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Old 07-11-2018, 11:56 AM   #16
raydeng
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Just to circle back here: the Google Play app works flawlessly on my Onyx Boox Note.

That being said, I've been less than impressed with the performance of the Android apps themselves. They lag quite a bit, even though they "work."

Specifically, I've yet to find a "save it later" app (I've tried both Pocket and Instapaper) that has a smooth experience, both scrolling and highlighting.

1. Have you found any better "save it later" reading apps?
2. I plan to use the Note with ePubs in Neoreader. The highlighting functionality is good here but I don't know of a way to save the highlights. Do you know? Or is there a file format that I can use in Neoreader that is better for this? PDF?
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:43 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by raydeng View Post
Specifically, I've yet to find a "save it later" app (I've tried both Pocket and Instapaper) that has a smooth experience, both scrolling and highlighting.
it is eink, no matter what cpu you throw at the device, is never going to be an smooth experience. I am using pocket, relay for reddit, materialistic for HN and other app daily for dozens of articles and I don't have a problem with it, but I knew before buying it what I should expect.

What I miss for those app though, is the page up/page down layout the onyx browser have, that should make browsing with third party apps using that instead of finger scroll much easier.

As for highlighting, you can lower the android long press delay making everything faster if that's what you are saying

https://www.xda-developers.com/how-t...owest-setting/

if you are talking about the stylus lag in third party apps, then yes, onyx should start using the android SDK instead their own or copy the samsung s-pen one that also works fine.

Last edited by whopper; 07-12-2018 at 12:51 AM.
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Old 07-12-2018, 03:25 AM   #18
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sure, expectations are the most important thing when it comes to lag.

That being said, what *is* a surprise is the lag that I experience from merely typing on a bluetooth keyboard. This occurs in every app, which was not what I saw in the reviews.

Also: is there a way we can export the highlights that we make while reading ePubs in the Neoreader app?
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Old 07-12-2018, 05:44 AM   #19
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sure, expectations are the most important thing when it comes to lag.

That being said, what *is* a surprise is the lag that I experience from merely typing on a bluetooth keyboard. This occurs in every app, which was not what I saw in the reviews.

Also: is there a way we can export the highlights that we make while reading ePubs in the Neoreader app?
Yes, there is an option to export everything, highlights, anotations, stylus writing. Look for the export option on the manual, sometimes is exported as the full PDF with the new notes, others as a TXT file.

As for the lag with bluetooth, maybe the video reviews are recorded with the screen A2 mode and you are using the A? How many lag are we talking about? Can you make a video?

Last edited by whopper; 07-12-2018 at 06:04 AM.
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:20 AM   #20
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That being said, what *is* a surprise is the lag that I experience from merely typing on a bluetooth keyboard. This occurs in every app, which was not what I saw in the reviews
As I reported on a YT local reply (Onyx Boox Max2 - Word processing with Kingsoft Office), I get 0.25 .. 0.30 of a second before screen reaction.
Yes, I would also expect less. Not critical though.
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:36 AM   #21
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As for the lag with bluetooth, maybe the video reviews are recorded with the screen A2 mode and you are using the A?
Getting a reaction time of 0.25 plus a screen update time of 0.3s in GU, I would initially believe that the reaction time will not change, but if the total 0.55s is typical of GU and then maybe what appears a reaction time is in fact part of the screen update.
If one wants to try, 0.125s being the constant screen update of A2, just subtract that from the lap "click-to-rendered".

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A2 mode and you are using the A?
If you are supposing that "A" is "what is prior to A2", I doubt it: I would love to see the original technical paper, but I tend to believe that 'A2' may mean something more like "Alternating two [B/W]".
What I got of the naming I posted here:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...&postcount=371

Last edited by mdp; 07-13-2018 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 07-13-2018, 07:11 PM   #22
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I think I get similar reaction times, which I consider very laggy for me. Most bluetooth keyboard - tablet setups I've used get 0.10 or less.

As for saving annotations and highlights, I still don't think there's a way to do it. I am talking specifically about Neoreader ePub annotations and highlights, not when you read PDFs and annotate in Neoreader or using the Note taking app.

Has anyone found a way to export Neoreader ePub annotations and highlights?
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Old 07-13-2018, 07:31 PM   #23
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I hope that the following will not open up age-old debates about e-ink for non-e-ink tablets. So many of these debates come down to first principles: what do you value? For me, I value the following:

1. Lightweight for hand holding and for being mobile. IMO, I don't think e-ink readers get enough credit for being lighter than all other tablets. This makes the experience of hand holding very different while reading.
2. Good daytime reading (very limited screen glare), good contrast
3. The ability to sync annotations and highlights with an app that can read ePubs.
3. Good compatibility with bluetooth keyboard
4. Ability to use word editing apps such as Evernote, Google Docs, etc. with minimal lag.

What I explicitly do not care for (please please please do not make an argument based on these first principles because I don't care about them!):

1. Better sleep or eye strain. IMO, there is very little evidence e-ink is better than back illuminated screens, particularly because the few published studies used back illuminated screens at full light without the use of a blue-light program such as f.lux.

That being said, I definitely think there is an advantage in the reading experience, particularly with glare and reading in full sunlight.
2. Watching videos.
3. Writing using a pen.
4. iOS apps.

