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Old 11-24-2020, 10:13 AM   #46
Quoth
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Some contracts and licence agreements are actually dishonest, immoral, unenforceable or even illegal. Rarely has anyone the money, time and ability to challenge them.

Don't assume a licence condition can be enforced or is even legal in your own country. Even for paper books, DVD, CD, Vinyl, Cassette, player piano rolls etc you are buying the media and a licence to personally consume the content. Because it's on a physical medium you can pass on the medium. You can't distribute copies of it, free or not.

Software licences can be passed on now in some countries, no matter if there is a physical medium or not. Simplest if there is a dongle. However a condition is that all copies, installations and backups have to be destroyed. That may even need to be audited and the supplier informed in writing.

With Steam, the user needs to delete the item that's distributed by DVD from their account or someone else can't install it.

However a registered DRM is not the solution as DRM is evil.

Commercial pirates find it trivial to make copies of a BD or DVD or a PAPER book, and even make epubs & kindle ebooks from paper ARC.
It's simple to point a camera at a big TV in a dark room, but actually a lot of pirated cinema / video content beats disc release by using an insider in the studio or at a cinema projection booth.

It's absolutely NOT stealing to have ONE copy (or any number for PERSONAL use) and later destroy all and pass it one.

But this is theft, and Amazon is doing it! https://www.thebookdesigner.com/2020...medium=twitter
This is essentially persuading customers of Audible to commit fraud. Amazon benefits and it makes an Audible subscription attractive. No-one ever even pays for ONE copy! That's not the same as buying paper books or ebooks and leaving them in your will, or giving an ebook to ONE person and deleting all your own copies.


As is this by Disney: https://www.sfwa.org/2020/11/18/disney-must-pay/
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Old 11-24-2020, 10:25 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Sarmat89 View Post
But that is stealing.
I back up my books for my personal enjoyment. No one in my family reads the same books I do so I do not even share them. I have had different eReaders die on me over the years and I do not want to lose the right to read the books I paid money to read. I also reread and no where does any agreement limit how many times I read a book. So no it is not stealing.
You just called me a thief and I resent it.
RANT ON:
I do not understand how people can casually call someone a thief without any proof. I have had people walk into my store, for a repair, and casually ask me if I am going to switch their diamond. When I inform them that they just implied that I was a thief they get real embarrassed. I also tell them that my reputation is worth more than their diamond. This is especially true true because most that ask this question have stones worth less than $100.00. I have never had a customer with a 5 carat diamond ask me if I was going to switch their stone. :RANT OFF
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Old 11-24-2020, 07:16 PM   #48
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I back up my books for my personal enjoyment. No one in my family reads the same books I do so I do not even share them. I have had different eReaders die on me over the years and I do not want to lose the right to read the books I paid money to read. I also reread and no where does any agreement limit how many times I read a book. So no it is not stealing.
You just called me a thief and I resent it.
RANT ON:
I do not understand how people can casually call someone a thief without any proof. I have had people walk into my store, for a repair, and casually ask me if I am going to switch their diamond. When I inform them that they just implied that I was a thief they get real embarrassed. I also tell them that my reputation is worth more than their diamond. This is especially true true because most that ask this question have stones worth less than $100.00. I have never had a customer with a 5 carat diamond ask me if I was going to switch their stone. :RANT OFF
Apache
So you are upset that no one with a 5 caret diamond has asked you if you were going to switch their stone?

Most people tend to be live and let live as long as you don't rub their face in something. There are some people so caught up in their own self righteousness that everything is black or white for them (unless of course, they are the ones doing it, in which case it's perfectly already). In the US, it seems to be generally held that backing things up is perfectly alright. Backing up computer programs is expressly allowed in US copyright law. Backing up general files is something that hasn't been litigated, but it's been implied that it's ok as long as it's for your own use. This goes all the way back to the Betamax case. So, no it's not stealing and no one is going to go after you. People are basically satisfied with where things are. The current situation keep Aunt Gertrude from sharing her ebooks with everyone in her reading club. If they really wanted to, they could have gone after Apprentice Alf years ago.
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Old 11-24-2020, 08:55 PM   #49
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Most people tend to be live and let live as long as you don't rub their face in something. There are some people so caught up in their own self righteousness that everything is black or white for them (unless of course, they are the ones doing it, in which case it's perfectly already).
Unfortunately this is all too true. They also unfortunately often have big mouths and loud voices and use them to rant at people who they see as not conforming to their black and white views.
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Old 11-24-2020, 11:09 PM   #50
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Came across an interesting article sometime ago. The person had all her books deleted off her kindle. The reason was she bought them from Amazon in a different country.

Turns out Amazon don't sell ebooks they sell licences and the ebooks where not licensed for her country. Yes that icon you click on " buy the ebook" really means buy a licence for the ebook.

My question is are you also only buying a licence from places like kobo, B&N etc?


Hi Gandulf

If the news was true then its not cool at all but i think it was most probably due to some technical issues and having a back up is always recommended. As far as i know eBook in amazon made available worldwide and once your purchased it and its should be yours!. Interestingly, Amazon also make it possible for all reader to have access for free using their free app!

