Indie bookstores sue Amazon, Big 6, over e-book DRM

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Fbone

So is this an indirect way of forcing the removal of DRM from all ebooks?

No, it is a clumsy way to try to extort hush money.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

The answer to the second part is very simple: No they haven't.
Amazon do not have a monopoly over eBooks from the Big6 publishers.

But this is the accusation in the lawsuit.

[teh603]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Are you thinking of the Nook? The Kindle doesn't limit how much non-Amazon content you can put on it, all of the storage is available for whatever content you wish to put on it. The Nook (depending on model) limits the amount of storage for non-B&N content on it's internal memory (but doesn't limit stoage cards at all).

Originally Posted by j.p.s

What are you referring to when you write: "limited to a certain volume of non-Amazon content"?

Probably. I could've sworn the Kindle only had very limited non-Amazon storage, though..

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by teh603

Probably. I could've sworn the Kindle only had very limited non-Amazon storage, though..

No. They even give you cloud storage space for personal "documents". Like...oh, ebooks you buy elsewhere.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by teh603

Probably. I could've sworn the Kindle only had very limited non-Amazon storage, though..

They don't have a slot for flash cards, do they?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

But this is the accusation in the lawsuit.

But it's a silly accusation. A single counter-example is sufficient to disprove it.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by teh603

Probably. I could've sworn the Kindle only had very limited non-Amazon storage, though..

The Kindle makes no distinction, in terms of storage, between Amazon and non-Amazon content.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by HarryT

But it's a silly accusation. A single counter-example is sufficient to disprove it.

Of course it is. My point was that if we are having this discussion in the framework of the lawsuit this is the accusation.

Frankly, from what the B&M stores complained about I think that their inability to make a bigger impact on the ebook market has more to do with their lack of understanding about how DRM works than nefarious dealings between Amazon and the Big 6.

[koland]

Aren't the indie bookstore networks in bed with Kobo?

Their reader doesn't even let you get to the epub when downloaded, it keeps in locked up in a fragile database (just like christianbook.com now does for any "free" books you purchase, forcing you to only use their proprietary app to read them).

[pidgeon92]

Originally Posted by koland

Aren't the indie bookstore networks in bed with Kobo?

The independent bookstore in my neighborhood sells Kobo devices.

They used to have this sign in the window (I think it's gone, I believe they replaced this message with a "we sell Kobo devices" message):

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by koland

Aren't the indie bookstore networks in bed with Kobo?

Their reader doesn't even let you get to the epub when downloaded, it keeps in locked up in a fragile database (just like christianbook.com now does for any "free" books you purchase, forcing you to only use their proprietary app to read them).

As with B&N and Google, you need to download epub from your account page with a web browser. This file is at least portable between apps and devices that you have authorized with an Adobe ID (B&N flavor of Adobe DRM doesn't require AdobeID). Some vendors do not offer this option, however (Apple for example).

When delivered directly to the device or app (and either stored in a hidden partition or in some database or with some proprietary encryption), there is no transaction fee paid to apply Adobe DRM. So that is incentive for vendors to effectively 'roll their own' DRM.

I don't see the suit getting any traction, nor is it likely to advance the DRM-free 'movement'. I am hopeful we'll see more movement to DRM-free anyway.

I don't think the Kobo partnership is a great solution for indies or their customers (I'm not sure there is one), but at least that is something to try out. And I assume the indies involved in the suit are not participating.

[JoeD]

I may have misread this thread, but is the arguement that Amazon won't let them sell ebooks _for_ the kindle that _are_ drm'd but not actually sold by Amazon?

Where as the other platforms may support it due to using Adobe for their DRM so they don't need to sell via kobo to sell a DRM'd book that can be loaded onto the kobo?

If so, that would seem like a valid argument, but I'm not sure Amazon could be seen as doing anything wrong by not allowing it, unless/until they gain monopoly status.

Again, I've glossed over the thread as I'm short on time atm, but that's the impression I got.

If it's actually that they want to be able to sell ebooks for the kindle that are DRM free, then I'm as perplexed as everyone else. Unless there's more to it?

Edit: Merit wise, I can't see the case getting anywhere if it is as I mentioned above. Consider tablets for a similar thing, nobody can produce and sell Apps for the iPad/iPhone that are DRM protected without going through apple, in fact, you can't even sell unprotected apps so it's an even worse position than publishers are faced with on the Kindle.

[latepaul]

Originally Posted by JoeD

I may have misread this thread, but is the arguement that Amazon won't let them sell ebooks _for_ the kindle that _are_ drm'd but not actually sold by Amazon?

I think that's right.

Where as the other platforms may support it due to using Adobe for their DRM so they don't need to sell via kobo to sell a DRM'd book that can be loaded onto the kobo?

I think that's true too.

If so, that would seem like a valid argument, but I'm not sure Amazon could be seen as doing anything wrong by not allowing it, unless/until they gain monopoly status.

Well exactly but that's where the specifics of anti-competition laws come in. I'm not sure at what point it becomes a "monopoly" in those terms but Amazon the device manufacturer clearly have a large majority of the dedicated ereader market which gives Amazon the bookseller a huge advantage.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

It'll save the plaintiffs a ton of legal fees.

The plaintiffs? I thought that in class action cases, the lawyers seek out the plaintiffs and offer to represent them for free.

It's just ad copy, but the web site of the law firm pushing this makes it look like they know a little bit what they are doing:

http://www.blechercollins.com/Landmark-Cases/
http://www.blechercollins.com/Practi...-Actions.shtml


As far as the initial complaint being sloppy, I don't know what impact that will have. Do they get a chance to re-do their case as they go along, or do the defendants get to win on grounds the complaint didn't make sense?

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

As far as the initial complaint being sloppy, I don't know what impact that will have. Do they get a chance to re-do their case as they go along, or do the defendants get to win on grounds the complaint didn't make sense?

That is often the first step in any case; ask for summary dismissal with prejudice so they can't refile. It even gets granted once in a blue moon.