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Old 07-14-2018, 07:07 AM   #16
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My dreams aren't spoiled in the least. I'm just voicing my opinion. I help maintain Sigil and I wouldn't use its WYSIWYG editor to write a recipe, let alone a book. Its formatting tools/features are clunky and not nearly as intuitive and/or powerful as the most ascetic word processing applications. I would rather write a novel in WordPad and paste the contents into Sigil than try to do it in Sigil's Book View.

But use Sigil any way you see fit. I'm happy it meets most of your expectations/dreams. Just know that you may want to keep track of one of the installers for a current version of Sigil. Because Book View is a nightmare to maintain (and a true boat anchor where future Sigil development is concerned) and will eventually go away. At this point, the only development being done on Book View is fixing crashes and making sure it doesn't generate invalid code.
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Old 07-14-2018, 08:18 AM   #17
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Because Book View is a nightmare to maintain (and a true boat anchor where future Sigil development is concerned) and will eventually go away. At this point, the only development being done on Book View is fixing crashes and making sure it doesn't generate invalid code.
I've seen this so many times repeated (not just from DiapDealer) the last few years. And since most questions/angry posts/pleadings about Sigil comes from users trying to use Sigil for various purposes it was never meant for, usually misguided by the (not so) wysiwyg BookView, haven't the time come to bite the bullet and remove the blasted thing?

- Just a thought …

Regards,

Kim
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Old 07-14-2018, 08:55 AM   #18
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I've seen this so many times repeated (not just from DiapDealer) the last few years. And since most questions/angry posts/pleadings about Sigil comes from users trying to use Sigil for various purposes it was never meant for, usually misguided by the (not so) wysiwyg BookView, haven't the time come to bite the bullet and remove the blasted thing?

- Just a thought …

Regards,

Kim
Of course it's time. But if you saw how intertwined it is in all of Sigil's logic, you'd understand that the process of a successful BookView-ectomy isn't going to be a straightforward process at all.

It's going to be a matter of removing something and then testing everything to see what broke as a result and figuring out how to fix it. It means potentially leaving the tree in a broken or unstable state for long periods of time--something we're always loathe to do. Or worse yet, stopping all current Sigil development/progress/bugfixes while we work in a new development branch (so we don't have to deal with merging concurrent commits from two separate branches into one coherent branch down the road). All in the handful of spare hours either of us have to contribute at any given time.

So you'll have to forgive us if we choose to take a seemingly inordinate amount of time preparing and warning users, and laying out a plan for successfully, carefully and hopefully seamlessly, excising an integral part of Sigil's codebase instead of just "getting on with it." It's not like Book View is a block of code we can just delete.
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:30 AM   #19
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So you'll have to forgive us if we choose to take a seemingly inordinate amount of time preparing and warning users, and laying out a plan for successfully, carefully and hopefully seamlessly, excising an integral part of Sigil's codebase instead of just "getting on with it." It's not like Book View is a block of code we can just delete.
Oh, I'll forgive you - and thanks for clarifying

It's just that it's saturday, it's rather hot here in Denmark (by danish standards anyway), so I got philosophical and couldn't resist "putting my thoughts in print" …

Regards,

Kim
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:39 AM   #20
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Oh, I'll forgive you - and thanks for clarifying

It's just that it's saturday, it's rather hot here in Denmark (by danish standards anyway), so I got philosophical and couldn't resist "putting my thoughts in print" …

Regards,

Kim
Fair enough. We're in for a scorcher here in the US midwest, too.
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Old 07-14-2018, 10:29 AM   #21
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Fair enough. We're in for a scorcher here in the US midwest, too.
After 30+ years, I finally broke down and bought an A/C for my home office. We have ha more days of 100+ this year, than in the last decade. At least, the Humidity is low
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Old 07-14-2018, 11:01 AM   #22
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At least, the Humidity is low
I've never felt comforted by the "at least it's a dry heat" notion.

I despise ovens and saunas equally.
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Old 07-14-2018, 12:04 PM   #23
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I've never felt comforted by the "at least it's a dry heat" notion.

I despise ovens and saunas equally.
Low, not dry.
I grew up in NJ where summers were 98 and 98%
We run ~50% here in the Bay area
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Old 07-14-2018, 12:25 PM   #24
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Yeah, but I have desert friends who try to convince me that their 100° dry weather is more comfortable than my 93° and humid. I've been to the desert. I'm calling B.S. Hot's hot. It's like asking the potsticker whether it prefers death by steam or frying pan.

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Old 07-14-2018, 03:50 PM   #25
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Yeah, but I have desert friends who try to convince me that their 100° dry weather is more comfortable than my 93° and humid. I've been to the desert. I'm calling B.S. Hot's hot. It's like asking the potsticker whether it prefers death by steam or frying pan.
I live in that oven--the desert SW of the USA. You're right. It's an idiotic thing to say. Yes, there's some accuracy to the tolerability of heat that's dry, versus heat that's wet; breathing is easier, sans the humidity. But aside from that, when it's 118F, nobody gives two shets about how comfy our brethren in St. Louis are, for example. It's just bloody hot.

I nearly scorched my nethers, yesterday, doing naught but making a run to our mailbox, which is 1/2 mile from my home. All well and good to stroll to it in the winter, but in the summer, no, thanks. My batmobile is temporarily living on the driveway, due to some miscellany showing up and occupying her residency in the garage, and OMFG, I'm lucky my damn skin wasn't stuck to the leather when I disembarked.

Hot is hot.


Now, back to our scheduled topic:

Nexo wrote:

Quote:
As an author, I always dreamed of a tool that would offer the possibility to write an eBook directly within an eBook editor, because I am not interested in technical issues, but want to write, save - and have an eBook. As long as the publishing channel is eBook only, I do not see any sense in writing the book in a word processor and then waste my time converting and adjusting the code.

