B&N CEO on the future of Nook

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

B&N is in the US, the biggest ebook market.
Bookeen is in France, much smaller.

What does that have to do with selling readers in a foreign market?

Regarding B&N

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Just as when folks outside the US were using reshippers to get the Nooks B&N refused to sell them.

Regarding everyone else

Originally Posted by fjtorres

It's not that they don't want our money, just that there aren't enough likely buyers, to make it worth their time.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

What does that have to do with selling readers in a foreign market?

Regarding B&N

Regarding everyone else

Everything.
It's all about the money.

In 2010 there was good money (around $100 per unit) in sellng ereaders, alone, globally. The big Consumer electronics companies like Asus, Acer, Panasonic, Sharp, Samsung, all thought so.

Today none of those do.
With hardware prices and margins low it only makes sense for walled garden players and smaller regional players.

And the issue isn't selling internationally, for Bookeen, Pocketbook, etc; but selling into the *US*. Once prices hit near cost and the margins hit near zero so did sales.

When sales go down enough, support and warranty costs outweigh the limited profit.

Seriously, how many units do you expect Bookeen would sell into the US,
against Kindle, Kobo, and even Nook?
Dozens, hundreds?
How much would it cost to staff up for marketing, shipping, returns, repairs, and user support? For $10-20 a unit?

Why do you think Kobo relies on local partners like Walmart instead of doing local marketing and support themselves?

It's not 2010, when the US market was open to all comers and prices were high.

There simply isn't enough money in selling onesies and twosies here, at competitive prices. Ahdf you can comoete, why bother?

You keep trying to compare two different worlds when the rules are too different. In fact, they were too different by the time B&N decided to belatedly sell in the UK.

The time to strike and build up the local infrastructure for Nook was 2010-11, when ereaders sold wity decent profits, even without followup book sales.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Everything.
It's all about the money.

You're going to see it the way you see it, regardless. If B&N didn't drop the cost of the Nook, Amazon would have dropped the cost of the Kindle. It was going to happen.

Seriously, how many units do you expect Bookeen would sell into the US, against Kindle, Kobo, and even Nook?

Kobo didn't sell readers in the US until very recently.

A reader company can sell their readers through Amazon or partner with someone like Kobo did.

You keep saying that Bookeen has to make their money off of hardware, because they don't sell books. But if that's so, what is this: Bookeen Store

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

You're going to see it the way you see it, regardless. If B&N didn't drop the cost of the Nook, Amazon would have dropped the cost of the Kindle. It was going to happen.



Kobo didn't sell readers in the US until very recently.

I guess I imagined Borders selling Kobo, or Best Buy, etc selling them until relatively recently.

They certainly dropped out of the US market but that’s not the same. And I’m fairly sure they’ve always shipped to the US for free.

Probably because they also sell ebooks unlike bookeen.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

I guess I imagined Borders selling Kobo, or Best Buy, etc selling them until relatively recently.

I seem to remember Borders selling Kobos (or Sonys?). But at any rate, Borders went belly-up in 2011. Kobo withdrew from the US after that.

I'm kind of over the Bookeen conversation, but, last thing:

Probably because they also sell ebooks unlike bookeen.

So I guess you didn't click on that handy Bookeen Store link I posted? If not, it's a link to Bookeen's ebook store. You know, where Bookeen sells ebooks

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I seem to remember Borders selling Kobos (or Sonys?). But at any rate, Borders went belly-up in 2011. Kobo withdrew from the US after that.

Then why’d you claim they weren’t sold in the US until recently.

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Kobo didn't sell readers in the US until very recently.

They were sold in the US in 2010 which was the time mentioned above (and beyond though how far beyond I can’t say for sure). I know when I got the Aura H2O people were still finding some stores in the US with Kobos though the numbers had been dropping. But that still would allow for stock to have dwindled over 4 years.

Kobo and Walmart teamed up in 2018. So really there were around 4 years Kobo weren’t being sold in the US (not including Amazon) and even through those years they were readily available via Amazon, Kobo, or Chapters.

