Question about hierarchical columns...

dkplayaclub · 06-27-2016, 12:31 PM

I decided it would be nice to have a custom column to view books based on awards won. A text column as tags didn't work so well but I found that making a hierarchical column and tagging in this format "Award Name.Winner -or- Nominee.year".
This actually works really great, but I am running into one small problem now. Some books have won multiple awards, but I can't seem to find a way to tag them with multiple tags in the hierarchical structure. Is this maybe something to do with the columns "made from other columns"?

fidvo · 06-27-2016, 01:10 PM

A tag-like column can be hierarchical. That will allow you to put multiple hierarchical values into a single field.

dkplayaclub · 06-27-2016, 01:36 PM

Can you explain this more? I was not able to make a tag column that is also hierarchical. Where is the option I am missing?

kovidgoyal · 06-27-2016, 01:41 PM

http://manual.calibre-ebook.com/sub_groups.html

dkplayaclub · 06-27-2016, 01:52 PM

This is the exact guide I used to set up the column I am trying to use now. Like I said, I must be missing something. I can make my tags in an orderly tree, but I cannot make them fall onto two spaces on that tree.
For example, "Dune" by Frank Herbert won both the Hugo Award and the Nebula Award in 1966. I currently have "Nebula Award.Best Novel.Winner.1966" in my custom column. In the hierarchy, I want this book to also show in the tree as if it were also tagged "Hugo Award.Best Novel.Winner.1966", but I can't get that to work. Separating terms doesn't seem to work with a comma or any other separator I've tried. It just changes the last branch of the hierarchy and creates it's own branch.
Does that make sense?

eschwartz · 06-27-2016, 02:21 PM

No, it doesn't make sense.

What is the exact text you are trying in the "#awards" field of type "Comma-separated text, like tags, shown in the tag browser"?

It should be:

Code:

Hugo Award.Best Novel.Winner.1966, Nebula Award.Best Novel.Winner.1966

dkplayaclub · 06-27-2016, 02:30 PM

I would also think that should work, but it doesn't. If I input exactly "Hugo Award.Best Novel.Winner.1966, Nebula Award.Best Novel.Winner.1966" into the field I get a tree like this "Hugo Award ---> Best Novel ---> Winner ---> 1996, Nebula Award ---> Best Novel ---> Winner ---> 1996"
Not sure why, but as I said the separators don't seem to work. It only sees breaks in one tree and only at the periods.

eschwartz · 06-27-2016, 03:00 PM

Oh, so that is what you meant by "It just changes the last branch of the hierarchy and creates it's own branch" (I didn't really know what you meant by that).

I guess despite your protests you are, in fact, NOT actually using a column of type "Comma-separated text, like tags, shown in the tag browser". Fix that.

dkplayaclub · 06-27-2016, 03:04 PM

Which brings me back to my original issue. Columns of type "Comma-separated text, like tags, shown in the tag browser" don't work either, unless I'm missing something. I would end up with a separate tag for every book.

eschwartz · 06-27-2016, 03:08 PM

Wait, so you actually know perfectly well that you are using the wrong type of column and yet you still think it should work anyway?

I give up. You don't want to try the one thing that every other person in this thread has told you to use -- deriving directly from the authoritative manual -- and apparently nothing I say can convince you.

I shan't bother anymore, then.

dkplayaclub · 06-27-2016, 03:18 PM

I think the problem must be that what I want to do is not possible. If not that, I am just failing to communicate exactly what I need.
In a "Comma-separated text, like tags, shown in the tag browser" type column I can not get a tree which is what I want. Are you telling me that I CAN do that?
When using the other type of column, I am unable to fit any one book into multiple spots.
I appreciate the patience, but I'm not using the "wrong kind" of column. I have said that I've tried both and cannot get the behavior I want from either.

eschwartz · 06-27-2016, 04:07 PM

I am telling you that according to the manual you can do that, and my experience matches the manual.

Quite simply, a Comma-separated text, like tags column will by definition ALWAYS split on commas, as the definition implies.
And a hierarchical column will ALWAYS create hierarchy subgroups splitting on periods.

And you have said that your copy of calibre is not doing so, although you have not said that the behavior when you try is the same behavior as the expected behavior when you use the wrong column type (as I explained in the previous two posts)... so for all I know your problem when (claim) you use the correct column type may be something completely different, which you have not told us about and we therefore cannot be expected to help with.