I am currently on the fence in terms of returning the Boox Note or not. IMO, I have three options:

(1) Return the Boox Note for the Boox Note S and relegate it to a read-only experience. I will be largely using the Neoreader app and Instapaper for reading, but won't be doing much writing on it. With only 1g of RAM, I'm sure it will be even slower writing experience. Does anyone know what the weight difference is?

(2) Used iPad, likely the 9.7'' screen. Not as good of a reading experience, particularly in full sunlight (glare, not bright enough) and slightly heavier at around 440g. Much much better writing experience. I'll buy an matte screen protector to prevent glare.

(3) Android tablet, such as Samsung Galaxy S2, which weights slightly heavier at 390g, with matte screen protector to prevent glare. Lighter than tablet and heavier than the Boox Note. I'm not particularly beholden to iOS apps, though I know that iBooks is good for exporting annotations/highlights I make on ePubs. Is there an Android equivalent?

Thanks so much for your time and expertise!
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Old 07-14-2018, 03:58 AM   #24
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I think I get similar reaction times, which I consider very laggy for me. Most bluetooth keyboard - tablet setups I've used get 0.10 or less
I was intrigued about checking since I never did with A2: I get 0.33s from key-up to fully black character on screen, which means that there is an extra, weird 0.2s, I do not know really where it comes from - as I would doubt that receiving the signal and processing the response takes so much time.

Well, on the other hand, it's 0.1s on your common setup (even that could be better checked since I am not sure you are talking perceptively or as-measured) vs 0.2s on the Onyx device. A difference of a tenth of a second is both remarkable (why?) and not remarkable (small). The rest is the official EPD rendering time.

Nonetheless, I suppose that in the lag before the screen starts reacting, the screen is still involved (e.g. "preparing" the change). The delays intrinsic in EPD must extend to before screen reaction.
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Old 07-14-2018, 04:48 AM   #25
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1. Lightweight for hand holding and for being mobile. IMO, I don't think e-ink readers get enough credit for being lighter than all other tablets.
The numeric data is there, e.g. on wikipedia: in the page-sized range, from 30g for the ED060KC1 to 68g for the ES133TT3. I would not have expected LCD-similar displays to be heavier. A quick search does not produce data.

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2. Good daytime reading (very limited screen glare), good contrast
Nowadays, the glare values heavily depend on the quality of the matte film you will superimpose, because most of the screens (mobility) are not matte out-of-the-factory. (They are not ready out-of-the-factory.)

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3. Good compatibility with bluetooth keyboard
4. Ability to use word editing apps such as Evernote, Google Docs, etc. with minimal lag
As you realize, lag is intrinsic to EPD at this stage.

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IMO, there is very little evidence e-ink is better than back illuminated screens
There is no need for studies to state that back illuminated screens can irritate the eyes, because it is empirical.
It is worth reminding that it is the full environmental context that reduces or boosts eyes fatigue. In general, with traditional displays you should mostly regulate (control, limit) the surrounding lights, and with even more traditional reflective material from carved bark on, you oppositely mostly regulate the surrounding shades.
To regulate the surrounding light with back illuminated screens means getting the correct balance between being blinded and squinting. But this happens because it will always be a fight against the environmental light. Carved bark, papyrus blackboards flipcharts and EPD, on the opposite, use that environmental light, with advantages in efficacy and in energy requirements. And nonetheless, they require regulation. Many people with eye strain induce it because Weiner was bad in PR.

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Return the Boox Note for the Boox Note S and relegate it to a read-only experience
You stated you want «Good daytime reading». Are you aware you are comparing the 226 DPI, 1872x1404 of the Note's ES103TC1, with the 150 DPI, 1200x825 of the ED097TC2? You have no problem with low resolution? Have you tried?

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With only 1g of RAM, I'm sure it will be even slower writing experience.
No, I do not believe that RAM will change that speed. When you have enough, that's all you need.
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Old 07-15-2018, 03:46 PM   #26
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the ram issue makes sense. Using the multi-tasking tool (where you can see all the various apps that are open on the Note), I'm seeing I commonly use around 0.8 - 1.2g of ram.

Does this mean that the Note S's 1g is not enough for me?

Also re: DPI, that is a fantastic question: I quite like the look of the Note when opening large files, so I will have to merely test the Note S in comparison.

Does anyone know of a way to export highlights via Neoreader? Or perhaps use IFTTT?
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Old 07-19-2018, 04:35 PM   #27
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Anyone? Does anyone have a solution to read ePubs on an Onyx Boox Note and be able to collect / export highlights?
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:39 PM   #28
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Anyone? Does anyone have a solution to read ePubs on an Onyx Boox Note and be able to collect / export highlights?
Although it is not a very elegant workaround, you could install a screensaver app such as Screenshottouch and preserve any important notes or highlights by taking screenshots of them. You could then easily copy or send the screenshots to any other device.

I know, it is a very clumsy and cumbersome process, but until you can find a more efficient process, you could use it as a stopgap measure to save any important work.
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Old 07-24-2018, 07:43 PM   #29
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That does seem like quite the cumbersome workaround.

Does anyone know of a better app?
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Old 07-26-2018, 07:09 PM   #30
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Anyone? Does anyone have a solution to read ePubs on an Onyx Boox Note and be able to collect / export highlights?
On p. 23 of the manual, it says: "All annotations will auto-generate a file named filename-annotation.txt and it will be saved in the path of the source file." Presumably this works for both pdf and epub files in the Neo2 reader.

I haven't tried it, but it may work for you.
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