I’ll clarify on the store, one which sells content in the language of the country buying the device. Bookeen appears (unsurprisingly) to only sell French books. Kobo, Nook, and Amazon are slightly more varied. Though it’s been awhile since I checked Nooks offering of non English books I recall they had some Spanish books. And I’d imagine when they themselves were pushing into other markets besides the UK that they offered books in those languages.

Of course getting the rights to sell costs money and bookeen likely didn’t like the figures they saw for foreign markets.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

Though it’s been awhile since I checked Nooks offering of non English books I recall they had some Spanish books.

Nook actually stocked substantially more spanish-language ebooks in the US than Amazon. For a while.
They shamed Amazon into doing better.

Competition is good.
Competent competition is betters.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

They were sold in the US in 2010 which was the time mentioned above (and beyond though how far beyond I can’t say for sure). I know when I got the Aura H2O people were still finding some stores in the US with Kobos though the numbers had been dropping. But that still would allow for stock to have dwindled over 4 years.

Kobo and Walmart teamed up in 2018. So really there were around 4 years Kobo weren’t being sold in the US (not including Amazon) and even through those years they were readily available via Amazon, Kobo, or Chapters.

Please tell me who Kobo's official US reseller was from the day Borders closed until Walmart started selling them?

Ordering from Kobo or Chapters would be importing the reader from Canada, which is what I remember people having to do before the Walmart partnership. If you are going to count that, you can import readers from anywhere, so everything is available everywhere.

The fact that Canada is a neighbor with a favorable exchange rate doesn't mean that Kobos were officially sold in the US.

And honestly, I'm pretty sure you are misremembering Kobos being sold on Amazon, unless they were sold by unofficial third party resellers.

I do remember looking for my first Kobo (this would be the 6" Kobo Aura). I don't remember anyone anywhere suggesting that Amazon sold Kobos. I wound up buying a refurb from a third party on eBay.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Competition is good.
Competent competition is betters.

For sure. Let's hope that Daunt and his crew are better than Riggio and his were. I really feel like Nook lost its way entirely due to mismanagement and negligence, rather than anything Amazon did.

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Please tell me who Kobo's official US reseller was from the day Borders closed until Walmart started selling them?

Ordering from Kobo or Chapters would be importing the reader from Canada, which is what I remember people having to do before the Walmart partnership. If you are going to count that, you can import readers from anywhere, so everything is available everywhere.


And honestly, I'm pretty sure you are misremembering Kobos being sold on Amazon, unless they were sold by unofficial third party resellers.

I do remember looking for my first Kobo (this would be the 6" Kobo Aura). I don't remember anyone anywhere suggesting that Amazon sold Kobos. I wound up buying a refurb from a third party on eBay.

1) you stated Kobo hadn’t sold ereaders in the US until recently. I’ve already shown that was wrong and stated that they did have a period of time where they were not selling in the US. I’ll even be generous and give that time as 2013 to 2018 (Kobo did exist in indie bookstores and Best Buy etc at some point after Borders collapse). So that’s 3 years ish of selling in the US prior to 2018 and Walmart. So please please tell me how in the world you can claim they weren’t sold here until recently.

2) please actually read what I said, I set the sale of kobo via amazon, kobo, and chapters as an aside not counting it as being sold in the country but they were still available to this country at a reasonable rate. Unlike Bookeen.

3) regardless of them being on Amazon officially or only through third party sellers they were still sold in the US prior to “recently” when they partnered with Walmart.

Honestly this is drop dead simple. You could buy a Kobo in the US at some point prior to 2018 and not just as some limited time pop up stand event. Thus your claim that they were only sold recently is incorrect.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

Honestly this is drop dead simple. You could buy a Kobo in the US at some point prior to 2018 and not just as some limited time pop up stand event. Thus your claim that they were only sold recently is incorrect.

Yeah, but from about 2012 or 2013 when Best Buy quit selling them, until about 2018 when Walmart started selling them, Kobos were mostly imported from Canada, or found at a handful of independent U.S. booksellers, or sold on the gray market in the U.S. This is not what you would really call a U.S. "presence." You had to have the "drive" to actually find a Kobo if you wanted to buy one.

