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Old 05-03-2020, 10:25 AM   #91
JSWolf
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Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
Yes we can.
The publishers, who set the price for agency books, can choose to pass on the price reduction or not. There is nothing in any way illegal about them not doing so.
This was announced to everyone's surprised, coming into effect on a Friday. It isn't at all odd that everyone hasn't reacted immediately.
If the prices haven't changed by next week, that means something.
We can revisit the issue on Friday and see where we are at.
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Old 05-03-2020, 10:42 AM   #92
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Customers are supposed to be paying less, not the same.
Says who?
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Old 05-03-2020, 10:49 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
No, customers are supposed to not paying any VAT. The hope is that the reduction in VAT will be passed on. But, it isn't illegal for it not to be.
Correct. And there's no reason to believe they are charged a fake VAT, is there?
Just that the listed price hasn't changed.

And, just as adding VAT to ebooks bought outside the EU didn't always raise prices, dropping the VAT rate is no guarantee prices will drop. It's all publisher by publisher, book by book. Specific Publishers might decide that if a specific book was selling well at the VAT-laden price, it is properly priced and there is no reason to drop the price and will instead pocket the differential.

The timing also doesn't help: pbook sales are limited in places where (non-essential) bookstores are still closed. So that hidden profit boost will come in handy to make up the shortfall.

Last edited by fjtorres; 05-03-2020 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 05-03-2020, 11:21 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by stumped View Post
no, actually, it had been announced long ago, planned for 1st December

then an announcement was made a few days before may 1st, bringing the date forward to then.
I believe it was made after 5pm on the day before?
So 0 working days in advance.

And, again, for agency eBooks Amazon and Kobo cannot just lower prices, they are set by the publisher. Part of that price-setting decision on the part of the publisher is setting eBook prices relative to pBook prices.

From Amazon's statement (my emphasis): “For titles where Amazon sets the price, we will reduce the prices of books not already on promotion,” said a spokesperson. “After receiving today’s notification, we are working as fast as possible to lower prices for customers.”
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Old 05-03-2020, 11:25 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
We don't know if this is true or not. The intention was for eBook prices to go down, not stay the same. I cannot say if it is legal or not what's going on at Amazon.
People keep telling you that you do not understand how VAT works, and you keep ignoring them.
There is nothing illegal whatsoever about the listed price not changing when the VAT rate changes. There isn't. People who live in countries with VAT, who understand how it works, keep telling you that. Perhaps they are right?

"Intention" and "legal" have nothing whatsover to do with each other.
The legal impact of the change is that the retailer no longer needs to take 20% of the purchase price and (after deducting their own import VAT) pass that on to the government.
The government would like a price reduction to be made to pass the savings on to the consumer, but there is nothing whatsoever that legally requires that to be done.
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Old 05-03-2020, 11:42 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
I believe it was made after 5pm on the day before?
So 0 working days in advance.

...

From Amazon's statement (my emphasis): “For titles where Amazon sets the price, we will reduce the prices of books not already on promotion,” said a spokesperson. “After receiving today’s notification, we are working as fast as possible to lower prices for customers.”
1. you are right, it was announced on 30 April by HM Treasury, I can't find an exact time. but that same announcement also removed vat from Covid 19 PPE ( which was not a previously scheduled change) . so also 0 working days in advance. As I had previosuly posted UK govt has a track record of announcing immediate VAT changes ( and other duties like petrol , spirits, cigarettes - & expecting them to be implemented from that midnight
Published 30 April 2020
From:
HM Treasury
"From tomorrow (1 May 2020), PPE purchased by care homes, businesses, charities and individuals to protect against Covid-19 will be free from VAT for a three-month period.".
I doubt we will see many " the price of this N95 mask was set by the manufacturer" cop-outs

2. what would be more interesting , but I have no idea how to find out, is what % of e books at amazon are ones where "Amazon sets the price" - I suspect its a low figure