[Self-promotion link deleted.]

Last edited by pdurrant; 11-25-2020 at 03:07 AM.
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Old 11-24-2020, 11:41 PM   #51
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Hi Gandulf

As far as i know eBook in amazon made available worldwide and once your purchased it and its should be yours![/url]


Regards,
Chris
I have had a purchased Kindle ebook deleted from my account when switching Amazon affiliates. Some years ago, I bought a book from Amazon.com and when (on being repeatedly urged to do so), I switched to an Amazon closer to my home country, the book was "no longer available in your library". It still showed in purchase history, but that was the only sign of its existence, I never did get to read it.
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Old 11-24-2020, 11:53 PM   #52
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Hi Gandulf

If the news was true then its not cool at all but i think it was most probably due to some technical issues and having a back up is always recommended. As far as i know eBook in amazon made available worldwide and once your purchased it and its should be yours!. Interestingly, Amazon also make it possible for all reader to have access for free using their free app!
This is more a matter of having the rights to sell a book in a geographical area. There are books for sale on amazon.co.uk that are not available on amazon.com or amazon.ca. I can buy them by playing games with my location but that does violate Amazon's terms so I don't have much to complain about if they catch me and remove those books from my devices. I do have an account with amazon.com and I can use it to purchase many items if they ship to my area. When it comes to ebooks? See the attached image. Back when I could purchase ebooks from amazon.com since amazon.ca did not offer them, I purchased some ebooks. All but one of them were transferred to my amazon.ca account. The one that wasn't was due to the publisher of the book in the USA not being the same as the publisher in Canada. I was given a credit for the book which was a bit silly since short of buying a gift card from amazon.com for myself, there's no good way to transfer funds.
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Old 11-25-2020, 12:00 AM   #53
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. I was given a credit for the book which was a bit silly since short of buying a gift card from amazon.com for myself, there's no good way to transfer funds.
That was more than I was offered. I understood the reason why the book was removed, as you outlined in your comment. No gesture of compensation/apology was offered though.
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Old 11-25-2020, 01:25 AM   #54
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That was more than I was offered. I understood the reason why the book was removed, as you outlined in your comment. No gesture of compensation/apology was offered though.
Possibly since I was given no choice in switching. I could no longer purchase ebooks from amazon.com after they switched my ebook account to amazon.ca with no option to remain with amazon.com.
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Old 11-25-2020, 01:28 AM   #55
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I back up my books for my personal enjoyment. No one in my family reads the same books I do so I do not even share them. I have had different eReaders die on me over the years and I do not want to lose the right to read the books I paid money to read. I also reread and no where does any agreement limit how many times I read a book. So no it is not stealing.
You just called me a thief and I resent it.
RANT ON:
I do not understand how people can casually call someone a thief without any proof. I have had people walk into my store, for a repair, and casually ask me if I am going to switch their diamond. When I inform them that they just implied that I was a thief they get real embarrassed. I also tell them that my reputation is worth more than their diamond. This is especially true true because most that ask this question have stones worth less than $100.00. I have never had a customer with a 5 carat diamond ask me if I was going to switch their stone. :RANT OFF
Apache
I get asked this all the time; people try to find polite ways to ask me "how do I know that you won't steal my manuscript?"

It's...infuriating. I mean, do you think that when they send their manuscripts to agents or publishers, that they ask them that? Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

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Old 11-25-2020, 01:34 AM   #56
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I get asked this all the time; people try to find polite ways to ask me "how do I know that you won't steal my manuscript?"

It's...infuriating. I mean, do you think that when they send their manuscripts to agents or publishers, that they ask them that? Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Hitch
I suspect everyone has had clients about which the only good thing to say is that they paid their bills on time.
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Old 11-25-2020, 09:45 AM   #57
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I suspect everyone has had clients about which the only good thing to say is that they paid their bills on time.
Oh, yes, but the customers that ask that wouldn't make that list, just for that question. We have so many that are far worse than that, that just asking how they know I'm not a thief doesn't rise to the "Crap Customer" list.

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Old 11-25-2020, 09:59 AM   #58
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If you work retail you can also tell when a Fool Moon (Full Moon) is close. You start to get customers that are really out there. Had on once tell me she had cameras and microphones embedded in her body and they transmitted everything she saw and heard directly to President Reagan. When I wemt out side that night and lloked there was a full moon.
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Old 11-25-2020, 02:05 PM   #59
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If you work retail you can also tell when a Fool Moon (Full Moon) is close. You start to get customers that are really out there. Had on once tell me she had cameras and microphones embedded in her body and they transmitted everything she saw and heard directly to President Reagan. When I wemt out side that night and lloked there was a full moon.
Apache
It ain't just retail, my brother, trust me. And it's not just the Fool Moon, either; we're five days out and they are comin' out of the woodwork.

(Shakes head. I would give a LOT of what I own to be able to take all 4 days of the "4-day weekend" off, man...)

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Old 11-26-2020, 08:12 PM   #60
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You aren't kidding. And October had two full moons.
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