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by rcentros

Yeah, but from about 2012 or 2013 when Best Buy quit selling them, until about 2018 when Walmart started selling them, Kobos were mostly imported from Canada, or found at a handful of independent U.S. booksellers, or sold on the gray market in the U.S. This is not what you would really call a U.S. "presence." You had to have the "drive" to actually find a Kobo if you wanted to buy one.

Right and I don’t dispute that. I’m just saying Kobos were sold in the US by major retailers prior to 2018. Which is why I’m a bit baffled by Zod not accepting he was mistaken in his initial statement.

Unless we’re counting the 2010 era as recently but in that case many companies didn’t sell ereaders until recently.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

Right and I don’t dispute that. I’m just saying Kobos were sold in the US by major retailers prior to 2018. Which is why I’m a bit baffled by Zod not accepting he was mistaken in his initial statement.

Unless we’re counting the 2010 era as recently but in that case many companies didn’t sell ereaders until recently.

I can't remember ever seeing a kindle in a store. I'm sure it happened somewhere, but I suspect that the majority of kindle buyers, like me, bought them online without physically handling them first. I bought both my Kobo's that way as well. Yes, there is a percentage of people who have to fondle the merchandise before they will buy it, but I think by this point, in store purchases isn't the driving force for ebook readers.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by rcentros

Yeah, but from about 2012 or 2013 when Best Buy quit selling them, until about 2018 when Walmart started selling them, Kobos were mostly imported from Canada, or found at a handful of independent U.S. booksellers, or sold on the gray market in the U.S. This is not what you would really call a U.S. "presence." You had to have the "drive" to actually find a Kobo if you wanted to buy one.

Well, not quite.
Kobo signed up the *entire* ABA membership to sell Kobos and Kobo ebooks in that same time period:

https://the-digital-reader.com/2012/...ld%20sign%20up.

They had a website pointing out local partners so it wasn't hit or miss.

They also signed a few prominent non-ABA booksellers like Powell's, as noted above. The partnership was a big enough splash that Amazon felt a need to respond with AMAZON SOURCE, which was open to bookstores *and* non-bookstore retailers:

https://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...Earn-10-Future

The kneejerk reaction from most bookstores was "Kindle no" because they had Kobo:

https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/...g-kindles.html

Independent booksellers who want to sell e-books have been able to sell Kobo devices and e-books for the past year. "We haven't become online Amazon affiliates, because we sell books ourselves," says Gayle Shanks, co-owner of Changing Hands Bookstore in Tempe, Ariz. "We won't become in-store Kindle affiliates for the same reason—we also sell e-readers and e-books. Plus, we've long been outspoken supporters of e-fairness initiatives, which, despite recently public posturing, Amazon has rigorously opposed."

It's not that Kobo doesn't *want* to sell into the US, they've run through a long list of partners--Borders, Best Buy, Target, THE ABA, Walmart. (Pretty much everbody except Rakuten.) They run their readers through FCC certification, after all. They *want* to sell in the US and have never stopped wanting to sell.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-t...76A4LJ20110711

It is that the US is a big, spread-out market, Kindle is dug in, and Amazon *competes*, matching competitors' moves and more, trying new things all the time, liie KIBDOE WORLDS and Kindle shorts.

Also, people tend to underestimate the impact of Kindle Unlimited; which has been skimming off a good chunk of the most avid readers since 2014. Yes, it's been that long.

Their author payouts are running around $400m and average around $2 per full read, so KU is siphoning off something like 200million reads from the retail market. If those were sales, those would be something north of $600M in sales or about a quarter of reported sales lost and turned rentals. There's also Prime Reads and the monthly Kindle free books. Those mostly APub, Indie, and small press, but reads are reads. All on Kindle.

And none of those existed, or mattered, in 2010.

The 2020 ereader market is very different from 2014 to say nothing of 2010.

[Deskisamess]

KU is wonderful for someone like me. In the past 7 days, I've read a 4 book "series" borrowed from KU. Each book is 220 pages or so, and would cost $3.99 each to purchase.

No way would I spend $15.96 for what amounted to 8-9 hours of reading of these lite fiction books. I don't anything about the publishing business, but I do know I like KU. It fits my reading habits, and many of the books have been fairly well done. It's a win win for me.