Of course, it is possible, though highly unlikely, that you are running a copy of calibre that has been sneakily modified for the express purpose of NOT doing so, and thereby confusing you... but failing that you are simply mistaken.

Would it help if I gave you a picture of me doing the thing you just told me is impossible?

One book. One column, of type "Comma-separated text, like tags, shown in the tag browser, listed in Preferences as being hierarchical. Two comma-separated tags, as specified above.

Terisa de morgan · 06-27-2016, 04:09 PM

eschwartz has beaten me

but...

Sorry, but I think you're missing something. I've got a hierarchical column, themes, which type is "Comma-separated text, like tags, shown in the tag browser", and I have a nice tree as Animal.Dog.Clinic., and more than one value. But I've define this column as a category with hierarchical elements at Preferences -> Look and Feel -> Tag Browser.

dkplayaclub · 06-27-2016, 04:15 PM

You are right to be frustrated. Now that I've figured it out, I feel rather foolish.
Though it was working in my original column, I forgot to set the option for tag browser on the new columns I was creating.
Thank you for having the patience to stick it out with me. Once again, Calibre is more than capable of what I am trying to do and I'm just messing up.

eschwartz · 06-27-2016, 04:31 PM

Next time, when the creator of calibre and multiple experienced users tell you that something is possible and refuse to back down from their belief that it is possible, double-check that you aren't making a mistake somewhere. It really is the most probable explanation.
Especially since everyone makes mistakes. When in doubt, double-check your work!

Glad to see you finally figured it out and got it working.

06-27-2016, 12:31 PM	#1
dkplayaclub Member Posts: 24 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2015 Device: Kindle Paperwhite 3	Question about hierarchical columns... I decided it would be nice to have a custom column to view books based on awards won. A text column as tags didn't work so well but I found that making a hierarchical column and tagging in this format "Award Name.Winner -or- Nominee.year". This actually works really great, but I am running into one small problem now. Some books have won multiple awards, but I can't seem to find a way to tag them with multiple tags in the hierarchical structure. Is this maybe something to do with the columns "made from other columns"?

06-27-2016, 02:21 PM	#6
eschwartz Ex-Helpdesk Junkie Posts: 19,422 Karma: 85397180 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)	No, it doesn't make sense. What is the exact text you are trying in the "#awards" field of type "Comma-separated text, like tags, shown in the tag browser"? It should be: Code: Hugo Award.Best Novel.Winner.1966, Nebula Award.Best Novel.Winner.1966

06-27-2016, 04:07 PM	#12
eschwartz Ex-Helpdesk Junkie Posts: 19,422 Karma: 85397180 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)	I am telling you that according to the manual you can do that, and my experience matches the manual. Quite simply, a Comma-separated text, like tags column will by definition ALWAYS split on commas, as the definition implies. And a hierarchical column will ALWAYS create hierarchy subgroups splitting on periods. And you have said that your copy of calibre is not doing so, although you have not said that the behavior when you try is the same behavior as the expected behavior when you use the wrong column type (as I explained in the previous two posts)... so for all I know your problem when (claim) you use the correct column type may be something completely different, which you have not told us about and we therefore cannot be expected to help with. Of course, it is possible, though highly unlikely, that you are running a copy of calibre that has been sneakily modified for the express purpose of NOT doing so, and thereby confusing you... but failing that you are simply mistaken. Would it help if I gave you a picture of me doing the thing you just told me is impossible? One book. One column, of type "Comma-separated text, like tags, shown in the tag browser, listed in Preferences as being hierarchical. Two comma-separated tags, as specified above. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by eschwartz; 06-27-2016 at 04:14 PM.

06-27-2016, 04:09 PM	#13
Terisa de morgan Grand Sorcerer Posts: 6,233 Karma: 11768331 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Madrid, Spain Device: Kobo Clara/Aura One/Forma,XiaoMI 5, iPad, Huawei MediaPad, YotaPhone 2	eschwartz has beaten me but... Sorry, but I think you're missing something. I've got a hierarchical column, themes, which type is "Comma-separated text, like tags, shown in the tag browser", and I have a nice tree as Animal.Dog.Clinic., and more than one value. But I've define this column as a category with hierarchical elements at Preferences -> Look and Feel -> Tag Browser. Last edited by BetterRed; 06-27-2016 at 09:06 PM. Reason: BR - add Look and Feel

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06-27-2016, 01:10 PM	#2
fidvo Addict Posts: 296 Karma: 1599870 Join Date: Jun 2012 Device: none	A tag-like column can be hierarchical. That will allow you to put multiple hierarchical values into a single field.