I met Sigil only a few weeks ago - and my wildest dreams seemed to come true, because Sigil does exactly that. I wrote my last book directly in Sigil. There ist not much missing for the perfect writer's tool - just find & replace and spell checking in Book View. I am sure: If Sigil would add this functionality, many more professional authors would love to use it.
Well, as an author, you oughtn't give two hoots about how the sausage is eventually made. However, as a self-publisher, you do. As a commercial formatter, I run into this all the time; authors want a magic tool, where they can type their books, hit a button, and PRESTO!, out comes a perfectly formatted ebook, with no application of skill, knowledge, or money. How nice that that's your dream.

I mean...I dream of a world where I can sit at my keyboard, just push a few buttons, and out comes a perfect mystery novel! With no skill, knowledge, or money! After all, that's the same exact thing, right? I want to do the same thing that writers do, without knowing HOW. Nothing wrong with that, right???????

/sarcasm.
.
.
.

Unfortunately, for the "dream," eBooks are not simply the result of word-processors; if they were, all those magic programs would already exist. In my experience--which is vast, in terms of viewing the manuscripts of those authors, over the last decade (I've just sent out my 6,447th quote...), I do not see one manuscript, not one, out of 100, in which authors have bothered to even learn the concepts of styles or headings. Without that knowledge, then no magic tool is usable, because the fundamental concepts of HTML rule the reality of eBooks. It's the fundamental reality of word-processors, too, which are built in HTML, under the hood.

You can do exactly what you want to do, @nexo, using Word or OO or AWP, or any number of WPs. All you have to do, as Kevin correctly pointed out, is use your Word processor correctly. That's it. Use your own word processor--which, conveniently, will have spellcheck for you--and then export it to HTML and put it in Sigil. Go from there. Alternatively, use AWP. Write in the word processor, push a button, and out comes an eBook. Only $40.00. Practically FREE.

That's it. That's ALL you have to do. If you can learn to use Styles and headings, you'll be fine. Magic accomplished.



Hitch

Last edited by Hitch; 07-14-2018 at 06:48 PM. Reason: "scarcasm" typo, duh.
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Old 07-14-2018, 04:04 PM   #26
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You can do exactly what you want to do, @nexo, using Word or OO or AWP, or any number of WPs. All you have to do, as Kevin correctly pointed out, is use your Word processor correctly. That's it. Use your own word processor--which, conveniently, will have spellcheck for you--and then export it to HTML and put it in Sigil. Go from there. Alternatively, use AWP. Write in the word processor, push a button, and out comes an eBook. Only $40.00. Practically FREE.

Hitch
Using LibreOffice you don't even need to do the export to HTML - just install an extension and use the export to EPUB option and you will have the same facilities as AWP but without spending $40.00 (or even $1). I gather that with LO 6 the export to epub is built-in ( https://the-digital-reader.com/2018/...s-epub-ebooks/ ) rather than an extension, though perhaps not yet mature.

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Old 07-14-2018, 05:09 PM   #27
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Using LibreOffice you don't even need to do the export to HTML - just install an extension and use the export to EPUB option and you will have the same facilities as AWP but without spending $40.00 (or even $1). I gather that with LO 6 the export to epub is built-in ( https://the-digital-reader.com/2018/...s-epub-ebooks/ ) rather than an extension, though perhaps not yet mature.

BobC
Dunno, BobC, but I know that there are any number of LO users here who can speak to that.

I know that Toxaris' ePUBTools plugin is also amazeballs for going Word-->ePUB.

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Old 07-14-2018, 06:34 PM   #28
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I gather that with LO 6 the export to epub is built-in ( https://the-digital-reader.com/2018/...s-epub-ebooks/ ) rather than an extension, though perhaps not yet mature.
The built-in LO epub export filter is definitely not yet mature. For details see this post.
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Old 07-14-2018, 08:18 PM   #29
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<snip>

It's the fundamental reality of word-processors, too, which are built in HTML, under the hood.

<snip>
If that's true, why is it no website application I've ever used has a fraction of the usability of Word/Writer, Excel/Calc. Powerpoint/Impress etc.

BR
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Old 07-15-2018, 01:23 PM   #30
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If that's true, why is it no website application I've ever used has a fraction of the usability of Word/Writer, Excel/Calc. Powerpoint/Impress etc.

BR
Red:

Not a programmer, bro. Thus, I can't answer. But I suspect that the ability to completely control the environment, like a word-processor, with a specific set of tasks/abilities, gives you perceived power. For example, how you can create pretty much any kind of list, with custom numbering, in a word-processor--but you can't, in HTML, not without sacrificing perfect hanging indents.

The thing I find about "web" applications or many programs, is that their power is in their flexibility, to do many things--but there's a massive learning curve involved, and that power makes them harder for the user to manage. I mean...for example, Wordpress versus eZPublish (CMSes). Wordpress is dead easy. You can be braindead and still make a viable blog. eZPublish, on the other hand, can be used to run (and does) a CondeNast website, with all its massive functionality, displays, etc. But using eZPublish is a freaking nightmare, if you no-speaka-de-code. But if you need a big-ass website that has all kinds of functionality, from blogging to sliders to contact forms to forums to this to that to the next thing, eZPublish can and will do it. IF you can make it do so, LOL.

That's my two cents, but inarguably, word processors are built on HTML. I mean, look at WordPerfect; disguised, GUI HTML, no more, no less. Opening and closing codes, just like HTML. Word changed that up, so that the closing code contains all the styles, etc., for the preceding element, but...SSDD. That's why exports from Word, etc., are practically eBook-ready, if the user/author has used headings and styles.

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