm probably not as clear as usual. Hitch |
|
07-22-2013, 07:43 PM | #12 |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 27,464
Karma: 192992430
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD
|
That clears it up, thanks! Can you point me toward an easily accessible/available Type1 font? I'm fairly font-agnostic.
Also, what happens if you skip the re-zipping with WinRar altogether? Do the embedded fonts work (assuming there's a Type1 font present) if you just feed the OPF file of an unzipped Sigil ePub to Kindlegen? |
07-22-2013, 09:09 PM | #13 | |
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
Posts: 11,447
Karma: 157030631
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Device: K2, iPad, KFire, PPW, Voyage, NookColor. 2 Droid, Oasis, Boox Note2
|
Quote:
To be hyper-clear, the only way we've found to get the type1's to show up, or, for that matter, to get ANY fonts to show up at all in any title that has any Type1 font in it, is to use the WinRAR-->zip-->rename to ePUB route. Using the WinRAR zipped file as a zip hasn't worked. If we feed the OPF of an uzipped Sigil ePUB to KG, yes, it makes a perfectly good mobi, but again: the fonts get stripped at Step 5 at KDP. All the methods described, previously, make perfectly lovely mobi files, on your desktop. They all look and work great; they simply all get stripped at the KDP post Step-5. Right? So: mobi's, at home, are making just fine. Whether it's ePUB->KP or ePUB-->KG, or OPF-->KG, or even a zipped HTML file to KG, they all make just fine. Type1 fonts, etc., all display. But not once that same file, or the same source file(s), are uploaded at Step5 at KDP. Then, the pre-existing, perfectly visible fonts disappear. As if they never existed or were improperly coded in the first place. If you replace the Type1's with fonts that aren't Type1, the books build and the fonts hold, post Step-5 (except for the other guy's book--the guy on the other thread? He has something hinky going on with his book that I haven't tracked down yet.) So, at home, books build like usual. No issues, all methods, regardless of the type of font. At the KDP, only books not using any Type1 fonts "hold," no matter the source, UNLESS you use the hinky WinRAR-->zip-->ePUB route discussed earlier. I know it's confusing. {sigh}. Hitch |
|
07-22-2013, 09:39 PM | #14 |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 27,464
Karma: 192992430
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD
|
That crystalizes my understanding of the situ, believe it or not.
Given that everything appears to be working as intended until some point in the KDP process ... that means there has to be something quantifiably different about the mobi built from a normal (valid) Sigil epub, and the mobi built from the "hinky," ePub-ish WinRar beast. It's possible that some of the raw, debug output of KindleUnpack might shed some light on what that difference might be. There's got to be something there (or not there) that KDP notices and says; "this we like," or "this we don't like." It's either that, or you've truly stumbled across a loophole that allows you to achieve something that they have no intention of supporting any more (embedded Type1 fonts). Thanks for the GhandiSans pointer. I'll poke around and see if there's anything obvious to infer from any differences in the mobis built using the two different methods, but I'm certainly no authority. I just have a decent working knowledge of the "guts" of a kindlebook and of KindleUnpack's (formerly MobiUnpack) codebase. I'm a noodler. |
07-22-2013, 09:52 PM | #15 |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 11,470
Karma: 13095790
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Grass Valley, CA
Device: EB 1150, EZ Reader, Literati, iPad 2 & Air 2, iPhone 7
|
Well it looks like I got it wrong. Sorry, it was and still is quite confusing. Perhaps 2 wrongs do make a right after all.
Dale |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
epubcheck error: mimetype entry missing or not the first in archive | rjnagle | ePub | 23 | 11-16-2013 07:16 AM |
epub mimetype and Content Server | paulfiera | Calibre | 4 | 10-08-2012 12:51 AM |
epub et mimetype | merlinetmoi | E-Books | 4 | 09-10-2010 01:20 AM |
What are opf and mimetype files? | BookCat | Other formats | 6 | 12-15-2009 08:44 PM |