06-27-2016, 01:36 PM	#3
dkplayaclub Member Posts: 24 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2015 Device: Kindle Paperwhite 3	Can you explain this more? I was not able to make a tag column that is also hierarchical. Where is the option I am missing?

06-27-2016, 01:41 PM	#4
kovidgoyal creator of calibre Posts: 43,858 Karma: 22666666 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mumbai, India Device: Various	http://manual.calibre-ebook.com/sub_groups.html

06-27-2016, 01:52 PM	#5
dkplayaclub Member Posts: 24 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2015 Device: Kindle Paperwhite 3	This is the exact guide I used to set up the column I am trying to use now. Like I said, I must be missing something. I can make my tags in an orderly tree, but I cannot make them fall onto two spaces on that tree. For example, "Dune" by Frank Herbert won both the Hugo Award and the Nebula Award in 1966. I currently have "Nebula Award.Best Novel.Winner.1966" in my custom column. In the hierarchy, I want this book to also show in the tree as if it were also tagged "Hugo Award.Best Novel.Winner.1966", but I can't get that to work. Separating terms doesn't seem to work with a comma or any other separator I've tried. It just changes the last branch of the hierarchy and creates it's own branch. Does that make sense?

06-27-2016, 02:30 PM	#7
dkplayaclub Member Posts: 24 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2015 Device: Kindle Paperwhite 3	I would also think that should work, but it doesn't. If I input exactly "Hugo Award.Best Novel.Winner.1966, Nebula Award.Best Novel.Winner.1966" into the field I get a tree like this "Hugo Award ---> Best Novel ---> Winner ---> 1996, Nebula Award ---> Best Novel ---> Winner ---> 1996" Not sure why, but as I said the separators don't seem to work. It only sees breaks in one tree and only at the periods.

06-27-2016, 03:00 PM	#8
eschwartz Ex-Helpdesk Junkie Posts: 19,422 Karma: 85397180 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)	Oh, so that is what you meant by "It just changes the last branch of the hierarchy and creates it's own branch" (I didn't really know what you meant by that). I guess despite your protests you are, in fact, NOT actually using a column of type "Comma-separated text, like tags, shown in the tag browser". Fix that.

06-27-2016, 03:04 PM	#9
dkplayaclub Member Posts: 24 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2015 Device: Kindle Paperwhite 3	Which brings me back to my original issue. Columns of type "Comma-separated text, like tags, shown in the tag browser" don't work either, unless I'm missing something. I would end up with a separate tag for every book.

06-27-2016, 03:08 PM	#10
eschwartz Ex-Helpdesk Junkie Posts: 19,422 Karma: 85397180 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)	Wait, so you actually know perfectly well that you are using the wrong type of column and yet you still think it should work anyway? I give up. You don't want to try the one thing that every other person in this thread has told you to use -- deriving directly from the authoritative manual -- and apparently nothing I say can convince you. I shan't bother anymore, then.

06-27-2016, 03:18 PM	#11
dkplayaclub Member Posts: 24 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2015 Device: Kindle Paperwhite 3	I think the problem must be that what I want to do is not possible. If not that, I am just failing to communicate exactly what I need. In a "Comma-separated text, like tags, shown in the tag browser" type column I can not get a tree which is what I want. Are you telling me that I CAN do that? When using the other type of column, I am unable to fit any one book into multiple spots. I appreciate the patience, but I'm not using the "wrong kind" of column. I have said that I've tried both and cannot get the behavior I want from either.

06-27-2016, 04:15 PM	#14
dkplayaclub Member Posts: 24 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2015 Device: Kindle Paperwhite 3	You are right to be frustrated. Now that I've figured it out, I feel rather foolish. Though it was working in my original column, I forgot to set the option for tag browser on the new columns I was creating. Thank you for having the patience to stick it out with me. Once again, Calibre is more than capable of what I am trying to do and I'm just messing up.

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06-27-2016, 04:31 PM	#15
eschwartz Ex-Helpdesk Junkie Posts: 19,422 Karma: 85397180 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)	Next time, when the creator of calibre and multiple experienced users tell you that something is possible and refuse to back down from their belief that it is possible, double-check that you aren't making a mistake somewhere. It really is the most probable explanation. Especially since everyone makes mistakes. When in doubt, double-check your work! Glad to see you finally figured it out and got it working.