Last edited by stumped; 05-03-2020 at 11:45 AM.
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Old 05-03-2020, 12:00 PM   #97
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2. what would be more interesting , but I have no idea how to find out, is what % of e books at amazon are ones where "Amazon sets the price" - I suspect its a low figure
Amazon's goal is to be a PUBLISHER. They do have authors and titles already. They might even buy an existing paper publisher. They bought Mobipocket and the two outfits that they merged to make CreateSpace. Then later both of those were sucked in.
They are vertically integrating. They've bought more delivery trucks than some couriers have and may outstrip well known ones in size soon.
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Old 05-03-2020, 12:05 PM   #98
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if the "no actual price reductions " story get into mainstream media ( no signs of it yet) Amazon will look morally culpable even if they are legally sound

and if it's the publishers, not amazon who are temporarily profiting, it's in Amazon's interests to get those contracts changed a.s.a.p and put a positive spin on it

I saw that the always-on-the-ball guys at goodreader have a new article about wonderful book price reductions happening
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Old 05-03-2020, 12:10 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stumped View Post
I doubt we will see many " the price of this N95 mask was set by the manufacturer" cop-outs
The e-book contractual agency pricing debacle has been in effect for years. I suggest you read up on it.
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Old 05-03-2020, 12:21 PM   #100
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The e-book contractual agency pricing debacle has been in effect for years. I suggest you read up on it.
I am aware of the history , actually. Hoping that some smart investigative journalism now , triggered by an apparent moral failure to make the price reductions happen, will shine new light into it.
Unfortunately , the UK tabloids remain fixated on Boris's babies C'est la vie
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Old 05-03-2020, 01:23 PM   #101
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I am aware of the history , actually. Hoping that some smart investigative journalism now , triggered by an apparent moral failure to make the price reductions happen, will shine new light into it.
Unfortunately , the UK tabloids remain fixated on Boris's babies C'est la vie
The articles mentioning Amazon and the VAT reduction are rubbish. They do not mention the VAT debacle.
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Old 05-03-2020, 01:42 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by stumped View Post
if the "no actual price reductions " story get into mainstream media ( no signs of it yet) Amazon will look morally culpable even if they are legally sound

and if it's the publishers, not amazon who are temporarily profiting, it's in Amazon's interests to get those contracts changed a.s.a.p and put a positive spin on it
That's not how those contracts work.
They only concern the split between Amazon and the publisher. Which is 30/70.
Amazon has no control over pricing.
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Old 05-03-2020, 02:12 PM   #103
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That's not how those contracts work.
They only concern the split between Amazon and the publisher. Which is 30/70.
Amazon has no control over pricing.
So, if that is true, then where the retail price is unchanged, Amazon is pocketing 30% of what was the vat, and publisher is pocketing the other 70%. Or to put it another way, they are keeping the 20% that previously went to the govt. Which the govt intended to give back to the public as a price reduction.


If so, they are both morally repugnant.

Case needs a good whstle blower.
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Old 05-03-2020, 03:10 PM   #104
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Says who?
I thought it was immplied by the government (from the other VAT thread):

Quote:
"The objective of this measure is to support literacy and reading in all its forms. Following the outbreak of the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic and the need for people to stay at home, the government has decided to bring forward the implementation date to 1 May 2020 to reduce the cost of access to online publications during these challenging times when many people are confined to their homes and schools are closed."
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Old 05-03-2020, 03:17 PM   #105
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I thought it was immplied by the government (from the other VAT thread):

Quote:
"The objective of this measure is to support literacy and reading in all its forms. Following the outbreak of the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic and the need for people to stay at home, the government has decided to bring forward the implementation date to 1 May 2020 to reduce the cost of access to online publications during these challenging times when many people are confined to their homes and schools are closed."
You are correct. The reason for the government moving the VAT removal on eBooks to now is so people can but eBooks for less during the lockdown.

This keeping the prices the same as with VAT is against the spirit and not helping the public buy eBooks for less.
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