"Problems" with ePub from O'Reilly on Kobo Wifi?

[Cyberman tM]

I'm not sure if the fault really lies with the books from O'Reilly, or if it's the Kobo, or just random coincidence.
I didn't yet use ePub much, because so far most of my eBooks were PDF.

The "problems" aren't with formatting, though - that works great.

But chapter turns take ages. As does a change of font size.
Individual pages turn OK.

Font size changes even cause the device to either restart or hang itself up in an endless loop - which is even more annoying because I sometimes hit "down" instead of "right" when I hold it with my left hand.
Last time this happened, I just thought I'll just wait until it's done - today I pick it up and see the battery is empty :-/

Even if frozen it's not completely unresponsive - I can turn it off and on again, then the book usually is reset.


Does anyone know, is it's the devices/firmwares fault or the books? Could I perhaps reformat the books to avoid these problems?
Since O'Reilly eBooks are free of DRM, this would be possible.

Is there anything I should check the ePub for?

--

Device: Kobo Wifi, Software version 1.9 (r25373, Mar 29 2011)

[Actionman]

When I first got my Kobo I had similar problems with some free public domain books. Being conversant with computers I did some research and found Calibre and various other tools. I discovered the best fix for wayward epubs is to delete the css file and convert epub to epub in Calibre with settings you nominate. It took awhile to get my settings how I like them.. (blank line between paras, .5 em indent, remove first image, nominate separate cover and Meta Info, etc.

Once thats done I NEVER use the "Send to device" function in Calibre rather the "Save to disk" function using the Kobo as the disk. Never have a problem anymore with slow response.... one other thing I always do is make sure it splits on page breaks.... untick "Do not split on page breaks" as that allows faster parsing of chapters in the Kobo.

A

[kiwipippa]

Originally Posted by Actionman

Once thats done I NEVER use the "Send to device" function in Calibre rather the "Save to disk" function using the Kobo as the disk. Never have a problem anymore with slow response.... one other thing I always do is make sure it splits on page breaks.... untick "Do not split on page breaks" as that allows faster parsing of chapters in the Kobo.

A

Actionman, I'm interested in why you use "Save to disk". What difference does it make? I've never tried it - and didn't even realise you could use it.
Thanks

[Actionman]

Originally Posted by kiwipippa

Actionman, I'm interested in why you use "Save to disk". What difference does it make? I've never tried it - and didn't even realise you could use it.
Thanks

Mostly no difference at all...except if there is a glitch somewhere. If you think about it, firstly the computer has to recognize the device, then Calibre has to interact with the device as well. That's a couple of places where things can go wrong...EVERY bit of software has bugs, so by using save to disk I reduce the possibility of file corruption and other nasties....

... Also, recovering from a bad file copy (rare) is just a matter of delete and recopy. Recovering from a something where the software (Calibre/Plugin/Desktop App etc) has caused a system error on the Kobo is not a small matter.

A bad USB port, cable or connector can also promote errors in software function, whereas a simple copy (read/write) will gracefully fail.

I must add that this is not a recommendation for all...just the paranoid

Make sense?

A

[3d0g]

Originally Posted by Cyberman tM

I'm not sure if the fault really lies with the books from O'Reilly, or if it's the Kobo, or just random coincidence.

But chapter turns take ages. As does a change of font size.
Individual pages turn OK.

Many of the O'Reilly epubs have REALLY large chapters and complex formatting with tables, images, etc. It takes a while for the little kobo CPU to process.

[Cyberman tM]

Originally Posted by Actionman

I discovered the best fix for wayward epubs is to delete the css file and convert epub to epub in Calibre with settings you nominate.

Hm. Good suggestion. I'll take a look at the CSS file, perhaps I can remove some stuff.
Worth a try at least :-D

Originally Posted by 3d0g

Many of the O'Reilly epubs have REALLY large chapters and complex formatting with tables, images, etc. It takes a while for the little kobo CPU to process.

Yes, I can imagine that. Tables are bad on PCs as well.
But still, I can't imagine it takes THAT long - unless the entire book is rendered every time. (Which I'm currently assuming is what happens when I change font size.)

Besides, I don't think the Kobo CPU is that little. It's an ARM11/ARMv6 AFAIK. Better than the CoolEr.

[dmacmart]

Originally Posted by Cyberman tM

Font size changes even cause the device to either restart or hang itself up in an endless loop - which is even more annoying because I sometimes hit "down" instead of "right" when I hold it with my left hand.
Last time this happened, I just thought I'll just wait until it's done - today I pick it up and see the battery is empty :-/

If I accidentally hit the font size button instead of page turn, sometimes it freezes. But I've found that clicking one of the left buttons (Menu/Shop etc) then back, will force the new font to take effect. Of course I need to then undo the new font, but this seems to kick-start it.

