BooksOnBoard reports major changes in ebook pricing

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by emonti8384

Just to make sure I'm getting the gist of this...

1. Ebook pricing is going to go up (anywhere from 3-5 dollars) for 5 of the major publishing companies

Well... what they said is, some books will go up, and many will go down.

Of course, I have to see it to believe it.

BOb

[DawnFalcon]

...What they've said is they'll use a pricing model which will discount books over time.
They haven't said if they'll start any books at an advanced stage along that track.

It would seem silly not to, but they're doing a heck of a lot of other silly things.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

...What they've said is they'll use a pricing model which will discount books over time.
They haven't said if they'll start any books at an advanced stage along that track.

It would seem silly not to, but they're doing a heck of a lot of other silly things.

They said they'd be pricing eBooks based on the current pBook edition. So come Thursday, we should see the prices change. But we'll just have to see how that really works.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by basschick

interestingly enough, musical instrument sales is another place where price fixing exists. the difference is it's been around long enough (they call those prices MAP) that the ftc is involved.

No, the difference is that NAMM was, in fact, engaged in price fixing -- specifically, retailers collaborating in secret to share prices, and thus act anti-competitively. From the FTC's own take (http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2009/03/namm.shtm):

"The complaint states that at meetings and programs sponsored by NAMM, competing musical instrument retailers discussed strategies for raising retail prices. Retailers exchanged information on competitively sensitive subjects, including prices, margins, and MAP policies."

In contrast, no one is collaborating on ebook prices in this manner. Publishers are turning retailers into agents and specifying prices. However, publishers do not appear to have gotten together in a secret room to unilaterally set prices, nor have the retailers done the same.

In addition, at least one publisher has specified they will engage in dynamic pricing, and drop prices over time. In fact they can point out how they are slashing their cover prices in half.

Unless the FTC or AG's office suggests otherwise, I don't see much genuine evidence that this is truly "price fixing."

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by gastan

The truth finally gets mentioned. In all the reading I've done concerning book prices (pBook or eBook) the same mantra seems to be repeated over and over by everyone - publishers, authors, commenters - the publishers need more money to support their authors.

I've never seen that. *cough* straw man *cough*

The common issues are that new ebooks at the $10 price point are cannibalizing hardcover sales, and erode the value of (new) books.

Originally Posted by gastan

The publishers don't give a damn about their authors and don't care if they make money or not.

With all due respect, "bull."

Publishers throw tremendous resources at their authors. If the author is actually able to sell books, they recognize that they need to treat the author well or else they'll jump to another publisher who offers bigger advances and better perks.

Not every author gets treated like royalty, of course. Then again, not many actually sell enough books that the publishers actually break even.

Originally Posted by gastan

They care if THEY make money, and the more they can get, the better they like it. GREED = the real reason behind the agency pricing model. Period.

Oh, please. If you're greedy, publishing is one of the worst businesses to be in.

Authors are not saints and publishers are not demons. It's a business, and lots of authors would not be able to sell any books if it wasn't for the resources invested in them by the "greedy" publishers.

Originally Posted by gastan

It amounts to price fixing and borders on violating anti-trust laws in the US and the European Union competition law (IMO).

Uh huh. You're basing this interpretation on an extensive background in the relevant case law, I presume.

This has all been very open and well-publicized. If it turns out to be anything resembling "price fixing," I'd expect the FTC, AG's office and/or especially the EU to make some noises about it.

*crickets*

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by Hamlet53

In my opinion there will not be a rational supply and demand pricing structure for e-books until the format as a percentage of the total sales of books grows enough to be a significant fraction of total sales.

Actually, it's already happening.

How? Price is based on interactions of supply, demand, perceptions and marketing -- not exclusively on cost. And the ultimate arbiter is "what the market will bear." Nor, I suspect, do most consumers have the slightest idea of the true cost of publishing a book.

For example, paper is actually a fraction of the costs -- around 15% or so. Hardcovers do not cost $10 or $15 more than a trade paper to manufacture; the hardcover/paperback price differential is just window dressing on "rational" pricing -- namely, charging more for a book when demand is high. Which is pretty much what agency pricing will establish.

Nor am I aware of any company that is truly forthcoming about its costs. You may believe an iPhone "only" cost $150 because someone made a guess about the cost of its parts, but that doesn't include a whole host of other costs -- including R&D, marketing, taxes, importation, distribution, inventory, store overhead, staffing.....

The reality is that people hear that "ebooks will be more expensive," and shortly thereafter people who are used to paying $10 for an ebook hit the ceiling. Reason makes rare appearances in the resulting discussions or interpretations.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Price is based on interactions of supply, demand, perceptions and marketing -- not exclusively on cost. And the ultimate arbiter is "what the market will bear."

Totally agree... So folks... if you are all willing (and do) buy eBooks for $15 when they first come out that price will stick, and stay around longer... and probably eventually get bumped up to $18 or $24.

So.... if you don't like the ebook price don't buy it.

(Oh and don't rationalize that if you don't buy it then ebooks will go away. Of course, if they do go away we still have the darknet scanners.)

BOb

[charleski]

Originally Posted by emonti8384

Just to make sure I'm getting the gist of this...

1. Ebook pricing is going to go up (anywhere from 3-5 dollars) for 5 of the major publishing companies

BoB's current price for James Patterson's I, Alex Cross is $19.98.
The RRP for the hardback is $27.99 according to Amazon.

According to Smashwords the price guide for the iBookstore shows that the ebook should be priced at no more than $14.99 for the iPad. Publishers are not allowed to allow it to be sold for less than that elsewhere.

Do I have this all down right?

No. In fact the price should come DOWN by $5 and BoB will certainly not be required to increase it.

How many times do I have to say this before it'll get through? BoB is simply engaging in scaremongering.

[charleski]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Well... what they said is, some books will go up, and many will go down.

Of course, I have to see it to believe it.

BOb

What BoB are saying is, "The change, we understand, is likely to result in a significant increase in the net selling price of many of our popular ebooks."

No mention at all of the fact that the iBookstore (which is the source of the REP they mention) will undercut their current prices on bestsellers by a significant margin.

[Crowl]

Originally Posted by stustaff

Why should the publisher not be allowed to sell their books however and to whoever they want?
If they choose that people who want to sell their books must do so at certain prices then thats up to them! no book store has to buy from them.

instead of legislation how about letting the market actually do its thing! Books especially the sort being discussed here(eg not educational) are not a neccesity like power or food so let the publisher price ridiculusly people wont buy and prices will drop!

Nothing is stopping the publisher doing exactly that, they set their prices and get their money from the retailer, all thats happening with this price fixing is that now the shop is not being allowed to cut their own margins or even sell something as a loss leader.

[stustaff]

Originally Posted by Crowl

Nothing is stopping the publisher doing exactly that, they set their prices and get their money from the retailer, all thats happening with this price fixing is that now the shop is not being allowed to cut their own margins or even sell something as a loss leader.

No your missing the point.
If the publisher wants to tell the retailer " I will only sell my books to you if you sign this contract to say that you will sell them for $x and never sell them for less"

then that is fine the publisher SHOULD be allowed to do that!
If the shops then decide they dont want to agree to such a deal then they buy books from someone else.

eventually if all shops refuse to buy books the publisher will change their mind.

but there doesnrt need to be inteference/involvement from goverment etc

[ddave]

My reaction is that higher prices ebooks will just make it that much longer before I buy my first ebook. Since I bought my Sony reader (700), i've enjoyed downloading and reading the many free books that are available. The portable nature of the readers has made it easier to read non-fiction books a little-at-a-time, often they're hard to take for several hours. But, I'm glad to have read them. Also, I've always wanted to read Tolstoy or George Eliot among others.
Many great novels are available for a free download to be loaded onto my reader and carried with me for when an opportunity presents itself. These will get me buy until the format wars end and prices stabilize. Meanwhile, if a book really get my attention and the ebook price is too high, I'll buy paper.
Dave

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by charleski

BoB's current price for James Patterson's I, Alex Cross is $19.98.
The RRP for the hardback is $27.99 according to Amazon.

Still 9.99 in the Kindle store. Isn't today the day the agency model pricing starts. Hachette is one of the 5 going to agency pricing right?

I'll have to recheck the price tomorrow.

BOb

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Still 9.99 in the Kindle store. Isn't today the day the agency model pricing starts.

Tomorrow, I believe.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Tomorrow, I believe.

Right... for some reason I thought today was the 1st. Guess I was fooled.

BOb