It seems this only happens with ePubs (not Kobo-formatted books) but that might just be coincidence.

[Cyberman tM]

Originally Posted by dmacmart

If I accidentally hit the font size button instead of page turn, sometimes it freezes. But I've found that clicking one of the left buttons (Menu/Shop etc) then back, will force the new font to take effect. Of course I need to then undo the new font, but this seems to kick-start it.

Worth a try.

It seems this only happens with ePubs (not Kobo-formatted books) but that might just be coincidence.

It might be coincidence, but I don't think so anymore.

Taking up Actionman's advice, I took a peak into one of the ePubs - the CSS file IS horribly large and contains lots of instructions.
Also some OTF fonts

And indeed, replacing it with standard Calibre CSS helps.

Hm. I guess I'll have to cross-post in my other thread to update it with this information. It does explain a lot.

[kiwipippa]

Originally Posted by Actionman

Mostly no difference at all...except if there is a glitch somewhere. If you think about it, firstly the computer has to recognize the device, then Calibre has to interact with the device as well. That's a couple of places where things can go wrong...EVERY bit of software has bugs, so by using save to disk I reduce the possibility of file corruption and other nasties....

... Also, recovering from a bad file copy (rare) is just a matter of delete and recopy. Recovering from a something where the software (Calibre/Plugin/Desktop App etc) has caused a system error on the Kobo is not a small matter.

A bad USB port, cable or connector can also promote errors in software function, whereas a simple copy (read/write) will gracefully fail.

I must add that this is not a recommendation for all...just the paranoid

Make sense?

A

Thanks ActionMan, a good explanation, I'll give it a try. I rely so much on calibre that if anything serious did go wrong I'd be up the creek. And I don't fancy mucking around with my kobo either - I'm not techy enough to be able to fix these things.

So this may be a good insurance policy. Thanks

[3d0g]

Originally Posted by Cyberman tM

Besides, I don't think the Kobo CPU is that little. It's an ARM11/ARMv6 AFAIK. Better than the CoolEr.

Well, it takes a while for my 2.66GHz Core 2 Duo Mac to render a 50+ MB html doc (which is essentially what O'Reilly epubs are). Stands to reason the little ARM CPU is going to need some time.

Simply saying I've got a lot of O'Reilly books and I know to be patient with them - especially on chapter changes.

[Cyberman tM]

Originally Posted by 3d0g

Well, it takes a while for my 2.66GHz Core 2 Duo Mac to render a 50+ MB html doc (which is essentially what O'Reilly epubs are). Stands to reason the little ARM CPU is going to need some time.

Simply saying I've got a lot of O'Reilly books and I know to be patient with them - especially on chapter changes.

Yah, I'll have to adjust my earlier statement.
The CPU surely isn't weak, but the CSS of the books are about 10K in size and have at least 300 lines of actual code (about 600 including empty lines and comments).

I see now why it would take so long. The next step then is to find out if there are a few statements that can be singled out and removed to improve performance.
Small hope, though. I guess it'll be best to ask that in the ePub subforum - fits better there than here, even if it's about the Kobo, I think.

[3d0g]

Originally Posted by Cyberman tM

Yah, I'll have to adjust my earlier statement.
The CPU surely isn't weak, but the CSS of the books are about 10K in size and have at least 300 lines of actual code (about 600 including empty lines and comments).

I wonder if there's a way to cleanly split an epub into smaller chunks...

[moffattm]

Originally Posted by 3d0g

I wonder if there's a way to cleanly split an epub into smaller chunks...

I thought epubs were split into smaller chunks. The epub file is really just a zip file that contains several other files. One file is the CSS and then there's one or more HTML files. Many of the epubs that I've seen have each chapter as a separate HTML file, which in theory should make it easier for the Kobo. Of course some publishers may just put everything into one giant HTML file, which would mean a lot more processing for the Kobo.

A tool such as Sigil can let you look at the individual files and edit them.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by 3d0g

I wonder if there's a way to cleanly split an epub into smaller chunks...

Sigil can do this if you wish.

Dale

[3d0g]

Originally Posted by moffattm

I thought epubs were split into smaller chunks. The epub file is really just a zip file that contains several other files. One file is the CSS and then there's one or more HTML files. Many of the epubs that I've seen have each chapter as a separate HTML file, which in theory should make it easier for the Kobo. Of course some publishers may just put everything into one giant HTML file, which would mean a lot more processing for the Kobo.

A tool such as Sigil can let you look at the individual files and edit them.

Of course. My point was, perhaps the load time could be further reduced by splitting up complex / heavily imaged chapters. I did not know Sigil could split and update the TOC.